Consultant Eduardo would ruin radio

[DougD]

Here's a post where the frequent poster hereabouts would recommend blowing up a heritage San Francisco talk station, simply because it's demos are too old.

Get that?

DESTROY 810-KGO, a famous clear-channel (frequency-wise) signal station.
Man, that defies logic.

What's next? Turn off other stations? I guess radio really is a dead business if this kind of advice is followed.


http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,45561.10.html

Quote from: RadioStarOne on August 26, 2006, 02:40:20 pm
So David what would you do to increase the 25-54 numbers for KGO? Are the KGO's hosts getting a bit stale for the listeners? Or not putting 100% into their shows because of the Citadel cloud hanging over them? Or is it because of all the other N/T stations in the market splitting the pie into smaller and smaller pieces?


I would start looking for ways to get a set of 3 FMs, Santa Rosa to San Jose, to simulcast, and then be ready to turn the AM off.


Re: Phase 1 ratings are out!
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2006, 04:23:05 pm » Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give up the 810 dial space? Are you serious? Line up 3 FMs? [EDIT] What exactly do you program? Your VCR?


[EDIT=name calling]


[EDIT=name calling]

he was probly just kidding, man you can't take a joke?


No, I was not kidding. If they want KGO to live another decade, they have to move the format to FM. The only way to cover the entire MSA is to get an FM in the Santa Rosa area, one in the deep South Bay area and one for SF and network them (simulcast). The 810 can be used for something that may or may not make money after 4 or 5 years of simulcast with the FMs. But, as now, the 25-54s are going away, and billing is drying up... KGO is off about 30% from 2000 to 2005, and is going to be even worse now that they are out of the top 10 in 25-54.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 10:56:00 pm by Managing Board Editor »

 

[fred flintstone]

Consultant Eduardo would Save Talk Radio

Here's a post where the frequent poster hereabouts would recommend blowing up a heritage San Francisco talk station, simply because it's demos are too old.

Get that?

DESTROY 810-KGO, a famous clear-channel (frequency-wise) signal station.
Man, that defies logic.

What's next? Turn off other stations? I guess radio really is a dead business if this kind of advice is followed.

I often disagree with David on various topics, but on this one I think he's right on the money.
The audience for talk radio is almost as old as the audience for Standards and Real Oldies.
Talk radio has to do something to attract the younger listeners advertisers want or it will die.
The move of talk formats to FM stations has already begun.
And David did not suggest "Destroy" KGO - he'd move it.
People who want to hear music are increasingly leaving FM for satellite, the Internet or mp3 players (except for Black and Hispanic audience segments).
And people who did not grow up with AM will not listen to AM (which means anyone born too late for the baby boom and even some born late in the baby boom).
In addition, to moving Talk Radio has to get off political talk and get more into lifestyle and water-cooler issues.

As I write this, I am listening to XM's Real Oldies channel (50s on Five). Good stuff. Y'all should try it instead of complaining about a terrestrial radio format that had a long run (50 some years) as Top40 and then as Oldies or Real Oldies, BUT IS NOT COMING BACK TO TERRESTRIAL RADIO NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU COMPLAIN.

Major advertisers with major budgets find it more profitable to pitch younger listeners.
Advertisers which target 50+ listeners don't have big budgets.
Radio is a business with stockholders who expect profits.
Stop bitching.

 

[radiofriend1]

Re: Consultant Eduardo would Save Talk Radio

Here's a post where the frequent poster hereabouts would recommend blowing up a heritage San Francisco talk station, simply because it's demos are too old.

Get that?

DESTROY 810-KGO, a famous clear-channel (frequency-wise) signal station.
Man, that defies logic.

What's next? Turn off other stations? I guess radio really is a dead business if this kind of advice is followed.

