WBEN #1 station is the market by a landslide! Entercom Buffalo with over 30 share of the listening audience in the Fall book!
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Congratulations To Entercom Buffalo!
- Thread starter superset weekend
- Start date
superset weekend said:
Not sure where you're getting that 30 share figure, Superset. Is that a typo? Indeed, WBEN's share, at least 12+, puts it back at number one. But the station is not topping a 30 share.
No major surprises in the Fall book. The Lake's number are at an all time low. I'm thinking WHTT probably siphoned away listeners who had been tuning into the Lake. Also WHTT may have had an impact on its sister station, 97 Rock. WGRF's share was much lower than it was in Fall 2008. Perhaps the Bills' poor season was a factor. But I'm wondering if WHTT's classic hits format is also a reason for the 97 Rock decline.
The Fall ratings, even though only Persons 12+ and nothing more than fodder to be analyzed by the geekiest of the geeky who know that Persons 25-54 is the holy grail of ratings, are nonetheless curious. That WBEN is up 2.5 shares from Summer 09 and .6 from Fall 08 while WYRK is down more than three shares from Summer 09 and nearly two shares from Fall 08might indicate that pick-up truck drivin' folks preferred to hear the spoken word rather than songs.
WYRK’s softest book couldn’t have come at a worse time as Regent teeters on bankruptcy. Might this tempt Regent management to cut expenses and slice a live body from one of WYRK’s previously unaffected dayparts? That would be penny wise, pound foolish, but some managers know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
WBUF seems to be inching toward the drain, but what does it matter? The station has not a live body on the air. Down from Summer 09 and Fall 08, its Jack’s weakest 12+ showing in a while. Hey Jack, call Slick Tom.
Some folks may be scratching their chestnuts because Star and WJYE, the Christmas Music champs, are down from their Fall 08 levels. Star is down .1 from its Summer 09 share. Could WJYE and Star 12+ be soft because the Fall 09 book ended December 9th, earlier than Arbitron’s Fall 08 end date? WJYE and Star went All Christmas on November 16th and had only three and a half weeks of All Christmas in the Fall 09 book, with only three weekends to expose the product. Weekends and middays are especially important for All Christmas TSL. Then again, it’s only 12+ we’re looking at here and WJYE and Star could have impressive 25-54 shares, just as impressive as Fall 08.
What happened to 97 Rock? It's the Classic Rocker’s softest Fall-Football book in memory, off 1.5 shares from Fall 08. This too could be due to the Fall 09 book ending “earlier” than the Fall 08 book. Sure, the Bills 6-10 record didn’t help matters. But traditionally, radio stations that hold the PBP rights perform quite well when the team sucks. The Bills games sold out and the local TV blackouts were lifted. Three games, December 13th, 20th and 27th fell outside of the Fall book. Another strike for 97 Rock.
Phil speculated that “Classic Rock” might have been hurt by “Classic Hits.” Could be. Each station shares songs, eras and listeners with the other.
Another consideration: Slick Tom Tiberi has been gone from the 97 Rock nighttime line-up for more than a year. His absence could have hurt 97's night ratings as well as morning drive ratings. Radios not tuned to 97 Rock when turned off at 10 p.m. were on other stations when turned on the following morning.
But what station derived benefit from 97 Rock’s loss? WGR, possibly. It went from 2.4 to 4.8 Summer to Fall 09, and up from 4.5 Fall 08. The Sabres are a big part of WGR's success. 97 Rock being voicetracked from 7-midnight may have helped WGR. 97 Rock may have been hurt because Larry Norton contributes to the morning show via ISDN from Florida. One thing’s certain, the Lake didn’t gain any listeners as a result of 97 Rock’s wobble. The Lake is down from its Summer 09 and Fall 08 shares. The Lake's 1.7 has to be its shallowest performance ever. Don't expect any changes. What do you do with the weakest FM signal in the market? This could be the ideal time for the Lake to flip to Adult Album Alternative. 97 Rock is squeezing the Lake on one side and WHTT is squeezing it on the other. What's left in the tube? Apparently, not much.
