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Consoles

Z

ZelenRecords

Maybe somebody can help me. Here is what I'm looking for.

I need a console that can handle:

4 Mic's
2 CD Players
2 MD Players
1 Phone Hybrid
1 Cassete Player
1 Computer

We are an ethnic Program that wants to broadcast from there office to the station we broker time from. So we do not have a huge budget. You think we should go digital? If so, How do the CD players and all that other stuff work? Optical Cord?
 
radiosystems.com makes a cheap broadcast console. Otherwise use a normal non-broadcast studio board...something Behringer.

If you want digital, Wheatstone makes a lovely digital board for about the cost of a BMW or Acura.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> Maybe somebody can help me. Here is what I'm looking for.
>
> I need a console that can handle:
>
> 4 Mic's
> 2 CD Players
> 2 MD Players
> 1 Phone Hybrid
> 1 Cassete Player
> 1 Computer
>
> We are an ethnic Program that wants to broadcast from there
> office to the station we broker time from. So we do not
> have a huge budget. You think we should go digital? If so,
> How do the CD players and all that other stuff work?
> Optical Cord?
>

You could go for one of the Arrakis 1200 consoles and have them install two of the main boards that have the mic preamps on the two first channels. You would then have mic inputs on channels 1 and 2 as well as 6 and 7. You'd wind up with 6 line inputs on a 10 channel board and 11 line inputs on a 15 channel version of the 1200.

I've installed the 1200's on a few small FM's and a couple of webcast studios and they work very well.
 
> > Maybe somebody can help me. Here is what I'm looking for.
>
> >
> > I need a console that can handle:
> >
> > 4 Mic's
> > 2 CD Players
> > 2 MD Players
> > 1 Phone Hybrid
> > 1 Cassete Player
> > 1 Computer
> >
> > We are an ethnic Program that wants to broadcast from
> there
> > office to the station we broker time from. So we do not
> > have a huge budget. You think we should go digital? If
> so,
> > How do the CD players and all that other stuff work?
> > Optical Cord?
> >
>
> You could go for one of the Arrakis 1200 consoles and have
> them install two of the main boards that have the mic
> preamps on the two first channels. You would then have mic
> inputs on channels 1 and 2 as well as 6 and 7. You'd wind up
> with 6 line inputs on a 10 channel board and 11 line inputs
> on a 15 channel version of the 1200.
>
> I've installed the 1200's on a few small FM's and a couple
> of webcast studios and they work very well.
>


The station we are at now has 1200's with 4 mic's.
 
> radiosystems.com makes a cheap broadcast console. Otherwise
> use a normal non-broadcast studio board...something
> Behringer.
>
> If you want digital, Wheatstone makes a lovely digital board
> for about the cost of a BMW or Acura.
>

Strange as it is, KFRN-AM 1280 Long Beach, CA uses a Behringer Eurorack as their main board.


db
 
> radiosystems.com makes a cheap broadcast console. Otherwise
> use a normal non-broadcast studio board...something
> Behringer.


So much depends on the budget.

The Behringer Eurodesk MXB-1002 is a fine little board but
somewhat difficult to use for live radio. I have one in my
own personal studio and have expended it by using a couple
of simple 3-input "stereo selectors" from Radio Shack. Those
are totally passive, so have no effect on quality; their
crosstalk is almost non-existent. Biggest single problems:
1. They're single bus only; no traditional Program/Audition
2. No muting.

If the budget would allow something for about $3,000, AEQ
makes an interesting little board but it's exclusively
unbalanced in/out. Autogram's Mini Mix 8A is around the
same price and much more friendly to broadcast. In fact,
I'm installing the slightly larger 12A in a station in
Alaska this week. It's in a mini-production studio and
won't be used for direct on-air but it easily could.
There's no in-built hybrid but there is a mono output off
one of the two outbusses that can be used with an
inexpensive hybrid. I didn't like the layout, so just
used a Henry summing amp to make it work exactly as I wanted.
That's right...a kind of home-made mix-minus...there being
none built in but, at the price, small beer.

