Congratulations To Entercom Buffalo!

[TheBigA]

A group that was once #1 in revenue in the market is now #3. Follow the money, and you'll see why.

The point is that they were able to increase their ratings after cutting air talent. Now that they've done that, they can focus on improving revenues. The fact is that it's harder for music stations to make money than talk stations. Listeners don't object to commercials as much on talk stations. Without a real strong talk station, it will be hard to get back to #1. The audience for their music stations is aging, and that will hurt them as well. But now that Citadel followed your advice and declared bankruptcy, we'll see if the new owners invest in programming, as you said they would.

 

[Element9]

Some things in WNY sometime defy convention.

I discovered that on my first trip to Buffalo. First of all, I did it in February, when the snow is as high as an elephant's eye. Second of all, I saw all these signs out in the tundra for "Michigans." I thought's made a wrong turn somewhere, and my next exit was going to be Pontiac. Everything was white, so how was I to know? Then I found out that a Michigan is what people in Buffalo call a chili dog. Or Texas Hots. Who knew? Of course that before the chicken wing became the city's best known culinary export.

Uhhh... I ain't never heard a 'dog called a Michigan. Texas Hots? Absolutely. Chili dog, yeah. (In the southern tier you can buy what's called a "sh*t canoe," but it's still a chili dog.) More 'n likely folks just say "let's go to Ted's" or back in the day, "...Pat's... maybe get a footlong." But "Michigan?" Uhh, no.


As to WYRK and the music overdose of Taylor Swift and the like? Conjecture. But I doubt it. One of the many things WYRK does well is music rotation. Again, one of the best in the Country.

As to WHTT? SR explained the scenario. The station abandoned a successful Oldies/Classic Hits/Greatest Hits franchise in order to chase the two established AC stations. Nobody could figure that out. It had one or two good books from one or two good dayparts, blew out some key players and went in the toilet. It then reverted to its franchise form. How long it sustains with voicetracks, etc? Again, conjecture. From the Persons 12+ here, it doesn't look like WBUF-Jack has sustained that well.

 

[SirRoxalot]

A group that was once #1 in revenue in the market is now #3. Follow the money, and you'll see why.

The point is that they were able to increase their ratings after cutting air talent. Now that they've done that, they can focus on improving revenues. The fact is that it's harder for music stations to make money than talk stations. Listeners don't object to commercials as much on talk stations. Without a real strong talk station, it will be hard to get back to #1. The audience for their music stations is aging, and that will hurt them as well. But now that Citadel followed your advice and declared bankruptcy, we'll see if the new owners invest in programming, as you said they would.

Your linkage between "increased ratings" and "cutting air talent" would only be valid if there hadn't been a major format change. The fact is that when Citadel cut talent under the old format, the numbers declined sharply.

If you want to make that linkage, you need to compare WHTT's Classic Hits numbers with the numbers that WHTT had as a Classic Hits station several years ago, when they transitioned from the "oldies" format. The fact is that it wouldn't be fair to do that yet because WHTT has only had one book under the "return to Classic Hits". Care to bet a "michigan" - which I've never heard of in Buffalo - on whether WHTT will equal its former ratings with the current line-up? Better make it a "texas hot", which you WILL find in Buffalo. Or, better yet, a char-grilled Sahlen's, which is a real Buffalo hot dog. And if you were here before chicken wings, then you must have been here prior to 1964.

There are no new owners at this point. We have the same failed corporate leadership that put the company into bankruptcy to start with. Anybody want to rely on Farid & Judy to make the right move when it comes to recognizing the value of talent in ANY department at a radio station? Remember, these are the people who said that radio doesn't need sales people, they just need "order takers".

 

[TheBigA]

I ain't never heard a 'dog called a Michigan.

As I said, this was a long time ago. They still exist in Plattsburgh, but not out west.

Things change. I can't get a Rheingold anymore either.

How long it sustains with voicetracks, etc? Again, conjecture. From the Persons 12+ here, it doesn't look like WBUF-Jack has sustained that well.