WECK is doing an admirable job, but having a .5 and being tied with WJJL, a station that’s on life support run by a debtor-in-possession, is unsettling. The ultimate travesty may be WWKB, a 50 thousand watt flamethrower with less than a 1 share. It’s very likely you never thought you’d see the day.
WYRK’s softest book couldn’t have come at a worse time as Regent teeters on bankruptcy. Might this tempt Regent management to cut expenses and slice a live body from one of WYRK’s previously unaffected dayparts? That would be penny wise, pound foolish, but some managers know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
WBUF seems to be inching toward the drain, but what does it matter? The station has not a live body on the air. Down from Summer 09 and Fall 08, its Jack’s weakest 12+ showing in a while. Hey Jack, call Slick Tom.
Some folks may be scratching their chestnuts because Star and WJYE, the Christmas Music champs, are down from their Fall 08 levels. Star is down .1 from its Summer 09 share. Could WJYE and Star 12+ be soft because the Fall 09 book ended December 9th, earlier than Arbitron’s Fall 08 end date? WJYE and Star went All Christmas on November 16th and had only three and a half weeks of All Christmas in the Fall 09 book, with only three weekends to expose the product. Weekends and middays are especially important for All Christmas TSL. Then again, it’s only 12+ we’re looking at here and WJYE and Star could have impressive 25-54 shares, just as impressive as Fall 08.
What happened to 97 Rock? It's the Classic Rocker’s softest Fall-Football book in memory, off 1.5 shares from Fall 08. This too could be due to the Fall 09 book ending “earlier” than the Fall 08 book. Sure, the Bills 6-10 record didn’t help matters. But traditionally, radio stations that hold the PBP rights perform quite well when the team sucks. The Bills games sold out and the local TV blackouts were lifted. Three games, December 13th, 20th and 27th fell outside of the Fall book. Another strike for 97 Rock.
Phil speculated that “Classic Rock” might have been hurt by “Classic Hits.” Could be. Each station shares songs, eras and listeners with the other.
Another consideration: Slick Tom Tiberi has been gone from the 97 Rock nighttime line-up for more than a year. His absence could have hurt 97's night ratings as well as morning drive ratings. Radios not tuned to 97 Rock when turned off at 10 p.m. were on other stations when turned on the following morning.
But what station derived benefit from 97 Rock’s loss? WGR, possibly. It went from 2.4 to 4.8 Summer to Fall 09, and up from 4.5 Fall 08. The Sabres are a big part of WGR's success. 97 Rock being voicetracked from 7-midnight may have helped WGR. 97 Rock may have been hurt because Larry Norton contributes to the morning show via ISDN from Florida. One thing’s certain, the Lake didn’t gain any listeners as a result of 97 Rock’s wobble. The Lake is down from its Summer 09 and Fall 08 shares. The Lake's 1.7 has to be its shallowest performance ever. Don't expect any changes. What do you do with the weakest FM signal in the market? This could be the ideal time for the Lake to flip to Adult Album Alternative. 97 Rock is squeezing the Lake on one side and WHTT is squeezing it on the other. What's left in the tube? Apparently, not much.
WECK is doing an admirable job, but having a .5 and being tied with WJJL, a station that’s on life support run by a debtor-in-possession, is unsettling. The ultimate travesty may be WWKB, a 50 thousand watt flamethrower with less than a 1 share. It’s very likely you never thought you’d see the day.
When are you ever wrong? Could be a severe wobble, a result of WHTT returning to Classic Hits, poor diary placement and return. Hell, coulda been caused by huntin' season. Hard to say by looking at Persons 12+. WYRK is an excellent Country station, one of the best in America. The jocks ain't chatty. They're knowledgeable and slick. The music is always up front and a priority. So in your case Mr. Big A, this may be a first. OMG! Mark the date.TheBigA said:
Element9 said:
Your post said that the WYRK listeners switched to WBEN. I'm just offering another alternative.
