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Consultants=Satan?

I saw a topic on another board that brings up a nagging question for me considering most insiders and, in fact, listeners with whom I speak prefer a wide variety of artists and deeper cuts along with the same old overpolished turds. I'm pretty wet behind the ears in commercial radio, having spent a LOT of time announcing for nonprofits and working in other media so this is all new to me.

None of our airstaff likes the slimming down of playlists and eyes always roll in meetings when the topic of consultancy comes up. Management's argument is always that, despite the limited range of artists, our numbers go up book after book. Books I've read on the topic say pretty much the same thing: if it doesn't test, it doesn't get played.

What's your experience with consultants and narrowed playlists and how it all impacts your ratings, a wide sampling of listeners (not just the usual phone and prize pigs) and airstaff morale?

Thanks
 
Sporque said:
What's your experience with consultants and narrowed playlists and how it all impacts your ratings, a wide sampling of listeners (not just the usual phone and prize pigs) and airstaff morale?

Its real simple: if you play the music most of your audience wants to hear - you win. The decision that comes into play is when at what point do you determine what the "universal appeal" cutoff is going to be. Research should be in place to determine what to play and not; and research is only asking the audience what they want to hear.

Some less-experienced programmers may poo-poo research and think "they know what the audience wants" - which generally translates "I'll play what I like".

Generally, the deeper you go into album cuts, the less likely your going to appeal to your entire audience and thats going to hurt your AQH. Art comes into play by giving the audience some variety without turning them away. I personally stage deeper cuts to make their airplay special.

There are exceptions to every rule though.

Consultants should be viewed as your partner to make your station a success. You can learn a lot from the good ones. And if you don't understand - ask questions. Consider them a great resource.
 
Thanks Ed

I recently read a great book on the history of radio, "Something in the Air," that had a chapter on testing and consultancy that echoes a lot of what you said. It's just a bit sad to me that our policy is to kill the wow tracks first when hours are overscheduled. But, in our market, active rock gets it's ass kicked by classics in the 25-40 demo without fail. And another classic station that played deep classics developed a rabid local following switched to triple-A within two years. You still see "Bring back The Hog" stickers frequently here, but I guess not one of those folks had an Arbitron diary.

Thanks ag'in for humoring the newbie!
 
I had to voice my opinon on this subject. From the early 1980s till 2006,I was a loyal listener to classic rock stations(the format use to be known as album oriented rock). I finally switch to Sirius Radio in Aug 2006.
The reason I switched is because classic rock stations have been ruined by consultants. :(

Who the hell wants to hear the same 25-50 classic rock songs day in/day out?

Consultants are EVIL to me for taking the life out of classic rock stations across the USA!!! :mad:

The rest of the blame goes to station owners who are being brain washed & hypontized by the consultants. ;D
 
The dilema is... that the masses, those folks whom advertisers are desparately trying to reach, these masses prefer polished turds. But, rather than try to elevate the masses catalog of what they love to love.... Radio stations find it more profitable to simply play to what the masses already love. The adverstiser are interested in what attracts the most 'flies to the $#*%'. They 'flies' may mot stay long, but, as long as they are many different 'flies' coming to feed on the polished turds, then there's no need to go deeper. Whatever limited and vapip playlists gets the most 'flies' day in and day out, is all that the bean counters are concerned with.

The idea of presenting great music is relegated to non-profits, as there is no maximum profit in playing great music. The masses want their regurgitated meal to stay the same... People of that intellect are just the people that advertisers seek in this world where the bottom line is an end that justifies all means to it, including the debasing of a great cultural musicl heritage to 'polished turds'.

Consultants are not against great music. Consultants are interested in what the common masses want the most. And that, rarely equates to anything but polished turds. So, where radio could be a culturally uplifting force in the society as a whole, it is instead relegated to pandering to the masses, and all of the maliase that that brings.

The inegrity of the music played on radio can would never give the owners of these stations a bad nights sleep. Only the bottom line up or down gives them pause.