The stations that have sustained are those who keep the music fresh and change things up a lot. The minute listeners can predict the rotation is when the audience drops off. The problem with Jack is it became too predictable. The same song at the same time five days a week is a disaster, no matter what the format is.

 

[TheBigA]

Your linkage between "increased ratings" and "cutting air talent" would only be valid if there hadn't been a major format change.

But the format change only involved changing the music. So all a station has to do is change music, not add more talent.

Citadel has new owners. Farid's stake in Citadel disappeared at the end of last year. He works for the banks. He does what they want. If they want to invest in programming, his job is to impliment it.

And if you were here before chicken wings, then you must have been here prior to 1964.

I didn't say I was there before chicken wings, but before they became popular elsewhere.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Your linkage between "increased ratings" and "cutting air talent" would only be valid if there hadn't been a major format change.

But the format change only involved changing the music. So all a station has to do is change music, not add more talent.

You're basing this on ONE book, and you're ignoring the obvious legacy that WHTT had in the marketplace - which was built by a damn good airstaff over a number of years. Once again, let's see if the format has legs with the current airstaff. You refuse to compare apples to apples, which is WHTT's significant decline in ratings when they kept the same format, but cut talent. Explain that.

Citadel has new owners. Farid's stake in Citadel disappeared at the end of last year. He works for the banks. He does what they want. If they want to invest in programming, his job is to impliment it.

No, his job is to advise the new owners - who aren't broadcasters - on how to maximize their investment. Look at the market leaders in Buffalo, and they've got some great, identifiable talent in place. But, you'd have to know something about the market to realize that. The group in Buffalo that's made the fewest cuts is Entercom. Guess who's #1 in revenue?

Trying to pretend that you know something about Buffalo while citing Plattsburgh is laughable. That's like saying you know something about NYC because you've been to Schenectady. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[topsound]

I ain't never heard a 'dog called a Michigan.

As I said, this was a long time ago. They still exist in Plattsburgh, but not out west.

Things change. I can't get a Rheingold anymore either.

How long it sustains with voicetracks, etc? Again, conjecture. From the Persons 12+ here, it doesn't look like WBUF-Jack has sustained that well.

The stations that have sustained are those who keep the music fresh and change things up a lot. The minute listeners can predict the rotation is when the audience drops off. The problem with Jack is it became too predictable. The same song at the same time five days a week is a disaster, no matter what the format is.

Ok - this guy just made his programming bona fides perfectly clear. Perhaps the only way to screw your ratings harder than cutting talent is to "change things up a lot" once you've established a musical position. LOL

 

[TheBigA]

You refuse to compare apples to apples, which is WHTT's significant decline in ratings when they kept the same format, but cut talent. Explain that.

I'll give you this: People will put up with music they aren't crazy about if it comes with a DJ they're familiar with and like. A lot of Stern fans didnt like his taste in music. But they put up with it. Once the DJ goes away, and the music still sucks, they go away.

But once you fix the music, people will come back, even if the DJs are gone. That's what they did at WCBS-FM. They didn't bring back all the old DJs. Just a few. The point is that if the station simply replaced the all old DJs with new DJs, that would not have been enough to bring listeners back. So simply investing in talent isn't a cure-all to a radio station's problems. The MUSIC is what brings them back.

No, his job is to advise the new owners - who aren't broadcasters - on how to maximize their investment. Look at the market leaders in Buffalo, and they've got some great, identifiable talent in place. But, you'd have to know something about the market to realize that. The group in Buffalo that's made the fewest cuts is Entercom. Guess who's #1 in revenue?

He works for the banks, not himself. That's a big difference. And if his advice is bad, it's the right to make a change. The Board is now filled with their people, not his.

Regarding Entercom, as I said, they have a lot of talk stations. Talk stations can cram more spots in, because the audience is way more forgiving. It has nothing to do with a percentage of cuts. The audience doesn't know or care how many people work at a particular station.

