Conneticut School of Broadcasting

[TomNote]

<< Don't you know we now live in an age where we can make up anything we want, post it on the internet and call it the truth? >>

Damn. It's so hard keeping up with modern trends!

;D

<< I think the point is made that few CSB Grads get hired compared to if someone interns at a station for low pay or as a volunteer. Am I wrong? >>

I have no idea if you're wrong. And neither do you, if you can't back it up with anything other than an impression.

My own impression is that a 95% failure rate is pretty low. I mean, I do know for certain that there were several people just in my one graduating class at CSB who had landed jobs when I came back a week later for our diploma ceremony. (I'm guessing others got work after that.) And there where less than 20 students total there then.

But of course, not having kept up with them since leaving I have no clue if that was an anomoly, or if all CSB classes have had the same success rate since. So I can't make a definitive general statement. And neither can anyone else who just takes a subjective snapshot or twenty, instead of getting dispassionate data.

Where I currently work there are a number of college radio grads (skewed towards WSOU) and several CSB alumns. I don't know of any announcers where I am who started as interns and learned on the job, but that's not to say there aren't any. From what I've gathered after almost 2 decades of being on air is that GM's, PD's, etc. generally don't give a flying fig where their talent learned their skills, as long as they have them. They have to run a business. If you are "just" a CSB grad and sound better than Mr. Four Year Communications Major, you'll get the gig. That's how I got MY job. And I assume I'm not unique.

Of course, I can't actually prove it.....



(BTW, and OT: I've been reading your various blogs off-and-on for some time now, and really enjoy them. You write quite well. I was very sorry to read about your dog, though. You have my sincere condolences, as a guy who loves his own pooch. I also hope you've been keeping to your New Years resolutions! You'll live a lot longer if you succeed.)

 

[cabradio]

My beef isn't so much with the program. Especially since the "training grounds" are virtually gone. Although from what I have heard first hand from CSB students, the curriculum is loose. Now that may have changed under the new ownership. But back in early '07 a CSB student told me that his instructor was absent for several classes. Of course, there could be extenuating circumstances, but the student was pretty much peeved. So, I doubt the absences were acceptable.

What I do have a problem with is the cost. $10K! That's a new car, or a down payment on a small house (or 1/2 the down payment). Bub mentioned earlier he paid $1k. I'm sure that was expensive back then! There is a program where you pay a PD or MD to teach you the ropes. They seem to focus more on Sports Broadcasting now: http://www.broadcastertraining.com. Now just a few years ago, their fee was $1500. The PD/MD got 50% of it. That seems more realistic to me for what you are buying.

Also, in cities that have CSB Schools, I think you will find a higher concentration of grads. That is probably why you happen to know so many. But even here in CT, where it all began, I would bet there aren't as many grads with full time gigs as they lead you to believe.

(On the OT...Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy the blogs [for those who don't know, I have 3]. I am gearing up to keep them better updated. I don't think I will ever get used to Jezebel & Spike being gone. Over the past year, I thought I lost my Radio Mojo, but as you can see I was mistaken! There will be a blog on that very soon. lol)

Thanks for the conversation Sherpat! I appreciate your input. It is good to hear that *some* CSB Grads have done well for themselves. Incidentally, THIS is a REAL Broadcast school: http://www.specshoward.edu/program-curriculum.htm. Maybe if CSB was more education oriented, and less "get 'em in get 'em out", I'd be more positive in my comments about them.

 

[Towerclimber31]

Sherpat, I used to work part-time at a "North Jersey Oldies Station" about 8 years ago. The PD at the time went out of his way to thank me for not be a product of CSB. LOL I kid you not!

The other thing someone could do, listen to a station that is voice tracked on a bird. Identify a 3 or 4 hour window somewhere, tell the PD who probably is the owner, you will do the shift for free for a while for experience. I know a couple of people who have done that and work full-time in the business in decent size markets.

 

[bub]

Random thoughts:

While I do admit to being a CSB alum, I am not of the opinion that you have to go to CSB to get in this industry; in fact, my feelings are rather mixed on the subject. The only reason why I went the CSB route was because I wanted to get into the business, but didn't know how. At least they taught me how it's done.

In the interest of full disclosure, I also hold an Associate's and Bachelor's Degree from college, which I obtained after CSB. Both schools I graduated from, they did not offer Communications as a major. In fact, I only took a grand total of 2 courses (6 credits) that had any reference to broadcasting. While I did take a speech course in college, that's considered a more universal course offered at many colleges and universities just to satisfy a core curriculum requirement; whether you major in Communications or Engineering or Pre-med. That said, I am not of the opinion that everyone has to go to college.

