Construction

[Nellsson]

Is it true that one can--if very lucky--construct a small market FM for approximately 100K?

(a) How is the construction cost impacted, now that we are going HD?


Nellsson

 

[MattB]

> Is it true that one can--if very lucky--construct a small
> market FM for approximately 100K?
>
> (a) How is the construction cost impacted, now that we are
> going HD?
>
>
> Nellsson
>
Sure, but you won't get a FCC license with that price!<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[DudeFan]

> > Is it true that one can--if very lucky--construct a small
> > market FM for approximately 100K?
> >
> > (a) How is the construction cost impacted, now that we are
>
> > going HD?
> >
> >
> > Nellsson
> >
> Sure, but you won't get a FCC license with that price!
>

Good quality, but modest on-air and production facilities plus transmission plant would be about there. Skip the production room and assume mostly voice-tracked and you're probably at 65-75k.. including paint, carpeting, etc. But you'd have to be a demon at shopping and bargaining.

As for the license... that's a heck of another story. Non-comm would be cheaper.

 

[Nellsson]

> > Is it true that one can--if very lucky--construct a small
> > market FM for approximately 100K?
> >
> > (a) How is the construction cost impacted, now that we are
>
> > going HD?
> >
> >
> > Nellsson
> >
> Sure, but you won't get a FCC license with that price!
>

Thanks Matt

We're only concerned about Construction Costs. The CP is in hand and FCC-Approved for transfer.

Nellsson

 

[Nellsson]

> > > Is it true that one can--if very lucky--construct a
> small
> > > market FM for approximately 100K?
> > >
> > > (a) How is the construction cost impacted, now that we
> are
> >
> > > going HD?
> > >
> > >
> > > Nellsson
> > >
> > Sure, but you won't get a FCC license with that price!
> >
>
> Good quality, but modest on-air and production facilities
> plus transmission plant would be about there. Skip the
> production room and assume mostly voice-tracked and you're
> probably at 65-75k.. including paint, carpeting, etc. But
> you'd have to be a demon at shopping and bargaining.
>
> As for the license... that's a heck of another story.
> Non-comm would be cheaper.
>

Thanks for the input. My partner is an excellent shopper and pack-rat for hording equipment.

BTW, I haven't head experience in the Non-commercial band. How does one legally make money delivering to that audience? Any tips? Suggested readings?

 

[tpt]

If you've got the CP, then yes, that's do-able.

1. Tower: WHERE are you building? We built a 220 foot tower in 2004 for half the cost of a 200 foot tower in 2000, just because one tower was in West Virginia and the other, the expensive one, was in Ohio.

2. Transmitter. Of course depends on the power, but, for an example, a Class A that needs <2500 watts transmitter power may be considerably cheaper to build, than an A that needs > 2,500 simply because there are some good old boxes available used at a good price at this level such as the Harris 2.5 H or K, or the Collins 2.5 kw from the seventies. On the other hand, 3.5 kw boxes are scarce and many used fives require 3 phase power.

3. Studio equipment. We run one satellite fed station with just a Mackie, but we have a production studio for producing spots, (which are then networked into the computer). However, in this day and age, if you have a good editing program such as Cool Edit/Audion(?) (Whatever it's called now) or Sound Forge, you can get by with minimal production equipment--e.g. another Mackie, a good mike, CD player (for production music--there are companies that will trade libraries)& maybe a hybrid for telephone interviews.

4. Studios. Avoid the showplace syndrome. Two rented rooms on the second floor of a downtown building for a year or two may be prudent. Especially if a combined studio/transmitter site is impractical because of (lack of) utilities at the transmitter site. On the other hand, don't get talked into too long a lease, especially if terrain and zoning give you a choice of studio sites. An old house outside the prime commercial district may be a prudent investment, especially if the bank will give you a long mortgage.

 

[level42]

Well, it can be done...what is the station class? Do you need to build a tower? Are you co-locating the studio and transmitter? There's too many factors for the small amount of info provided to say for sure. I can say though, that I've seen it done for around 50K.

Drop me an email off-line with some details: [email protected]
Maybe I can be a bit more helpful with some details.

-Chris Hall
www.reelaudio.net

>

Is it true that one can--if very lucky--construct a small
> market FM for approximately 100K?
>
> (a) How is the construction cost impacted, now that we are
> going HD?
>
>
> Nellsson
>

 

[DudeFan]

> Thanks for the input. My partner is an excellent shopper
> and pack-rat for hording equipment.
>
> BTW, I haven't head experience in the Non-commercial band.
> How does one legally make money delivering to that audience?
> Any tips? Suggested readings?
>

As for suggested readings, I wish there were some. We're making it up as we go along. It helps that the "Less is More" campaign makes underwriting an easier sell... :30 radio ads end up having basically the same content that an underwriting announcement has. The trick is doing a format that lends itself to a passionate audience. A CHR format would be tough. Classical, Jazz, AAA, Christian AC all lend themselves to non-comm operation.

Here's what we have learned in our efforts.