Pure Capitalism is a pretty souless venture. The king of souless venture that Satan would be proud of. :-\
 
TheRover said:
Consultants are interested in what the common masses want the most. And that, rarely equates to anything but polished turds. So, where radio could be a culturally uplifting force in the society as a whole, it is instead relegated to pandering to the masses, and all of the maliase that that brings.

Disagree.

Consultants are interested in what their clients (the station owners) want them to deliver. Blame "The Consultants" all you want - but its the station owners who hire them for one purpose. If the station owners didn't hire them, there wouldn't be any consultants.
 
Sporque said:
It's just a bit sad to me that our policy is to kill the wow tracks first when hours are overscheduled. But, in our market, active rock gets it's ass kicked by classics in the 25-40 demo without fail. And another classic station that played deep classics developed a rabid local following switched to triple-A within two years. You still see "Bring back The Hog" stickers frequently here, but I guess not one of those folks had an Arbitron diary.Thanks ag'in for humoring the newbie!

I agree with you on the wow tracks. It doesn't have to be that way.

But remember the consultant is there to consult. How much you as a programmer follow the directives of any hired consultant is a decision between you, your GM and probably your ownership.
 
TheRover said:
The dilema is... that the masses, those folks whom advertisers are desparately trying to reach, these masses prefer polished turds. But, rather than try to elevate the masses catalog of what they love to love.... Radio stations find it more profitable to simply play to what the masses already love. The adverstiser are interested in what attracts the most 'flies to the $#*%'. They 'flies' may mot stay long, but, as long as they are many different 'flies' coming to feed on the polished turds, then there's no need to go deeper. Whatever limited and vapip playlists gets the most 'flies' day in and day out, is all that the bean counters are concerned with.

The idea of presenting great music is relegated to non-profits, as there is no maximum profit in playing great music. The masses want their regurgitated meal to stay the same... People of that intellect are just the people that advertisers seek in this world where the bottom line is an end that justifies all means to it, including the debasing of a great cultural musicl heritage to 'polished turds'.

Consultants are not against great music. Consultants are interested in what the common masses want the most. And that, rarely equates to anything but polished turds. So, where radio could be a culturally uplifting force in the society as a whole, it is instead relegated to pandering to the masses, and all of the maliase that that brings.

This is all true... and bear in mind that we who post on a radio board are not part of the masses of casual listeners who make up the majority of the ratings for commercial stations. We are a small minority of radio and music aficionados, who have had radios practically "glued to our ears" most of our lives.

Because of our intensive listening habits, we've heard all the hits over and over again ad nauseum, much more often than the typical casual listener of the masses who just blips the radio on for their commute, or as a background for their workday. They want to hear something that they already know they enjoy, something tried and true, something they can sing every lyric to or play every "air guitar" lick to, as they use it as an innocuous and unchallenging background for their daily activities.

The masses generally don't call radio stations (or post on a radio board) if they don't like (or don't know) what they're hearing. They just press a button and change the station. If one station isn't playing one of their favorite hits, surely another is at any given moment. To try to prevent this from happening and keep their ratings up among the masses, commercial stations must play practically all extremely well-known hit favorites, especially during the weekday workday and prime commute hours.

Many people on these boards post things like "It's so boring! Who wants to hear the same songs every day over and over again? I don't, so how could anyone else?" This is assuming that we are representative of the masses. We're not! They're a "silent majority", and, they do want to hear the same songs every day, as the ratings, perhaps unfortunately, always bear out.
 
My comment in this, even though is it's unproven is that sometimes you have to do a oh wow track a time or two that way you can add to the playlist.

Maybe I am one of those music fanatics but what I miss isn't the deep tracks as it's the tracks that had success but are not played (for instance some of the Don Henley 1980s playlist) so we can hear Hells Bells for the 20 millionth time.

One of the issues I find is the testing is done in snipits (look at the premier radio network testing Clear Channel uses (Ratethemusic.com) for example)... how many of us flip the song in 10 seconds as soon as we hear the first couple of beats of it... I would like to see CC test the first part of each of those songs and see if the numbers jive with say 2 minutes in like how I find they sample.

That's maybe why I love small/medium market radio for.... more variety and where you can still hear the new rock with the classics more often IMO.
 
Vapip. VAPIP? What a great word!