Since college, I have never put CSB on my resume when applying for jobs in the biz with the exception of applying to CSB for an Instructor's position or if I know the PD was a CSB grad. At the very least, as a CSB alum, I can always go back to CSB any time for refresher training.

Again, just random thoughts. Take it FWIW.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

I can't speak for CSB, but in the mid 70's (which might just as well be the paleolithic era) I spent about 18 months as an instructor at a radio school near Buffalo that was similar to but not affiliated with CSB. At the time I was a night jock and took over teaching a few daytime classes for a friend of mine who also taught at the school but left for a better radio job in a major market.

As an instructor, I was diligent but always realistic with the students, many of them ex-military and Viet Nam vets. I inherited a class of about 20 students, half of which had raw talent, serious motivation and ambition, the other half had limited talent but plenty of chutzpah.

I realized going in that not every student was going to get a radio job. But at the time, TV was hiring a lot of techs especially in support roles, so my first objective was to get every single student prepared to pass the FCC Third Class Radiotelephone License exam with Broadcast Endorsement, a basic requirement to at least get in the door to work at a small market AM station and be considered for a switcher-trainee position in TV master control.

Along the way, I followed the school's syllabus and expanded it, making the students work harder to improve their skills. Because I also was on the air every night, I had to set a good example because the students could hear what I was doing. Teaching was a lot more rigorous than I expected it to be. There were lesson plans to create, tests to correct, airchecks to listen to and critiques to write.

As exhausting as it was, I enjoyed teaching because I knew there were some men and women in that class who could make it in the business, given the proper direction, attention and guidance. Also, I respected the fact that many of the students were front line vets and deserved to get 100% from their GI Bill investment.

As it turned out, every student got his third ticket with endorsement. Of the 20 students I taught, eight found jobs in radio as jocks or news people within six months of graduation. Four others got TV tech jobs and one of those who started in radio news made it to the weekend anchor's chair at a medium market TV station. Two tracked into radio sales.

I don't know what CSB promises or what their curriculum is, I'd only advise that if you go to a school like that, go in with your eyes open, make the best of every minute, because you're paying a premium price and hope that you get instructors who gave a damn about your well-being and future.

Over the years, I've been in charge of company college internship programs for two different radio station groups. When it's all said and done, I'd recommend a two year community college program with emphasis on I-T courses and communications classes before I'd recommend a school like CSB. SUNY colleges, while not cheap, offer the best bang for the buck. There are some two year SUNY schools that have solid radio-communications programs and radio stations, one of which is Herkimer County Community College near Syracuse, the other is Genesee Community College near Rochester.

In fact, the legendary Randy Michaels is one of many students who graduated from a SUNY College. He went to SUNY Fredonia. Yeah, it's a real college, not the figment of the Marx Brothers's genius. Other worthwhile SUNY schools for radio-TV include SUNY Brockport and SUNY Oswego (Al Roker is a graduate and Jerry Seinfeld attended for one semester.) These are schools with well-run and well-funded communications programs and FM radio stations.

As far as getting that first job, a lot depends on the applicant's attitude, dedication and willingness to do the job and take direction... and work like a dog for minimum wage... even moreso than what's on the resume, be that CSB, SUNY or Seton Hall.


Still, it's important to let employers know that you've invested some time in the classroom and have an education and some kind of certification to show for it. It may sound old-school, but back in the day, having a Third Ticket with Broadcast Endorsement indicated that you had at least the basic understanding of radio broadcast technology and met some requirements. It may be time to get back to that.

Apologies for the "extended post." Next time I'll go with Cliff Notes.

 

[LocalRadio]

Broadcasting schools, as well as any other trade schools, rely on pell grants which are given to economically underprivileged people.

Wanted to point out that CSB students do not qualify for Pell Grants. A school must offer a comprehensive curriculum including English and other academic classes to qualify for the Pell program. Since CSB only offers broadcasting classes, their students are not eligible.

The current cost at CSB is close to $11,000. As many people on this thread have already said, I think would-be broadcasters would be better served to try volunteering at a station. Unfortunately, I know there are stations that get everything they can from their volunteers without ever considering them for a full time position, either on or off air. Still, before someone spends 11 grand for a course that might land them a minimum wage board op job, he or she should exhaust all other opportunities.