There are lots of possible reasons for ratings to drop. The net result, however, is that ad rates are based on those numbers. So it will mean less money coming in. Or they increase the number of spots. How can that not have an effect on budgets and staffing?
I suspect that some of WYRK's missing numbers fattened WHTT. WHTT had their best book 12+ since the last time they were Classic Hits. Some real momentum there. It will be interesting to see if they can maintain it with less-than-stellar VT mid-days and Tesh at night.
And, Big, when was the last time you were in Buffalo listening to what's going on here? A little hard to get the flavor of what's really happening unless you're aware of all the things going on in the market.
And, Big, when was the last time you were in Buffalo listening to what's going on here? A little hard to get the flavor of what's really happening unless you're aware of all the things going on in the market.
SirRoxalot said:
I'm not discussing the "flavor" of what's going on there. I'm questioning the assumption that YRK lost listeners to WBEN or WHTT. I'm also questioning the assumption that YRK listeners drive pick-up trucks and hunt. I listen to country and I don't own a pick up, nor do I hunt.
You guys think that if one station's ratings goes up, and another's goes down, that the listeners from one station went to the other. That's bad logic. Radio listeners have lots of choices. They can do things that don't involve radio at all. So listening patterns can change in ways that affect ratings without there being a simple transference of listeners from one station to another. This is not to say that country doesn't share listeners with talk or classic rock. It does, and there are details in the ratings book that will show that. But without that specific data (and one doesn't have to live in Buffalo to get it), one can't make those assumptions.
What you don't get from "the book", that the boots-on-the-ground people get, are the comments from people who gravitated to country when WHTT turned into a flat out AC station - with a female focus - after evolving from oldies to classic hits. WHTT ended up in a squeeze between a successful 25-44 targeted AC and a successful 35-54 targeted AC. The oldies-classic hits audience was essentially disenfranchised. Some went to the 35-54 target AC - who expanded their offerings for the upper end of that demo. Some went to WLKK, which is a bastardization of classic hits, AAA, classic rock, and heaven knows what else.
WHTT's return to classic hits certainly affected several stations in the market. If your contention is correct, then there should be a drop in total listening in the market. I haven't seen that so far, although TSL ain't what it used to be.
Of course, 12+ numbers don't tell the same story as demographic breakouts do. Some stations that seem "soft" 12+ are actually doing very well. Some that look great 12+ have problems with the demos that they're getting.
WHTT's return to classic hits certainly affected several stations in the market. If your contention is correct, then there should be a drop in total listening in the market. I haven't seen that so far, although TSL ain't what it used to be.
Of course, 12+ numbers don't tell the same story as demographic breakouts do. Some stations that seem "soft" 12+ are actually doing very well. Some that look great 12+ have problems with the demos that they're getting.
TheBigA said:
I wrote: "That WBEN is up 2.5 shares from Summer 09 and .6 from Fall 08 while WYRK is down more than three shares from Summer 09 and nearly two shares from Fall 08 might indicate that pick-up truck drivin' folks preferred to hear the spoken word rather than songs."
Shall we parse?
Might, meaning "could?" Conjecture.
My original post also said, "The Fall ratings, even though only Persons 12+ and nothing more than fodder to be analyzed by the geekiest of the geeky who know that Persons 25-54 is the holy grail of ratings, are nonetheless curious."
As to the pick-up trucks and hunting: Flavor, humor and metaphor. Show us your sense of humor along with that wonderful contentiousness we've come to know and love here.