I'm not "pretending" to know something about Buffalo. I'm talking about general issues that apply in Buffalo and everywhere else. You don't agree, and you're trying to use any advantage you can. But geography simply isn't enough. And I HAVE been to Schenectady. Just as I have been to Plattsburgh, Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse. There are some facts that don't change regardless of geography. I've discovered that people in all cities seem to know who Led Zepplin is, who Eric Clapton is, and a lot of other recording artists. Their opinions about them fall into predictable groups. That's what matters.

 

[TheBigA]

Perhaps the only way to screw your ratings harder than cutting talent is to "change things up a lot" once you've established a musical position. LOL

I'm not saying to change your musical position. As I say in my next sentence, don't play the same song at the same time five days a week. That was the problem some Jack stations had. The listeners noticed and went away.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Regarding Entercom, as I said, they have a lot of talk stations. Talk stations can cram more spots in, because the audience is way more forgiving. It has nothing to do with a percentage of cuts. The audience doesn't

Entercom has two talk stations - both on AM, the band that you contend is on life support. One station, WBEN, is a success because it's the old line news/talk station that still is live and local during the majority of the day, and actually has a functional news department. WWKB, the 50KW behemoth is languishing with no support, no promotion, no local talent, and struggles to get to a 1 share.

WBEN's audience is heavily skewed toward the demos that you contend are unsellable - 54+. Their stronger properties are WKSE (Kiss 98.5), a CHR that leans Hot AC during half the day, and Star 102.5, a Hot AC with more personality in mid-days than any of its competition. Between them, they lock up women 12-44. Think you can sell that? They certainly do. As you can see, Entercom hardly has "a lot of talk stations". They have ONE viable talk station, and it certainly is profitable.

If CBS-FM had simply brought back the music, without bringing back at least some of the personalities, they wouldn't have made nearly the impact that they made. WHTT has a very recognizable morning man with a long history in the market. That helps. And, as I said, they're retrieving their legacy audience. There are plenty of perils for them to negotiate, but at least they're headed in the right direction after a disasterous foray into AC.

 

[Element9]

Plattsburgh? Bwah?

A. Dude. Please.

This reminded me of a regional sales guy from Chicago that I dealt with years ago. Dude calls and says, "Hey, I'm comin' up to Buffalo on Thursday, you wanna go see the Yankees play?" I'm thinkin', "This guy is gonna fly me to NYC?" He continues, "We'll go to lunch then go to the game, they're playing the White Sox..." This guy didn't have a clue about NY state. Buffalo is a good seven hours drive from "The house that Ruth built." So I say, "The only way we're gonna make the game after lunch is if you have a chartered jet..." Guy says, "I thought it was a few hours' drive?!"

Yeah, maybe from Poughkeepsie.

A "Michigan?" I thought, "well maybe, back 'round '58..." So I called the guys at Ted's. "Did you ever hear of a 'dog refered to as 'a Michigan?'"

Whhhhhatttt? ??? Never. Ever. If the guys at Ted's don't recognize that name, it just didn't happen.

Even though we often disagree, you clearly know more about radio than about Buffalo and Western New York... although not Buffalo radio. Still, stick with radio. BTW, the sports team with the Pepsi bottlecap logo on their sweaters was... the Buffalo Bisons, AHL Champions! They played in... The Aud.

 

[TheBigA]

Even though we often disagree, you clearly know more about radio than about Buffalo and Western New York.

As I said, it has been a while. I'd come up in the summer, but it only lasts a few days. (rim shot)

I'm glad I could provide you with at least a moment of entertainment on another chilly day. Have a Texas Hot and enjoy an Iriquois

 

[TheBigA]

Entercom has two talk stations - both on AM, the band that you contend is on life support.

The BAND is on life support, but some older cities still can have a couple of successful AMs. Detroit, Philly, Boston, and New York are a few. Same with Buffalo. That doesn't mean the band is making a comeback. A mall that has only two open stores is still a mall on life support.