A good consultant, and there are some, will come into your market with fresh eyes and ears. He/She will find the achiles heel of your target cometitor, and show you how to exploit it for your gain. Or they'll find a whole in programming that needs patching, like clearing clutter, wrong music in dayparts, bad rotation (which is what you're REALLY railing against), and promotion/slogans/engineering upgrades.

They're all not evil. I believe some are wrong in pushing "tested" music in Oldies and Classic Rock formats, limiting the playlist to 400 songs. We're talking about songs that are 20-40 years old or so, some older. The "evergreens" (like Satisfaction) need to be carefully played, as they are truly burnt to a crisp. That is one arguement that I've never won with a consultant. The deep tracks need to be showcased, and are better left to late afternoon drive, evening, overnights and weekends. There's no need to play "Hell's Bells" or "Baby Love" for the 20 millionth + 1 time at 10:15 at night. Roll out the Joe Cocker, Buddy Holly.

A good consultant will raise ratings. Better ratings mean better revenues. Better revenues mean better salaries, benefits, promotions.

Allegedly.
 
amfmsw said:
I believe some are wrong in pushing "tested" music in Oldies and Classic Rock formats, limiting the playlist to 400 songs. We're talking about songs that are 20-40 years old or so, some older. The "evergreens" (like Satisfaction) need to be carefully played, as they are truly burnt to a crisp. That is one arguement that I've never won with a consultant. The deep tracks need to be showcased, and are better left to late afternoon drive, evening, overnights and weekends. There's no need to play "Hell's Bells" or "Baby Love" for the 20 millionth + 1 time at 10:15 at night. Roll out the Joe Cocker, Buddy Holly.

A good consultant will raise ratings. Better ratings mean better revenues. Better revenues mean better salaries, benefits, promotions.

Allegedly.

Funny, but "Satisfaction" is one of a nadful of songs, that I NEVER tire of....

BUT... 99% of the polished "gems" that CR Radio plays, is offensive and insulting to my music taste to hear. And ther's the problem.... the general masses, don't have those sensibilites.... They think it's neat ot hear Boston... again, and again...

I will never be one of those listeners. And I do not associate with those that are.
 
Q?

Do you like to hear the incorrect mix but very close Stereo version, or the mono 45 RPM purist "Satisfaction".
 
My problem with "all this"....radio stations lack character....no matter where you travel in the USA, turn to a classic rock station and it's all the same :'(.....you can lay the blame on whoever you want.
 
Go to the "Classic Rock A to Z why?" thread on the Memphis board. I proposed there that we start referring to consultants instead as "insultants" because they insult our collective intelligence! If insultants were really doing their job, no one would be going to XM or Sirius, would they?
 
firepoint525 said:
Go to the "Classic Rock A to Z why?" thread on the Memphis board. I proposed there that we start referring to consultants instead as "insultants" because they insult our collective intelligence! If insultants were really doing their job, no one would be going to XM or Sirius, would they?

The Business Model of Corporate Radio is degraded to such a point (and this NOT recent) that insulting a few "musical purists" or "Elitists" as they would like to refer to folks like me (but I'm not.... ) is no big deal to them.... it's part and parcel of what they consider acceptable collateral damage.... so that, the "Masses" are not insutled..... It's the "elites" that are flocking to Satellite..... No Big Deal.... there's tens of Millions of terrestrial joe schmoe listeners .... that, are really just looking for a give-away, and to be humored..... the "Music" is just there for background, the "real" story is the "bits" and the contests.... Their sorry playlists act like a theme song.... you don't want to change that. The "real" program of radio is not great music.... it's an intentional delivery of crap, becaude that's what the record companies have more of than anything else to sell. It's a marketing thing..... Like, as if the record companies owned the public airwaves... For their benefit, and not the public's benefit. But, if Joe Schmoe says he's happy with crap.... then crap is King. If the easily made crap sells..... why bother making or marketing anything else??

"If you're dumb enough to listen to and like the crap we program.... then you're just the people that we'd like to interest in (place your product advertisement here . . .) :)
 
firepoint525 said:
I proposed there that we start referring to consultants instead as "insultants" because they insult our collective intelligence! If insultants were really doing their job, no one would be going to XM or Sirius, would they?