I often disagree with David on various topics, but on this one I think he's right on the money.
The audience for talk radio is almost as old as the audience for Standards and Real Oldies.
Talk radio has to do something to attract the younger listeners advertisers want or it will die.
The move of talk formats to FM stations has already begun.
And David did not suggest "Destroy" KGO - he'd move it.
People who want to hear music are increasingly leaving FM for satellite, the Internet or mp3 players (except for Black and Hispanic audience segments).
And people who did not grow up with AM will not listen to AM (which means anyone born too late for the baby boom and even some born late in the baby boom).
In addition, to moving Talk Radio has to get off political talk and get more into lifestyle and water-cooler issues.

As I write this, I am listening to XM's Real Oldies channel (50s on Five). Good stuff. Y'all should try it instead of complaining about a terrestrial radio format that had a long run (50 some years) as Top40 and then as Oldies or Real Oldies, BUT IS NOT COMING BACK TO TERRESTRIAL RADIO NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU COMPLAIN.

Major advertisers with major budgets find it more profitable to pitch younger listeners.
Advertisers which target 50+ listeners don't have big budgets.
Radio is a business with stockholders who expect profits.
Stop bitching.

u are right. most radio folk compaining about oldies are jox or ex-jox in their 50's who see their cance to play frankie valli for another 10 yrs drifting away

"either move along with the times or get left behind"

 

[TheFonz]

Re: Consultant Eduardo would Save Talk Radio

As I write this, I am listening to XM's Real Oldies channel (50s on Five). Good stuff. Y'all should try it instead of complaining about a terrestrial radio format that had a long run (50 some years) as Top40 and then as Oldies or Real Oldies, BUT IS NOT COMING BACK TO TERRESTRIAL RADIO NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU COMPLAIN.

Major advertisers with major budgets find it more profitable to pitch younger listeners.

Yup. But the problem for radio is that soon there will be no "younger" listeners. And even with the remote chance that terrestrial radio needs 55+ in the future because no one else will be listeneing, it could never do what satellite does. So we Oldies fans shouldn't complain about paying $12 a month for satellite. We're paying for cell phones, internet access, cable/satellite tv, etc. For music radio listeners, satellite is a necessity. Talk radio will survive; music radio will close its doors. Guess that's why Clear Channel is selling about 70 of its stations nationwide.

 

[DougD]

Re: Consultant Eduardo would Save Talk Radio

Here's a post where the frequent poster hereabouts would recommend blowing up a heritage San Francisco talk station, simply because it's demos are too old.

Get that?

DESTROY 810-KGO, a famous clear-channel (frequency-wise) signal station.
Man, that defies logic.

What's next? Turn off other stations? I guess radio really is a dead business if this kind of advice is followed.

I often disagree with David on various topics, but on this one I think he's right on the money.
The audience for talk radio is almost as old as the audience for Standards and Real Oldies.
Talk radio has to do something to attract the younger listeners advertisers want or it will die.
The move of talk formats to FM stations has already begun.
And David did not suggest "Destroy" KGO - he'd move it.
People who want to hear music are increasingly leaving FM for satellite, the Internet or mp3 players (except for Black and Hispanic audience segments).
And people who did not grow up with AM will not listen to AM (which means anyone born too late for the baby boom and even some born late in the baby boom).
In addition, to moving Talk Radio has to get off political talk and get more into lifestyle and water-cooler issues.

As I write this, I am listening to XM's Real Oldies channel (50s on Five). Good stuff. Y'all should try it instead of complaining about a terrestrial radio format that had a long run (50 some years) as Top40 and then as Oldies or Real Oldies, BUT IS NOT COMING BACK TO TERRESTRIAL RADIO NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU COMPLAIN.

Major advertisers with major budgets find it more profitable to pitch younger listeners.
Advertisers which target 50+ listeners don't have big budgets.
Radio is a business with stockholders who expect profits.
Stop bitching.

Bitching? What a load of...

SO you think blowing up- or turning silent- A LEGENDARY HERITAGE STATION is a great idea?

[EDIT]

That kind of advice would lose a consultant clients.

