Cost of running 1190

[Paul Boomer]

Good find, Dr. Akbar!

Does anyone have any idea what the pattern is on this array?

 

[ajhenderson]

$50k a month? That's it? Where do I sign up? I understand this will be unpopular, but if you turned the station into a complete prostitute, you could bill 3-4x that. Why is a nothing station with a bad night signal on the AM band trying to compete with the big FMs?

 

[CW]

CC did not want to spend the money for that, especially since they just spent $18million for 1190 buying it from Radio One (what a joke of a ROI for CC...RO though was laughing to the bank!) but it aint gonna happen now.. Ouch...18 big ones for a dead AM in an FM market. Randy Michaels must have had something on L. Mays as that price made absolutely no sense.

Speaking of strange arrays like 11~90's, wonder what the ERP is on this Houston gem: http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/info?call=KNTH&service=AM Check out the satellite view of the xmttr site...if those nearby homes got surveyed, bet KNTH's ratings would be higher ;D

1070 has the most metal in the air of any AM because of numebr of towers and their height. The 9 to 11 tower array is south of 1960 and west of I45 in Houston...The ERP?? Less than 1190s.. The daytime ERP with 10KW is about 80KW heading SE with about 15KW ERP off the backside...(1190 runs 50KW TPO and its ERP is 280KW east/west) Night time, 1070 is 5KW TPO and only 55KW....nothing off the back, it all goes to the SE...ALMOST as tight a pattern as 1190..
9 of the towers are in three columns (top to bottom in a line that is going 70 deg down from top) parallel but each column starts slightly higher that previous (in a row view, it angles UP about 45 degrees across the sets).....the other two towers (shorter) used in the daytime form almost straight line from the far left top to the far bottom right tower.. and sit between columns 1-2 and 2-3 forming a 4th row that almost runs E-W true! Whew....I hope that explained it...

 

[DrAkbar]

1070 has the most metal in the air of any AM because of numebr of towers and their height. The 9 to 11 tower array is south of 1960 and west of I45 in Houston...The ERP?? Less than 1190s.. The daytime ERP with 10KW is about 80KW heading SE with about 15KW ERP off the backside...(1190 runs 50KW TPO and its ERP is 280KW east/west) Night time, 1070 is 5KW TPO and only 55KW....nothing off the back, it all goes to the SE...ALMOST as tight a pattern as 1190..
9 of the towers are in three columns (top to bottom in a line that is going 70 deg down from top) parallel but each column starts slightly higher that previous (in a row view, it angles UP about 45 degrees across the sets).....the other two towers (shorter) used in the daytime form almost straight line from the far left top to the far bottom right tower.. and sit between columns 1-2 and 2-3 forming a 4th row that almost runs E-W true! Whew....I hope that explained it...

All that, and a big goose egg 12+ in Arbitron!

Back to The Mighty 11~90, someone mentioned a bidniss format would serve that station well. In Phoenix KFNN has built a loyal audience and has an upscale advertiser base WITHOUT depending on ratings. They're 15~Ten with 22k days (2 sticks) and a whopping 100 watts out of four sticks at night. For those who think the night signal of 11~90 blows, you outta try to hear this one! The other nice thing about the bidniss format is the target listener uses it primarily during daylight hours. Hmmmmmm....wonder if CC would take $450,000 for 11~90??

 

[LibertyNT]

Well 1190's NIghttime pattern in its entirety from when Mclendon First got it was bad. It has always been a daytime beast. Although Mclendon made a terrible mistake that caused the station to go under. You see Mclendon never thought that there would be much growth outside of the inner cities so he changed the Night pattern to cover Dallas And Ft.Worth and the cities in between ONLY! Thats also what caused the station to go under was that Growth DID happen north of the area. So at one time 1190 DID have a N S patter.. before Mclendon Changed it

 

[CW]

Well 1190's NIghttime pattern in its entirety from when Mclendon First got it was bad. It has always been a daytime beast. Although Mclendon made a terrible mistake that caused the station to go under. You see Mclendon never thought that there would be much growth outside of the inner cities so he changed the Night pattern to cover Dallas And Ft.Worth and the cities in between ONLY! Thats also what caused the station to go under was that Growth DID happen north of the area. So at one time 1190 DID have a N S patter.. before Mclendon Changed it

But the previous post said that was in the 1980s when Salem owned it...which was MUCH later after McL had installed the 12 tower night array at Rockwall....Yes, the old 3 tower site south of Dallas had a somewhat N-S pattern but at the time, Ft Worth was a separate market, iirc...When McL built the new night site, it was to cover the much coveted Ft Worth market that was starting to be added in with Dallas numbers...true, he screwed up with not realizing the growth to the north...but when he built it, Plano was still a bunch of cow pastures.
Shame they never tried to file for something from the daytime site....and CC should have after WOWOs downgrade with their resources..what a damn waste of a great station!

 

[LibertyNT]

Yea Really... 50,000 WATTS is ALOT for a Music AM station. It Had Real Potential. If CC could get their head out their @*$ There would be many better stations. 1190 Could have its Daytime Pattern 24/7 if CC hadnt messed up. Shoot CC couldve given 1190 "Clear Channel" Status. Then it would be heard all over the US. But no... its too late. CC messed up.