I expect to have the room done this weekend. If you'd like
a couple of digital pictures, see my profile and send me
a direct e-mail and I'll ship some off to you.<P ID="signature">______________
God save us from those who would save us from ourselves! P-l-e-a-s-e!!!!!</P>
 
> I expect to have the room done this weekend. If you'd like
> a couple of digital pictures, see my profile and send me
> a direct e-mail and I'll ship some off to you.

Picture! (it's big)

That's the studio I put together using a Behringer EURODESK MX3282A for an internet radio station. Worked great with the 4 sub groups, but I never got a chance to solder a monitor duck relay. It would have been nicer to have more stereo pots, too.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> Autogram's Mini Mix 8A is around the
> same price and much more friendly to broadcast. In fact,
> I'm installing the slightly larger 12A in a station in
> Alaska this week. It's in a mini-production studio and
> won't be used for direct on-air but it easily could.
> There's no in-built hybrid but there is a mono output off
> one of the two outbusses that can be used with an
> inexpensive hybrid. I didn't like the layout, so just
> used a Henry summing amp to make it work exactly as I
> wanted.
> That's right...a kind of home-made mix-minus...there being
> none built in but, at the price, small beer.
>
I love my Mini Mix 8 that I have in my home studio (that I got for only $50 used!) - but it does only have 2 mic channels, not the 4 that they were looking for.
 
> I love my Mini Mix 8 that I have in my home studio (that I
> got for only $50 used!) - but it does only have 2 mic
> channels, not the 4 that they were looking for.

Correct...and no provision for swapping out high level inputs
for mic inputs.

However...

I presently have a public affairs studio with a Wheatstone R55
with two mic inputs. #1 is used for the announce mic. #2 is
tied to a Shure Intellimixer to allow 4 more with AGC.
Drawback is that there are no pan pots on either the Wheatstone
or the Shure. So....as I finish up the production room I'm
working on the Behringer MXB-1002 is coming out and going into
the room with the R55 where it'll feed a high-level input.
This will provide an additional 5 mic inputs, each of which
has a pan pot. The idea is to record some local musicians
in stereo. It'll happen rarely enough that it's not worth
the expense of a proper recording studi board, especially
since the 1002 already exists. Even if it didn't, and for
the application we're discussing, you can buy a brand new
1002 for $99 and cascade it with the Mini-Mix.

Still, some of the bigger Behringers are really good IF you
can rig your own muting and aren't concerned with having both
Program and Audition.<P ID="signature">______________
God save us from those who would save us from ourselves! P-l-e-a-s-e!!!!!</P>
 
> The Behringer Eurodesk MXB-1002 is a fine little board but
> somewhat difficult to use for live radio.

I'm producing a fairly complex, live talk and music show on one of these. It's excellent in this application, although control placement could be better. Behringer makes a similar model, the UB1204 without the battery power option and with a better control layout.

I've kludged a simple 'muter' which lives in a push button box and on a rack panel in my home studio, although I believe an off the shelf solution is available.

Having used and installed everything from Sparta to Wheatstone boards over the years, I'm amazed at the quality/price/performance of the little Behringers and Mackies.
 
My vote would be for the LPB MX10LW. Not bad for the money, you can get 4 mic preamps for it, and it will support mix-minus for the hybrid. Should be around $5000, or possibly a little less. Call your nearest RF Specialties office (www.rfspec.com). They should be able to help you find something within your budget.

-Chris Hall
www.reelaudio.net
 
> Call your nearest RF Specialties
> office (www.rfspec.com). They should be able to help you
> find something within your budget.

And if you do, beware of their offer of "Overnight Transportation"
at a very low price. "Overnight Transportation" is the name of
a TRUCKING COMPANY which might get something to you overnight if
you're in the same city as the company that makes whatever you
needed.