To me, the biggest rip offs in broadcast training are those programs that charge at least $6,000 to “work” alongside a broadcaster. The final goal of the program is to get the student a demo tape. The student never gets on the air; they just make a tape under the tutelage of their broadcast mentor, who is paid by the “school.” A little audio software or a couple of hours at a recording studio would be a much better alternative…especially to a $6,000 demo tape.

I, too, mourn the loss of radio's "farm team" training. As the Tim McGraw song says, "Things change."

 

[oaktree]

Re: Connecticut School of Broadcasting

After reading each and every thoughtfully worded and crafted post here, and knowing Charlie Profit as I do ... the hard, cold, realistic fact is ... he's right on most off of his thoughts. Others are close and all have stated some interesting facts or asides that are all valuable.

Now, I'll toss my hat in this ring, after 39 years of experience that continues today from part-time work through ownership.

Back in the day, (late 60s,) I had a chance to spend what was several thousand dollars of my parents hard-earned-money (about $4,000, if I remember correctly,) to study at the "Columbia School of Broadcasting," (not affiliated with CBS or CSB,) and, for about a grand more, the "Cleveland Institute of Electronics (CIE)" where I'd at least get to keep a soldering iron and, maybe, a circuit board or two for my 10 weeks of intense training. There were also, along the way, at least two or three "8 week wonder" schools that assured, for a hefty price, that "You, too, could get a high-paying job with lots of opportunities in Radio AND TV ... with an official FIRST CLASS RADIOTELEPHONE LICENSE issued by the Federal Communications Commission!"

All you had to do, literally, was memorize the script, know the answers, go the an FCC Field Office, take the test and ... if you passed ... head off to taking transmitter readings at your local AM station (quite possibly a slightly higher paying directional antenna pattern,) and you were ON THE RADIO!

That was, until you were caught by a usually much more advanced Chief Engineer (not merely a Chief Operator) who soon discovered you didn't know a "Proof of Performance" from a rectifier or a counter-poise from a waitress at Woolworth's.

But, heck, it got you in the door to do nights or all nights someplace and, maybe, you'd quickly graduate from "record cueing 1-0-1 or "cart slamming" in a day or two.

I didn't go to either and believe me, I never got off the mailing lists for years and years in the hope that I would change my mind.

I opted for the "sleep at the front door" theory: Be friendly, be enthusiastic, be a sponge for everything radio with anyone and everyone that dared walk into a radio station. Write notes, offer to carry records to "hops" for free, help set up equipment, make dedications on the late night "lovelines" oldies show. Just make this people feel that I was such a pest, there must be something there.

And, at no cost, other than time and a parent willing to drive me to the radio station, Sunday morning (even reading a beer commercial as an audition in the PDs office,) came about. It was the proudest moment of my life at the time. And I didn't have to do transmitter readings for a 5-tower, 5-kw station in a top 75 market. (They had other people to do "that" job.)

I learned, I kept my mouth shut (except when on the air,) I listened and I learned. I offered to type commercials, learned to sell, helped re-build a record library, was never late and, stupidly, offered to fill in at anytime ... even if it meant taking homework to the station.

I say "stupidly," because I really thought that I was good enough to do it. It took months before I was asked to, but, eventually, I did. In three months, another station called me and offered me a fulltime job, "bring your homework and all," and I did nights, with homework after 10 p.m. And, weekends, too.

I was blessed. Learning from the very best that Wilmington, Delaware had to offer. Patient, kind people who gave back what they had gained to a scrawny kid who lived, ate and breathed a career he had no clue about ... until taking the first step.

Radio is a continual learning experience, even (and especially) now and for me, as well. But you've got to do it for yourself and on your own. One "school" using a board that's 20 years old will never "teach" you how today's board's, mikes, processors or transmitters work. It's a LOT of "OJT" (On Job Training.)

But it's education. And the smaller, the better to start.

Here's a hint: Today, anyone of the posters here wondering "how" can save themselves a lot of $$$$, and, yet, "invest" something in themselves (if serious) to make this "career choice" happen. We couldn't do it 40 years ago. Or even 20. Or 10, for that matter, but now, anyone can do it ... and for a few, doing it well and correctly, will pay off. Here's what you do...

