COMREX BRIK -WILL IT ACT AS WINDOWS MEDIA ENCODER?

gtomas · Feb 4, 2011

gunterm said:
The backend for Flash streaming is almost always HE-AAC v2, I know CC uses that for the stations I've listened to.

Audio encoding for Flash can be MP3, ADPCM, AAC and HE-AAC... The user doesn't really know or need to care. CC would do a much better service for their on-line listener if they were to cash more $$ and increase the bitrates of their streams (and switch to AAC-LC encoding). One thing about on-line streaming is that it can sound better than FM broadcast, but most stations choose to sound much inferior on-line...

Thankfully, there are exceptions:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio/2010/10/hd_sound_for_the_electric_proms.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio/2010/10/launching_hd_sound.html

Regards,
Goran Tomas

Goat Rodeo Cowboy · Feb 4, 2011

Goran Tomas said:
Thankfully, there are exceptions:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio/2010/10/hd_sound_for_the_electric_proms.html

Thank you for the link! I've been listening for a couple of hours and found it quite enjoyable.

I have hinted at this question before, but let me ask it again, maybe another way.

So I successfully capture someone's stream. Some of them give information on the screen about technology. But some don't. Is there a way I can peek and poke around my computer and figure out what technology I am receiving?

I fought for months trying to get the most common of streams and finally learned that maybe my driver wasn't "registered". Went to the RUN prompt, ran a command and put the driver into the registry and wonderful things happened.

My computer is a bit of a laboratory for me. I download trial versions of things, try them, remove them. Sometimes junk gets left behind. Sometimes things get removed or unregistered that should not have. (I was able to get a hint of what I was looking for in this case because my wife's computer is not subject these all these silly chases and trial copies. When these streams would work on her machine but not mine, I was able to start narrowing things down.) But when you don't know what technology a stream is using, how would one Google for hints for troubleshooting?

SRP · Feb 4, 2011

Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
My computer is a bit of a laboratory for me. I download trial versions of things, try them, remove them. Sometimes junk gets left behind. Sometimes things get removed or unregistered that should not have. (I was able to get a hint of what I was looking for in this case because my wife's computer is not subject these all these silly chases and trial copies. When these streams would work on her machine but not mine, I was able to start narrowing things down.) But when you don't know what technology a stream is using, how would one Google for hints for troubleshooting?

First of all, it's a good idea to back up your computer BEFORE putting in those trial/free programs in case uninstalling them screws things up. Ideally, it's best to do your "lab word" on a separate computer with a CLEAN OS installation - but sometimes that's just not possible.

Now for the stream question: With an embedded player, SOMETIMES you can use the browser's "View source" option to find the HTML code that loads the stream. The extension can tell you a lot about what technology is being used.

Another option is to get one of those apps that traces every TCP/IP connection going out or coming in to your computer. Google is your friend there.

Goat Rodeo Cowboy · Feb 4, 2011

SRP said:
First of all, it's a good idea to back up your computer BEFORE putting in those trial/free programs in case uninstalling them screws things up. Ideally, it's best to do your "lab word" on a separate computer with a CLEAN OS installation - but sometimes that's just not possible.

Hopefully I now have the space to maybe house a second machine for special purposes. How many times have I given similar advice to other people. I have audio editing software. I have photo editing software. I now have video editiing software (a new venture for me). I have web-site authoring software. Programming software (Basic and C++). Office professional. It takes SIX HOURS to do a back-up. It's either gamble now and then or just forget about being curious about new stuff.

In 25 years of this kind of lifestyle I have been visited by virus/malware twice. Both were unpleasant experiences but educational.

SRP said:
Now for the stream question: With an embedded player, SOMETIMES you can use the browser's "View source" option to find the HTML code that loads the stream. The extension can tell you a lot about what technology is being used.

Doing a bit of web building, I knew to look at SOURCE when an embedded player was part of the scheme, but there are times that does not reveal useful information.

SRP said:
Another option is to get one of those apps that traces every TCP/IP connection going out or coming in to your computer. Google is your friend there.

I may get around to that. The last time I went in search of software of that nature I didn't look in the right places. The one I really wanted to find was something that would meter how much data goes in and out of my machine. Curious to know what it would do to me if my ISP were to go to rates based on "metered data".

I am enjoying the BBC as linked by Goran Thomas in his message. Spent about three hours on BBC-2. I just now switched over to BBC-3 and the music there is classical.