How do I know? I'm still waiting for "Overnight Transportation"
of some stuff ordered around July 30 and they're saying it will
be here no later than August 28. The person who saved all the
money by avoiding FedEx or UPS Blue NOW understands the
difference. The RF Specialties salesman purports to be quite
embarassed by it all but that doesn't get it here any quicker!<P ID="signature">______________
God save us from those who would save us from ourselves! P-l-e-a-s-e!!!!!</P>
 
When we added our second station, I didn't have the room for a full size console, but I wanted some kind of mixing ability so I could process the commercial separately from the satellite music feed. I opted for a Mackie, which I am happy with, as it doesn't seem to be bothered by our hi-RF enviornoment (17 kw only 190 feet above the studios). The 14 channel has such a small footprint it sits on top of the equipment rack with the Starguide, audio DA's and switcher to muste the network feeds.

If you are the only one to be using the console, & you can live without muting, I would recommend the Mackie line as an inexpensive console for your intended use. If you are going to have several people using the console, & needed muting, audition and mix-minus, I would go with something like the R-55 from Wheatstone(around 6K). Since it is modular, you can customize how many mike channels you need.

There are so many quiet, well-made analog consoles out there that I think it is foolish to spend the extra money for a digital console. Digital consoles/systems have their place: multi-studio complexes where the simplified wiring and centralized switching and routing makes this a wise choice. For a single studio application analog is the way to go.

Just buy high-end consumer CD's such as some of Marantz rack-mounts offered by BSW and you will be very happy with the analog quality.
 
> > I expect to have the room done this weekend. If you'd
> like
> > a couple of digital pictures, see my profile and send me
> > a direct e-mail and I'll ship some off to you.
>
> Picture! (it's big)
>
> That's the studio I put together using a Behringer EURODESK
> MX3282A for an internet radio station. Worked great with
> the 4 sub groups, but I never got a chance to solder a
> monitor duck relay. It would have been nicer to have more
> stereo pots, too.
>

It's a ripoff of a Mackie 32.8-Bus. Looks just like one. Didn't Behringer get in alot of trouble for copying Mackie about 8 years ago??

<P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Turntable on 08/14/05 10:14 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> It's a ripoff of a Mackie 32.8-Bus. Looks just like one.
> Didn't Behringer get in alot of trouble for copying Mackie
> about 8 years ago??

Behringer makes a good product. Never had a problem with it and it took a lot of abuse.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
> It's a ripoff of a Mackie 32.8-Bus. Looks just like one.
> Didn't Behringer get in alot of trouble for copying Mackie
> about 8 years ago??


That's mostly "urban legend," but like most legends, there is some truth to it. Both Mackie and Behringer spent a lot of money on lawyers, and the affair was eventually settled out of court. The details were not publicly disclosed (that was part of the settlement). Each company put their own spin on it, but there was no clear cut winner. The lawyers did make a lot of money in the process.

In a previous life, I sold products from both companies. Both make fine equipment, which really don't resemble each other as much as some folks would have you believe. Keep in mind, when you are dealing with analog mixers, there IS a lot of similarity from one brand to another. People have become comfortable with certain conventions and cosmetics, which makes it hard to be all that original. The manufacturers are more than willing to cooperate. They’ve learned from experience that putting the sliders in weird locations is not a good idea.

Pick up a Musician's Friend catalog and you will see very similar looking products from Mackie, Behringer, Alesis, Phonic, Yamaha, Peavey and others. Even the graphics and color choices are similar. Are they ripping each other off? Probably not, although some undoubtedly share the same OEM supplier. . These products are made to appear as the customer expects them to look. Hot pink was never a popular mixer color. Today, it’s hard to get very original with a 16 by 4 mixer. They've become just another commodity item.

Despite claims to the contrary that you might read on the Internet, I've found Behringer products to be an excellent value for the money spent. They are also quite reliable, even in rough service. As a dealer, we had very few (lower than average) quality control problems. 99.9% of it worked out of the box, did what it said it would do, and best of all, it stayed sold. It was very unusual for someone to return a Behringer product.

When I sold my company, I purchased some basic PA and recording equipment for my personal use. Most of it was Behringer. It's worked great. In fact, I'm still a customer since they keep coming out with new products. While there can be very good reasons for spending a lot more for equipment, for most people, you'll do just fine with Behringer gear. We use it every day in our radio station. You could do much worse.

Chuck
 
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