Make an investment in yourself with a budget of, say, a thousand dollars (less than 10% of CSB.) Go buy a decent but not overly expensive desktop. Get a wide-band internet connection. Buy a copy of SAM Broadcaster (or similar program,) buy or borrow 500 songs from CDs, join an organization like Loud City online and pay for music licensing every month ... even at the cheapest plan. Go for the fewest number of "listeners" you can get away with (don't try to be WABC overnight ... won't happen.) Buy a small (if not used) board from Radio Shack (a disco board will do just fine,) or, a Berringer, Mackey or equivelent. Buy a Shure mike (to start) and a mike stand.

Maybe go to a few radio stations and ask to talk with the Chief Engineer. He / she might just know where you can find a used but working "radio console" or old cart machines or an old computer that's not being used and will donate it for "the cause."

Then, take 30 days to put it all together ... one song after another. Tag them, know the intros and the closes. Be creative and write letters about things like "jingles" or sweepers. Be honest.

Finally, dedicate to spending a couple hours a day doing what YOU do best from what you've learned in listening to GOOD or, better, GREAT radio stations. It's not about entertaining your friends, it's about learning "Radio." Then, tell a few people what you're doing. Maybe ask a few parents if they'd give you $5 for "commercials" on your home-brew radio station. Bet you can make $25 a month just doing that to begin with no sweat ... and you've, then, paid for your internet connection. (Wow! What a concept!)

Then, sit there, and BROADCAST, knowing that somehow, that little flea-powered signal of yours, mistakes, mumbles and all is getting out all over the world. All over your city. All over your house. All over everything that moves.

Tape it. Then listen to it. Then tape it some more. And listen to it. Then tape, listen, tape, listen...then, approach someone in the business to listen ... either "off line" or on a CD, cassette, 8-track, reel-to-reel...whatever ... and listen to the feedback.

And soon, you'll learn programming. Formatics. Timing. Pacing. Flow. Rotations. Bitrate. Frequency response. Sales. Promotion. You'll learn it all. And all pretty quickly.

But the best advice ... take the time to do it right, not from what you THINK you know, but from what you really know ... whether you disagree or not. The Internet is "where it is," in today's broadcasting world. Not merely cheap sounding AM or homogenized, voicetracked FM. This is where you get to be all things to all people without the expense of transmitters, towers, buildings, staffs and people who don't "practice" the trade, but merely "work at it."

What an opportunity you have to beat Dick Robinson at his own game. Self-teaching in a field where there isn't much good "training" or teaching today is the best you can possibly get.

Because it's about YOU ... and being YOURSELF is the best training you can possibly get. The rest is, then, up to you ... whether you end up at KIIS-FM or the little teapot mom-and-pop in your town. You'll come "educated." That's a huge plus in your favor, not to mention inventive, creative and damn smart. That attracts interest in your abilities. And be flexible. Hate country? Learn it. Love hard rock? Learn something else. Never done news? Learn to read into a mike after retyping stories out of the newspaper if you have to. Do it all. You have no limits.

Good luck. Let us know how you do. You've got the tools to do it right now, probably, so, get going ... -oaktree- in California.

 

[RADIO TRUTH]

The Elkins School Of Broadcasting always was able to take Pell Grant money. I don't see why the Connecticut School Of Broadcasting couldn't. The students, and I use that term loosely, only took broadcasting and no other courses at Elkins even though most of them needed basic education in grammar school english skills.

 

[KingJJ]

Geez...why don't some of you write a book? I cannot believe some of the long-winded and boring responses here. By the time you're done reading "oaktree", an actual oaktree could grow to full height. And yes, spelling does count. There's no excuse for messing up basic 3rd grade English.
~JJ

 

[NSPUNX]

Your experience may vary....

I went to an open house at CSB. The one thing I noticed was that all the other "potential broadcasters" were imo barely one step up from a "mongoloid". It was kinds funny because you had... The guy that worked in radio 40 years ago and thinks he is already howard stern. The spaz that thinks hes gonna get a job in a big market playing some crazy obscure music. The teenage baby mama who thinks she's gonna make 150,000 a year in TV. Not to mention the ones that could not even read the "audition" script properly.