I'm sure there are plenty of folks in East Amherst, which gets a considerable number of diaries, who enjoy listening to Country. But per square mile, there could be far more listeners in cars and pick-up trucks in Springville (Colden, Boston NY and Chaffee) who like Country. Some things in WNY sometime defy convention. Like Irv being #1 forever or Pepsi outselling Coke, which very likely is due to the Pastor family having owned the Pepsi Bottling Company. Quick quiz, Mr. A: Which Buffalo sports team bore the Pepsi emblem? (No fair using "Ask") Not to say we're in a different universe here. There are more things in common with other comparable metros than not. I'm just sayin'.
BTW, check out WYRK on line. You'll hear that it's a terrific station, arguably one of America's best Country stations. And now... back to the countdown.
Yeah, so I guess WHTT is lucky that there's no (new) radio station on the Canadian side that wishes to target Buffalo eh?
Seriously, the new Boom ("Toronto's greatest hits") decided to pick up the Donny Osmund feed. Would that be something better for WHTT to carry instead of John Tesh?
(Boom 97.3 Toronto plans to air Donny from 10pm-2am week nights begining in late January, and Tesh and Delilah are long gone from that station.)
I'd love to drag the new Vinyl 95.3 into the conversation, but I'm not aware of signal strength.
(formerly a country station, now "Hamilton's greatest hits")
Seriously, the new Boom ("Toronto's greatest hits") decided to pick up the Donny Osmund feed. Would that be something better for WHTT to carry instead of John Tesh?
(Boom 97.3 Toronto plans to air Donny from 10pm-2am week nights begining in late January, and Tesh and Delilah are long gone from that station.)
I'd love to drag the new Vinyl 95.3 into the conversation, but I'm not aware of signal strength.
(formerly a country station, now "Hamilton's greatest hits")
Vinyl has a better Classic Hits sound for Buffalo than Boom. Vinyl appears to be using the same jingle package that KB used in the mid or late 70s. Of the two, Vinyl has the aura of CHUM-AM or CFTR when the hits just kept on comin.' Boom sounds like it plays more classic dance-type tunes. IMHO, neither station will impact the Buffalo ratings, but Vinyl presents a better alternative and signal for Buffalo listeners who may want a little more variety.
SirRoxalot said:
The part of this I find entertaining is that for months you've been saying that Citadel's cutbacks in talent were hurting their stations. Now, you point to their music mix for their huge increase in ratings. I think the lesson some will learn from this is that cutting talent won't necessarily hurt your radio station, and it's possible that a slight shift in your music mix can do more than hiring more live & local staff. I'm just sayin.'
Meanwhile at YRK, it's possible that the ratings drop was due to an overemphasis on Taylor Swift or certain songs that the listeners simply didn't like. It's possible. As someone said, conjecture.
Element9 said:
I discovered that on my first trip to Buffalo. First of all, I did it in February, when the snow is as high as an elephant's eye. Second of all, I saw all these signs out in the tundra for "Michigans." I thought's made a wrong turn somewhere, and my next exit was going to be Pontiac. Everything was white, so how was I to know? Then I found out that a Michigan is what people in Buffalo call a chili dog. Or Texas Hots. Who knew? Of course that before the chicken wing became the city's best known culinary export.
TheBigA said:
SLIGHT? Puh-lease. WHTT's return from female-oriented AC to Classic Hits is not unlike WCBS-FM's change from Jack to Classic Hits a few years ago. The station had tossed its legacy overboard - as instructed by corporate - and finally realized that there was much more money to be made by reclaiming that legacy.
Is WHTT as good now as it was a few years ago? I don't know anybody that would say yes. Did the shift to Classic Hits give it a chance to reclaim a disenfranchised audience? Obviously. Will it have legs, and will it reach the kind of shares that it once had now that it has a much shorter staff? We'll see.
If you have the opportunity to look at dayparts and demos, you'll find that several Citadel stations have taken significant hits in both audience and revenue since Citadel corporated issued edicts cutting payroll with little regard to local performance. A group that was once #1 in revenue in the market is now #3. Follow the money, and you'll see why.
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