The numbers of people going to satellite radio within each individual market is still very small compared to the numbers of people still listening to only their local terrestrial radio.
 
Eli Polonsky said:
firepoint525 said:
I proposed there that we start referring to consultants instead as "insultants" because they insult our collective intelligence! If insultants were really doing their job, no one would be going to XM or Sirius, would they?

The numbers of people going to satellite radio within each individual market is still very small compared to the numbers of people still listening to only their local terrestrial radio.
Give it time.
 
Sporque said:
I saw a topic on another board that brings up a nagging question for me considering most insiders and, in fact, listeners with whom I speak prefer a wide variety of artists and deeper cuts along with the same old overpolished turds. I'm pretty wet behind the ears in commercial radio, having spent a LOT of time announcing for nonprofits and working in other media so this is all new to me.

None of our airstaff likes the slimming down of playlists and eyes always roll in meetings when the topic of consultancy comes up. Management's argument is always that, despite the limited range of artists, our numbers go up book after book. Books I've read on the topic say pretty much the same thing: if it doesn't test, it doesn't get played.

What's your experience with consultants and narrowed playlists and how it all impacts your ratings, a wide sampling of listeners (not just the usual phone and prize pigs) and airstaff morale?

Thanks

This was a great thread of discussion, thanks Sporque! Now my 2 cents:

Consultants. Like everything else in life, some are better than others. MANY are preaching to the choir, while some can actually enhance your products. I've worked with some good & bad consultants: from Randy Michaels to Rick Sklar, Jacobs Media to McVay. Wanna guess what they all have in common...the foundations of their strategies are built around programming to arbitron's methodology and the strengthening of a listeners recall.

Some great postings on this matter, and yet not ONE mention of what I believe to be the biggest factor in the denegration of rock radio programming: you guessed it, programming to win the book NOT the hearts and minds of their audience. Creating in quarter-hours segments, hoping to lure new cume instead of developing a texture that is without boundaries.

With that said, some of the "blame" has to fall on to the shoulders of the listener, or should I say, their listening habits. The research compiled on their habits push the programmers into a corner:

"Why program for a 24 hour day, when they only listen for less than an hour maybe once or twice a day?"

"How can I get them to come back if they only listened for five minutes?"


Unfortunately for most of us here, the listeners are not musicologists like we are. We also know that most will tune out(and turn off) almost anything that's deemed too unfamiliar by the listener. That's why when it comes to deepening the classic rock library, I go deep into established heritage artists only. An "unfamiliar" deep track from Rush, Zeppelin or The Stones is more likely to be "accepted" than say, an unfamiliar deep track from Alice Cooper or Molly Hatchet.

As the PPM continues to evolve, I hope that this will help many programmers get out of the rut. But that won't change the way listeners use our product. Until then, we have to keep building new ways to win the respect of the listeners, while keeping true to the basic programming foundations needed to keep "the train on the track". Check your ego by listening to the audience, let them help guide you in the direction THEY want. You might be surprised what can happen when you empower your listeners!

And finally...it's cliche, but it's true: "you can't get hurt by what you don't play". You don't have to play something just because you can...or because you think it shows off your stations' diversity. These are times that a good consultant can be a great help by helping you focus objectively on your music.

Which brings us back to the beginning, consultants...uh, what was the question? ;D
 
Good message, wangchung!

It seems to me that almost every album track by the Beatles, for instance, is airplay-worthy, with the obvious exception of "Revolution #9"! ;D But maybe I'm a little biased because I'm a Beatles fan. Most of their B-sides get almost as much airplay as their A-sides, and some were nearly as big hits as the A-sides. ("Day Tripper," for example.)
 
If you an instinct, as some normal poeple really, actually do....about what is good music, whether it be Classical, Jazz, Country, or, Rock.... then you do not need a consultant to advise you on what to play and what not to play!!!

Even Lee Abrams has taken another look at what he helped to create!!


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-abrams/breaking-out-of-a-musical_b_61161.html


Old and Bad Habits die a Very Very Hard death... do they not ...??
 
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