Both feeds: as promised by Goran. Top drawer audio quality. "Live Performance" symphonic orchestra with applause, an occasional cough, and other human audio-flotsam seldom heard so brilliantly.

xmusicmatt · Feb 4, 2011

comrex said:
except on iPhones, iPod touches and iPads

iPhones will play HE-AAC just fine..Just not via a 'flash' player..

comrex · Feb 7, 2011

Yes, but the response was to Goran who suggests that flash-based streams are most universal. (to his credit, he did qualify it to desktops but that's not terribly fair in a modern environment).

Most universal is definitely MP3. Best audio quality vs. bandwidth is HE-AAC. It's too bad a choice must be made between them.

SRP · Feb 7, 2011

GRC - another option for running your trial stuff (if you can't or are unable to backup) is virtualization apps like VBox, VMWare, etc.

Goat Rodeo Cowboy · Feb 7, 2011

thanks for the suggestion, SRP.

I see two basic concepts we all deal with in backups. (1) Are you going to do backups and just walk the high wire with no safety net? (2) How often.

Here is the transition I am making. There was a time when we bought a computer and some of us based our choice on the ability to upgrade the machine. Then rapid changes began coming that significantly kill that concept. We went from PS2 plugs for the mouse and the keyboard to USB. They change with regularity the format and the slots for memory. Expansion card slots keep changing. The latest change I dealt with was the new SATA hard-drives. And in using the software compable to "Ghost" that comes with new hard drives to move EVERYTHING from an existing HD to a newer, faster, bigger drive.... including the boot sector, etc. I realized that I can replicate an entire HD must faster (programs and all) than I can run a back-up of my DATA ONLY using traditional back-up software. Apparently SATA drives do stream the data much faster.

I just bought one more drive on sale (considerable cheaper than buying a whole computer.... even the trailing edge closeouts I sometimes purchase. I am getting ready to do my first SATA to SATA full drive transfer. My dream is to stay on a cycle of moving back and forth like that at least once a month.

But.... this tangent is a bit off the main topic of encoding sound for streaming on the Internet. I am still looking for ways to identify the protocol being used by people who stream audio. I appreciate the hint and will take a look at VBox and VMWare.

The other big annoyance in my life.... I have this "man cave" of a room where all my interests, hobbies and toys live. That means I have a voice-over studio arrangement right in the middle of all this other flotsam in the room. (The other stuff, including genealogy files and shelves of books do marvelous things for the acoustics of the studio function.) My tweaks are now down to one focus: the blooming computer fan noise! I will probably acquire one additional computer either because it is super quiet, or because I want to put it somewhere on the other side of the wall and use it primarily for recording. Maybe it can become my "test pilot" machine for trial software. I see this machine having a small hard drive which means full disk transfers would be super quick. I'm open to suggestions on a suitable machine. I have used my wife's "net-book" machine but my choice of sound-cards is quite limited when you go USB only. I take her machine to do on-site recordings. If I go record a pipe organ concernt, I like to record at 96/24 saved as a 32bit file. Most USBs assume 44.1/16 is good enough for anybody.

gtomas · Feb 9, 2011

comrex said:
Yes, but the response was to Goran who suggests that flash-based streams are most universal. (to his credit, he did qualify it to desktops but that's not terribly fair in a modern environment).

What I typically do is set-up Flash streaming (a Flash player incorporated into the station's web site) for the desktop PCs, MACs and Unix's and then also an IceCast server for the iPhone and people who like to use stand-alone players (either on desktops or other mobile devices).

Here in Croatia we have a free iPhone application called Slooshaj (http://www.slooshaj.com/default.aspx?id=12) that lists all radio station web streams and works great with IceCast streams. The IceCast server is free and easy to set-up and that's my solution until the Apple vs Flash war is resolved (or HTML5 becomes a viable universal standard).

Most universal is definitely MP3. Best audio quality vs. bandwidth is HE-AAC. It's too bad a choice must be made between them.

Definitely a fair assessment, but I would add AAC for best audio quality at higher bitrates.

Regards,
Goran Tomas

gtomas · Feb 17, 2011

comrex said:
WMP12 decodes HE-AAC just fine. There used to be separate licensing requirements for the HE portion from the patent holders but that has all been consolidated.

Well their Expression Encoder supported only AAC thus far, but they have just released Service Pack 1 for Expression 4 that adds HE-AAC encoding as well.

Regards,
Goran Tomas