David's solution to KGO's aging listenership was to shut the station down. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.

Here's the quote..

So David what would you do to increase the 25-54 numbers for KGO? Are the KGO's hosts getting a bit stale for the listeners? Or not putting 100% into their shows because of the Citadel cloud hanging over them? Or is it because of all the other N/T stations in the market splitting the pie into smaller and smaller pieces?

I would start looking for ways to get a set of 3 FMs, Santa Rosa to San Jose, to simulcast, and then be ready to turn the AM off.

Oh, go with three translator FMs.

Right. And then gut the longtime talk show local hosts and put pot heads like Opie and Andy and Stern wannabes on.

That unintelligent design would count for a lot and of course bring all the right listeners.

The real problem David has is his AGISM. He has what some have against races, like anti Semitism. He sees anyone over 55 as old, boring and not worth any advertiser's time.

He apparently has no interest in reframing radio to serve a BROAD audience, in the public interest, necessity...

Okay, WLS Chicago or WOR New York or WIOD Miami et. al., gets too old of an audience. David recommends turning those stations off too and putting in "young" talk radio programming.

Soon, your favorite local announcer will be no more.

If radio continues to act on recommendations such as David's lame-brain idea, radio will kill itself, no need for Ipods or satellite radio to hurt the medium.

Geniuses like David, who never likes any kind of format appealing to older listeners, are like a cancer on this industry.

You don't have to look far on this board, however, to see how radio is shooting itself.

Don't shoot me. I'm just a listener/ messenger.


[EDIT=ad hominem comment]

 

[11south]

David is right, AM is dying...News/Talk is not. Just need to change distribution channel to FM. I liken it to having a great store in a dying strip mall...pack up shop and open in the new mall that has more traffic. Problem is; some AM Talk stations only sell Sansabelts, and no matter what mall you're in; no one under 80 will buy Sansabelt. Might think of picking up Joseph Abboud, etc.

I don't think you have to be Opie and Anthony all the time. What Jimmy DeCastro and the boys did with AM 1000 in Chicago was great, I thought. Mike McConnell on WLW is a great talent. We just have to stop political talk 100 percent of the time and concentrate on health, home and pocketbook.

 

[DougD]

David is right, AM is dying...News/Talk is not. Just need to change distribution channel to FM. I liken it to having a great store in a dying strip mall...pack up shop and open in the new mall that has more traffic. Problem is; some AM Talk stations only sell Sansabelts, and no matter what mall you're in; no one under 80 will buy Sansabelt. Might think of picking up Joseph Abboud, etc.

I don't think you have to be Opie and Anthony all the time. What Jimmy DeCastro and the boys did with AM 1000 in Chicago was great, I thought. Mike McConnell on WLW is a great talent. We just have to stop political talk 100 percent of the time and concentrate on health, home and pocketbook.

I agree on the latter points, lifestyle talk. Talk radio was great years ago when there were more shows like BRUCE WILLIAMS' Talk Net and other not necessarily political shows.

However, I think the idea of moving the talk format to FM is a pipe dream.
There are very few such stations on FM now. I can only think of a handful.

Besides, the FM dial is too full as it is.

The bozo broadcasters can't find any room for OLDIES on FM. How are they gonna find room for ANOTHER AGING format?

Those lard asses have already messed up FM and AM. Putting talk on FM won't help.

 

[11south]

David is right, AM is dying...News/Talk is not. Just need to change distribution channel to FM. I liken it to having a great store in a dying strip mall...pack up shop and open in the new mall that has more traffic. Problem is; some AM Talk stations only sell Sansabelts, and no matter what mall you're in; no one under 80 will buy Sansabelt. Might think of picking up Joseph Abboud, etc.

I don't think you have to be Opie and Anthony all the time. What Jimmy DeCastro and the boys did with AM 1000 in Chicago was great, I thought. Mike McConnell on WLW is a great talent. We just have to stop political talk 100 percent of the time and concentrate on health, home and pocketbook.