I have been involved in AV since middle school. I produce and host my own weekly show at a college FM. I have worked and installed sound systems. Used to produce, edit and direct TV at the local access station as well as teach the advanced editing course there. I am also a Dolby Labs certified cinema sound technician. I was looking at CSB strictly for radio and strictly to learn voice skills, and the latest audio editing software and techniques. First of all you have to take the TV course too so out of 8 weeks only 4 are actually dedicated to radio. The "studios" are about as advanced as the college. They made a big deal out of the Mackie mixer in the edit suite and how they would teach you how to work all the knobs. I have been working with and repairing these for years. Second, The TV studio is no where near as nice as the access station. They threw a bunch of portable equipment in a janitors closet for thier "control room" and the studio cameras are portable cameras on dolly's. Very very cheesy. I was all set to go until I went there and found out the real deal. I have decided to stick with my college show and put together a demo package and airchecks and try to get an entry level p/t job at a station in mass or southern nh.

Oh and BTW,they will call you EVERY GOD DAMN DAY AFTERWARDS if you go to the studio tour!

 

[cabradio]

Geez...why don't some of you write a book? I cannot believe some of the long-winded and boring responses here. By the time you're done reading "oaktree", an actual oaktree could grow to full height. And yes, spelling does count. There's no excuse for messing up basic 3rd grade English.
~JJ

Completely unnecessary. This is a message board. Not an instant messenger. If the posts are too long for your attention span, (or if you just don't have time...which happens to me occasionally) no one says you have to read them. And as far as spelling....EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE makes spelling mistakes at some point here. If you haven't, you will. And someone will call you out, just like you called out. The fact is, in my case, sometimes my editor doesn't catch the mistake because the word was spelled correctly, but the context was wrong. I have something running that underlines misspelled words in red. But it doesn't recognize context: to, two and too are good examples. Sometimes I click "post" before correcting a mistake, because I didn't see it. Other times, I just have "fat" fingers, and hit the wrong key. And again, in my case, sometimes the keys stick, or don't take (I have to really push down hard on the "N" on my keyboard). And yes, sometimes the word is just plain misspelled. As much as we want to be perfect, we can't be. Should we strive to spell correctly? Absolutely. It does have an impact on how your message is interpreted. But I wouldn't be condescending about it, because it happens to the best of us from time to time.

 

[oaktree]

Thanks, Charlie...

And King, at least you get credit for pushing the envelope on "attention span." I can only hope you might have learned something from basic comprehension and reading. I apologize if the words were too big.

And King JJ, "your" perspective on this excitement surely was more than being a critic, no? Do you have anything positive to add or is that all you can offer us? The audience is watching ... Are you from Connecticut by any chance?

Thanks for playing.

 

[KingJJ]

Charlie Profit: I'm not here to rip anyone, but even your post responding to my critique of long-winded posts was too long. Brevity is the soul of wit. Generally speaking, short jokes are funnier than long ones. The fewer words needed to make a point makes the idea you are trying to convey come into focus more clearly for listeners and readers. I didn't site any specific spelling errors--I was merely a commenting about the net and message boards in general. Of course, I've made grammatical errors in my life.

Oaktree: I'm not from CT. I did not attend CSB, but I know several professors there who are good broadcasters. That said, CSB is costly and if you expect to walk out the door with an amazing job almost immediately, you'll be disappointed. It might be cheaper and almost as effective to take a local college course or courses at a college with a radio station- which is nearly all of them. Fewer dollars out of your pocket. Then take it from there. They love volunteers.
Good luck.....now I'm getting long-winded.
~JJ

 

[cabradio]

Charlie Profit: I'm not here to rip anyone, but even your post responding to my critique of long-winded posts was too long. Brevity is the soul of wit. Generally speaking, short jokes are funnier than long ones. The fewer words needed to make a point makes the idea you are trying to convey come into focus more clearly for listeners and readers. I didn't site any specific spelling errors--I was merely a commenting about the net and message boards in general. Of course, I've made grammatical errors in my life.

Of course every one has their opinions. That's what the message board is all about. It's also about having conversations. It's not about being witty, although people can be. You must not have enjoyed the mini series Roots and you must be a fan on songs 2:30 long, I mean short.

As far as your opinion of short jokes...that is your opinion. That is what you like. You can't speak for everybody. But I appreciate your comments. It's always nice to hear another point of view.

 

[radiochickpa]

CSB teaches TV, video an radio and depending on the school, is very good.
I have seen my friend teach at the Long Island School and he is very effective.
Many of his grads are doing well. If you go, the LI school would be the one. The Northern NJ campus isn't as good.
Most schools are a scam, but CSB doesn't use the tactics most do. I was asked to "mentor" a student for a California "broadcasting school".....that was his class! Please......