When did Entercom sell WGR? Or did they flip to oldies? I'd suggest the one-two punch of BEN and GR are contributing a lot to the bottom line mainly because, as I said before, they can run a lot more commercials in talk and sports without alienating their audience. And yes, their demos are nearly dead, but that's OK, because they LISTEN to the radio. Talk and sports radio are foreground formats, and it's why companies are moving them to FM.

I was reading how the one-two punch of WCBS-AM and WINS-AM in New York City, two AM stations with aging demos, helped CBS Radio become the #1 biller in the city. Add WFAN and you get a trifecta. CBS FM stations are on the bottom end of the revenue scale, even though WCBS-FM is in the Top 5. Why? The audience hates commercials, and music radio, even with similar demos, is a tough sell. That could cause a problem for WHTT, even with a good book.

As I've said before, I believe music radio stations will have to cut their spotload even more to keep their audience. That will mean they will have even less money for talent. Meanwhile, companies will move news, talk, and sports formats to FM, where they'll attract younger demos, and the industry will gain another 15-20 years with terrestrial radio, before everyone moves completely to some form of digital delivery system.

 

[TheBigA]

And before you bust me on my spelling again, I know it's Iroquois. Indian names have never been my strong point. I hated working on Onondaga Boulevard. And I never root for Redskins, Indians, or Chiefs.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Vinyl has a better Classic Hits sound for Buffalo than Boom. Vinyl appears to be using the same jingle package that KB used in the mid or late 70s. Of the two, Vinyl has the aura of CHUM-AM or CFTR when the hits just kept on comin.' Boom sounds like it plays more classic dance-type tunes. IMHO, neither station will impact the Buffalo ratings, but Vinyl presents a better alternative and signal for Buffalo listeners who may want a little more variety.

Vinyl also invested in several well known former announcers from CKOC 1150 (Hamilton) 1050 CHUM and other stations near by to make things work.
I think their plan is to keep staff that "Lived those times" employed.

Boom on the other hand has staff that *may* have lived "those times" but are better known in the CFNY days. (Humble Howard mornings) and Mai Potts mid days.
They did keep "KJ"...a long time radio announcer for CFTR back in the day, so good for them!

 

[Element9]

Vinyl has a better Classic Hits sound for Buffalo than Boom. Vinyl appears to be using the same jingle package that KB used in the mid or late 70s. Of the two, Vinyl has the aura of CHUM-AM or CFTR ... Vinyl presents a better alternative and signal for Buffalo listeners who may want a little more variety.

Vinyl also invested in several well known former announcers from CKOC 1150 (Hamilton) 1050 CHUM and other stations near by to make things work.
I think their plan is to keep staff that "Lived those times" employed.

Boom on the other hand has staff that *may* have lived "those times" but are better known in the CFNY days. (Humble Howard mornings) and Mai Potts mid days.
They did keep "KJ"...a long time radio announcer for CFTR back in the day, so good for them!

Live, local personalities? Bah, who needs that! Good luck to Vinyl in the BBM. Very likely, Canada's PPM will treat the station very well. Between Vinyl and Boom, I'd probably spend more time listening to Vinyl. The FM Band in Metro Toronto and The Peninsula has really seen some changes over the last year and the past few months especially: Boom 97.3, Vinyl 95.3, Q-107, 98.1, CHUM-FM 104.5, CFNY 102.1, Virgin 99-9... This many Canadian FMs haven't been on my car radio pre-selects in years. Gives us Yanks a bit more variety. Now if only I could convert metric to Farenheit on the fly, ehh.

 

[SirRoxalot]

I find Boom unlistenable. Then again, I'm a guy, and not a fan of disco. Vinyl is more listenable when I'm looking for more variety than offered by WHTT, but some of the Can-con is mind-numbing. Vinyl might get a few minutes of my listening time when 'HTT is in an endless commercial set, or playing something lame, but I'm almost guaranteed to be reaching for the button within three songs.