I agree on the latter points, lifestyle talk. Talk radio was great years ago when there were more shows like BRUCE WILLIAMS' Talk Net and other not necessarily political shows.

However, I think the idea of moving the talk format to FM is a pipe dream.
There are very few such stations on FM now. I can only think of a handful.

Besides, the FM dial is too full as it is.

The bozo broadcasters can't find any room for OLDIES on FM. How are they gonna find room for ANOTHER AGING format?

Those lard asses have already messed up FM and AM. Putting talk on FM won't help.

Hey it's all about money. I'm in News/Talk sales. Have been for 20 years in some fashion or another, we have to have some access to the transactional business in the 25-54 demo. There is not enough business out there in the 35-64 demo, or direct business to run these stations profitably. I know the 55+ demo has money, but try keeping a sales staff motivated when their counterparts at the LITE Rock station work half as hard and make twice the money...same thing for Oldies.

It's all about the money and the access to it. Talk will always have a home...just need programmers who know what compelling talk is.

 

[radiofriend1]

Hey it's all about money. I'm in News/Talk sales. Have been for 20 years in some fashion or another, we have to have some access to the transactional business in the 25-54 demo. There is not enough business out there in the 35-64 demo, or direct business to run these stations profitably. I know the 55+ demo has money, but try keeping a sales staff motivated when their counterparts at the LITE Rock station work half as hard and make twice the money...same thing for Oldies.

It's all about the money and the access to it.

plz tell us any business where it isn't all about the money...........isn't that the whole idea of being IN BUSINESS? create a product or service consumers want, deliver it the way they want and generate a profit

why do radio people not get this???? dude it ain't the birth of rock n' roll dayz any more..............get over elvis and happy dayz
REAL WORLD RADIO (or computers or cars or restaurants or whatever) is about making money----we live in a free enterprise system

so to those who are stroking out over the state of radio in 2006........either buy your own station, put on a pirate or internet station

 

[DougD]

Sorry. I'm in an argumentive mood tonight. I'm taking no prisoners.

So,.... one part of radio doesn't work (i.e., a heritage AM news-talk station, KGO, San Fransisco, doesn't make the advertisers happy because it doesn't attract "the right people." "He's one of THOSE."

.....You get rid of it? Turn it off?

By that line of thinking, the entire AM band may well be shut down in the not too distant future if it attracts too many OLD listeners.

Radio is wrecking itself these days. No need to fear the competition media.

 

[radiofriend1]

Sorry. I'm in an argumentive mood tonight. I'm taking no prisoners.

So,.... one part of radio doesn't work (i.e., a heritage AM news-talk station, KGO, San Fransisco, doesn't make the advertisers happy because it doesn't attract "the right people." "He's one of THOSE."

.....You get rid of it? Turn it off?

By that line of thinking, the entire AM band may well be shut down in the not too distant future if it attracts too many OLD listeners.

Radio is wrecking itself these days. No need to fear the competition media.

take a pill dude. the am band is not going away

but maybe u should think about doing so. radio will never move fwd with victims like u being part of it

 

[bobeeboxer]

In Albuquerque KOB AM is # 1 there Demo is Old 50+ yet the Ad folks here buy them like a thirsty man in the Dessert! They do not get results for their advertisers but they buy because they are #1 and they tell their clients hey I am buying the #1 station so go figure and yes most of their biz is non national biz.

 

[radiofriend1]

In Albuquerque KOB AM is # 1 there Demo is Old 50+ yet the Ad folks here buy them like a thirsty man in the Dessert! They do not get results for their advertisers but they buy because they are #1 and they tell their clients hey I am buying the #1 station so go figure and yes most of their biz is non national biz.

proving there is room for everybody (and i'd bet their average listener is more like 60+ but still........u find a way)

 

[fred flintstone]

take a pill dude. the am band is not going away

but maybe u should think about doing so. radio will never move fwd with victims like u being part of it

The audience is going away, has been for some time.
The music formats have gone away.
The talk formats have started going away, too.
But AM band is not going away - not as long as there are preachers and bowel cleanse infomercials.