1. Fancy studio furniture is snazzy, but if you are within a reasonable distance of an IKEA store, you can get modular desks, when combined with MidAltantic wooden racks and some cable trays, can make a really modern and snazzy set-up for 600-700 bucks rather than 2-4k.

2. As long as you don't have to worry about announcers beating up on the mics, there are a lot of bargains to be had in condensor mics that sound better than RE-20's on the air and often retail online for far less. Behringer and MXL condensors are pretty impressive... escpecially when run through an Omnia/Optimod. You can skip mic processors unless you have a format where the jocks are going to overdrive the crap out of them or simply have bad technique. Luckily, most of our staff worked in a station where there were no mic processors at all, so they were forced to work the mic properly.

3. Unless you absolutely HAVE TO buy the computer systems for the automation system from the supplier, buy them from DELL when they go on sale. DO, however, follow the supplier's recommendations on OS setup to the letter. That means usually douching the DELL install.

4. ON-Air lights can often by custom-made by an edge-lit sign supplier for far less than what the standard Fidelipac unit can be bought for.

Oh yeah, ebay when you can. Shop the sales when you can. Beat up sales reps when you can. Do all the painting yourself. Hire someone to do the flooring. Learned that one the hard way.

 

[oldnewbie]

Why do they call it "Non-Comm"

I have to say - it offends me when people speak of making profit running a radio station in the Non-Commercial band. Isn't that why the FCC reserved 20 little FM channels for folks who are more interested in serving the public than lining their own pockets?

With Commercial radio being as crappy as it is in serving the local public, why can't we leave 88 - 92 mhz. alone? Bad science, greed and politics have already killed LPFM - what more do the scum sucking profiteers want? Our first born daughters?

 

[taylorengineer]

Re: Why do they call it "Non-Comm"

> I have to say - it offends me when people speak of making
> profit running a radio station in the Non-Commercial band.
> Isn't that why the FCC reserved 20 little FM channels for
> folks who are more interested in serving the public than
> lining their own pockets?
>
> With Commercial radio being as crappy as it is in serving
> the local public, why can't we leave 88 - 92 mhz. alone?
> Bad science, greed and politics have already killed LPFM -
> what more do the scum sucking profiteers want? Our first
> born daughters?
>
Better to allow *limited* commercial announcements than have the Jimmy Swaggerts of the world take over the non comm band. Have you noticed how much religious gunk there is on the non comm band?
I'd rather see community radio with commercials than holy rollers beggin' for money!!(Sorry for the off-topic diatribe.)

 

[DudeFan]

Re: Why do they call it "Non-Comm"

> I have to say - it offends me when people speak of making
> profit running a radio station in the Non-Commercial band.
> Isn't that why the FCC reserved 20 little FM channels for
> folks who are more interested in serving the public than
> lining their own pockets?
>
> With Commercial radio being as crappy as it is in serving
> the local public, why can't we leave 88 - 92 mhz. alone?
> Bad science, greed and politics have already killed LPFM -
> what more do the scum sucking profiteers want? Our first
> born daughters?
>

The god-squad makes a HUGE profit running their non-commercial networks. They just don't do it with spots.

We're in it to provide a service and quality programming... but liek any other enterprise, you have to keep the lights on, pay of those things you can't barter, plus save for future upgrades and improvements. That means turning a profit.

 

[Neal]

WOW I must have missed this one early on.

I built a New FM( ok LPFM) for less than $50k However in order to secure the location of the transmitter/studios. and not worry about loosing them we had to Purchase the House at that location. the house and Property were around $400k

Sure you can Build a Full FM with $100K, But Weigh in the cost of rent for Tower space If you dont own the tower Or Cost Of buying the land If you do own the tower. same goes for building that the studios are located in.
Can we safely assume you already have the CP?

NN


> If you've got the CP, then yes, that's do-able.
>
> 1. Tower: WHERE are you building? We built a 220 foot
> tower in 2004 for half the cost of a 200 foot tower in 2000,
> just because one tower was in West Virginia and the other,
> the expensive one, was in Ohio.
>
> 2. Transmitter. Of course depends on the power, but, for an
> example, a Class A that needs 2,500 simply because there
> are some good old boxes available used at a good price at
> this level such as the Harris 2.5 H or K, or the Collins 2.5
> kw from the seventies. On the other hand, 3.5 kw boxes are
> scarce and many used fives require 3 phase power.
>
> 3. Studio equipment. We run one satellite fed station with
> just a Mackie, but we have a production studio for producing
> spots, (which are then networked into the computer).
> However, in this day and age, if you have a good editing
> program such as Cool Edit/Audion(?) (Whatever it's called
> now) or Sound Forge, you can get by with minimal production
> equipment--e.g. another Mackie, a good mike, CD player (for
> production music--there are companies that will trade
> libraries)& maybe a hybrid for telephone interviews.
>
> 4. Studios. Avoid the showplace syndrome. Two rented rooms
> on the second floor of a downtown building for a year or two
> may be prudent. Especially if a combined studio/transmitter
> site is impractical because of (lack of) utilities at the
> transmitter site. On the other hand, don't get talked into
> too long a lease, especially if terrain and zoning give you
> a choice of studio sites. An old house outside the prime
> commercial district may be a prudent investment, especially
> if the bank will give you a long mortgage.
>

 

[radiopilot]

You can go even cheaper with alot of the equipment if you shop around... My studio below of course is in my home but you'd never know from the signal coming out that it was!


http://home.earthlink.net/~nrios/nikon/studio1x.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~nrios/nikon/studio5x.jpg

If you go to the 'Community Radio' board the list of equipment is posted and it was all built for under $5k

Soon after I'll move the studio into an office space for free rent as long as I barter commercials for a friend who owns a building!

Radiopilot



> WOW I must have missed this one early on.
>
> I built a New FM( ok LPFM) for less than $50k However in
> order to secure the location of the transmitter/studios. and
> not worry about loosing them we had to Purchase the House at
> that location. the house and Property were around $400k
>
> Sure you can Build a Full FM with $100K, But Weigh in the
> cost of rent for Tower space If you dont own the tower Or
> Cost Of buying the land If you do own the tower. same goes
> for building that the studios are located in.
> Can we safely assume you already have the CP?
>

 

[JasonW]

Re: Why do they call it "Non-Comm"

AMEN! (Pun -intended-) -- JasonW

> > I have to say - it offends me when people speak of making
> > profit running a radio station in the Non-Commercial band.
>
> > Isn't that why the FCC reserved 20 little FM channels for
> > folks who are more interested in serving the public than
> > lining their own pockets?
> >
> > With Commercial radio being as crappy as it is in serving
> > the local public, why can't we leave 88 - 92 mhz. alone?
>
> > Bad science, greed and politics have already killed LPFM -
>
> > what more do the scum sucking profiteers want? Our first
> > born daughters?
> >
> Better to allow *limited* commercial announcements than have
> the Jimmy Swaggerts of the world take over the non comm
> band. Have you noticed how much religious gunk there is on
> the non comm band?
> I'd rather see community radio with commercials than holy
> rollers beggin' for money!!(Sorry for the off-topic
> diatribe.)
>

 

[ssnake]

Re: Why do they call it "Non-Comm"

> Better to allow *limited* commercial announcements than have
> the Jimmy Swaggerts of the world take over the non comm
> band. Have you noticed how much religious gunk there is on
> the non comm band?
> I'd rather see community radio with commercials than holy
> rollers beggin' for money!!(Sorry for the off-topic
> diatribe.)

Agreed. And many of the religious broadcasters are nationwide networks, with less local involvement than the big corporate groups. There was one religious non-comm in Georgia (WFRC Columbus) off the air for several weeks after an icing problem, which means they didn't care enough about the local audience to have an engineer on call, or they didn't buy backup equipment. Perhaps they burned up their transmitter with reflected power from lack of configuration or inspection. Maybe the transmitter shut off, and no one knew how to restart it?

If the station structure is non-profit, what's wrong with commercials? Better commercials than beg-a-thon guilt trips, I think. Have to pay the bills somehow.

 

[Nellsson]

> If you've got the CP, then yes, that's do-able.
>
> 1. Tower: WHERE are you building? We built a 220 foot
> tower in 2004 for half the cost of a 200 foot tower in 2000,
> just because one tower was in West Virginia and the other,
> the expensive one, was in Ohio.
>
> 2. Transmitter. Of course depends on the power, but, for an
> example, a Class A that needs 2,500 simply because there
> are some good old boxes available used at a good price at
> this level such as the Harris 2.5 H or K, or the Collins 2.5
> kw from the seventies. On the other hand, 3.5 kw boxes are
> scarce and many used fives require 3 phase power.
>
> 3. Studio equipment. We run one satellite fed station with
> just a Mackie, but we have a production studio for producing
> spots, (which are then networked into the computer).
> However, in this day and age, if you have a good editing
> program such as Cool Edit/Audion(?) (Whatever it's called
> now) or Sound Forge, you can get by with minimal production
> equipment--e.g. another Mackie, a good mike, CD player (for
> production music--there are companies that will trade
> libraries)& maybe a hybrid for telephone interviews.
>
> 4. Studios. Avoid the showplace syndrome. Two rented rooms
> on the second floor of a downtown building for a year or two
> may be prudent. Especially if a combined studio/transmitter
> site is impractical because of (lack of) utilities at the
> transmitter site. On the other hand, don't get talked into
> too long a lease, especially if terrain and zoning give you
> a choice of studio sites. An old house outside the prime
> commercial district may be a prudent investment, especially
> if the bank will give you a long mortgage.
>

The CP is in hand. For the record we’re locating on US Forest Land, high atop at 2300 speed bump (mountain), and we will utilize solar for powering up, similar to what KTAO-Northern New Mexico has been doing for several years Thanks to all for the constructive comments, suggestions.

You [ all ] are the best.

Nellsson
.