I don't know who is buy KOB but it's not ad agencies. They buy demos. That's why they have media buyers and media research departments.
And over in Phoenix, talk station KTAR is moving to FM.

 

[OldGringo]

The bozo broadcasters can't find any room for OLDIES on FM. How are they gonna find room for ANOTHER AGING format?

MOVING, not "putting" talk on FM makes the SAME programming attractive to 25-54. The move can be dramatic, a la WTOP, or developmental, like KSL... where the AM may remain talk, too... or go somewhere else once the transition is complete.

Oldies is nearly a pure 55+ format. No income is the problem, not no listeners.

 

[OldGringo]

Re: Consultant Eduardo would Save Talk Radio

SO you think blowing up- or turning silent- A LEGENDARY HERITAGE STATION is a great idea?

That kind of advice would lose a consultant clients.

David's solution to KGO's aging listenership was to shut the station down. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.
The real problem David has is his AGISM. He has what some have against races, like anti Semitism. He sees anyone over 55 as old, boring and not worth any advertiser's time.

He apparently has no interest in reframing radio to serve a BROAD audience, in the public interest, necessity...

Okay, WLS Chicago or WOR New York or WIOD Miami et. al., gets too old of an audience. David recommends turning those stations off too and putting in "young" talk radio programming.

The suggestion is that KGO begin, soon, to simulcast its existing programming on FM, and to regain the lost 35-54 demos. No change in format or talent, just a change in venue.

Listeners over 55 are not attractive because advertisers do not want them. This is not a radio problem, but a reality of marketing.

When a market like San Francisco has nearly 100 stations in the Metro (from Satan Rosa to Gilroy), there is no such thing as a broad based radio station. There are only segmented stations with different appeals to different groups.

 

[OldGringo]

The audience is going away, has been for some time.
The music formats have gone away.
The talk formats have started going away, too.
But AM band is not going away - not as long as there are preachers and bowel cleanse infomercials.

I don't know who is buy KOB but it's not ad agencies. They buy demos. That's why they have media buyers and media research departments.
And over in Phoenix, talk station KTAR is moving to FM.

This week, Cox started simulcasting News Talk WOKV (50 kw at 690) on FM, and two months ago, Clear did the same with WNLS... a full move to FM. KSL is in a simulcast transition, as is KTAR. And I hear rumors of adding FM to many heritage N/T stations, from KFI to WSB.

 

[OldGringo]

In Albuquerque KOB AM is # 1 there Demo is Old 50+ yet the Ad folks here buy them like a thirsty man in the Dessert! They do not get results for their advertisers but they buy because they are #1 and they tell their clients hey I am buying the #1 station so go figure and yes most of their biz is non national biz.

proving there is room for everybody (and i'd bet their average listener is more like 60+ but still........u find a way)

Average age is 59, about par for an AM talker. That means that over 60% of the listeners are in demos that most advertisers will not buy.

For a while, there is money in local direct accounts, especially in small markets like ABQ and beyond. But in the larger markets, agencys control the difference between profit and loss, and there is no billing for 55+ listeners to be had.

 

[radiolover78]

It is interesting that news and talk stations are moving over to FM, but could that mean before we know it that music will "die" on FM? I highly doubt it, but sometimes I still wonder.

 

[ricoontheradio]

It is interesting that news and talk stations are moving over to FM, but could that mean before we know it that music will "die" on FM? I highly doubt it, but sometimes I still wonder.

If the radio industry can ever figure out how to properly market, and implement, HD Radio, it is possible that music channels will move to HD in a bigger mass. This would leave room on FM for News, News/Talk, etc.

The problem now is that HD isn't being marketed very well. It also doesn't "solve a problem" and until it does, it is not viable to the average consumer.