 

[ocala500]

The night time signal was a hour glass going north and south pretty much, during the 80's when Susquehanna had KLIF on 1190. It was also a tough sell on the street. I think if we billed $20,000, that was a good month back in 1980. At night we pretty much lost Tarrant County. We did have an engineer play around with some of the equipment and I think he pulled a bunch of audio processing gear that had been hooked up by McClendon and all of a sudden, we could be picked up in parts of Arlington. Baiscally you have a good daytime signal and nights are a real nightmare. One old time story that use to be used when we would sell against WBAP was that they had only ONE tower and WE HAD 12!!

No, 1190s night signal is not and NEVER has been N-S hourglass...the 12 tower array is broadside and squirts the 75KW ERP out of the 5KW transmitter mostly 240deg true from the tower site (with a small, VERY small bit toward Terrell).....The joke has been since the Rockwall site was built, the signal goes down Commerce and DOESNT touch the curb. Dont know who told you what you posted, but its dead wrong...(just like Clear Channel)...

Audio gear under McClendon was top notch......pulling it would have NO effect on the RF signal..you either have RF or not...Audio would just make it sound LOUDER, not stronger signal wise. The night pattern is shown on Radio-Locator as well as the FCC web site...it has NEVER been any different.

Sorry, you are WRONG. I looked at the night time pattern on radio locator and this is not the same pattern KLIF had in 1980. That pattern has the KLIF signal penetrating Fort Worth. Believe me, you could not hear KLIF in Arlington, much less Fort Worth. Were you at KLIF in 1980? My guess is Susquehanna got the night time pattern changed after they bought the station in 1979. I can call Norm Phillips and find out.

 

[jd]

My guess is Susquehanna got the night time pattern changed after they bought the station in 1979. I can call Norm Phillips and find out.

I'm afraid you've been misinformed. I can assure you that Susquehanna didn't do anything with the nighttime pattern; it has remained the same since 1970. Prior to that 1190 used a site on Scyene Road southeast of downtown, but the night pattern wasn't an hourglass shape. If anything it resembled a "rounded boomerang" that was in somewhat of north-south/southwesterly configuration. For a coverage map comparing the present 5,000-watt and the old 1,000-watt patterns go to www.klifhistory.com/pgone.html and scroll down the page under "KLIF Tech Stuff." And yes, I worked at KLIF prior to the sale to Susquehanna. I'm quite familiar with both the day and night patterns.

 

[radi0chik]

No, 1190s night signal is not and NEVER has been N-S hourglass

Sorry, you are WRONG. I looked at the night time pattern on radio locator and this is not the same pattern KLIF had in 1980. That pattern has the KLIF signal penetrating Fort Worth. Believe me, you could not hear KLIF in Arlington, much less Fort Worth. Were you at KLIF in 1980? My guess is Susquehanna got the night time pattern changed after they bought the station in 1979. I can call Norm Phillips and find out.

I'm going to have to agree with CW here (Something I'm sure he can tell you I don't do). The pattern for 1190 night is the same today as it was when I was born (1979 thank you very much). I've seen the paperwork. It's still at the transmitter. Nothing's changed. Ask Norm.

 

[Robert Bass]

No, 1190s night signal is not and NEVER has been N-S hourglass

Sorry, you are WRONG. I looked at the night time pattern on radio locator and this is not the same pattern KLIF had in 1980. That pattern has the KLIF signal penetrating Fort Worth. Believe me, you could not hear KLIF in Arlington, much less Fort Worth. Were you at KLIF in 1980? My guess is Susquehanna got the night time pattern changed after they bought the station in 1979. I can call Norm Phillips and find out.

I'm going to have to agree with CW here (Something I'm sure he can tell you I don't do). The pattern for 1190 night is the same today as it was when I was born (1979 thank you very much). I've seen the paperwork. It's still at the transmitter. Nothing's changed. Ask Norm.

And I'm going to agree with both CW and RC, just because I want to. ;D

You're still young, RC! I was born in 1970.

R

 

[radi0chik]

*hands you your walker and runs away*

 

[Robert Bass]

LOL! You'd be surprised, I actually use a walker, when I am doing my daily walk. Helps me with balance...

R

 

[jd]

And I'm going to agree with both CW and RC, just because I want to. ;D

Robert? You could agree with me, too!

And a funny thing about the sale of 1190: back in 1980 I was working at KPLX and Susquehanna made it known that of the two stations, KLIF was going to be their cash cow. Mooooo!

 

[Robert Bass]

And I'm going to agree with both CW and RC, just because I want to. ;D

Robert? You could agree with me, too!
!

Consider it done.

And this has to be an RI first... At least four different people agreeing about the same thing. ;D

R

 

[CW]

The night time signal was a hour glass going north and south pretty much, during the 80's when Susquehanna had KLIF on 1190. It was also a tough sell on the street. I think if we billed $20,000, that was a good month back in 1980. At night we pretty much lost Tarrant County. We did have an engineer play around with some of the equipment and I think he pulled a bunch of audio processing gear that had been hooked up by McClendon and all of a sudden, we could be picked up in parts of Arlington. Baiscally you have a good daytime signal and nights are a real nightmare. One old time story that use to be used when we would sell against WBAP was that they had only ONE tower and WE HAD 12!!

No, 1190s night signal is not and NEVER has been N-S hourglass...the 12 tower array is broadside and squirts the 75KW ERP out of the 5KW transmitter mostly 240deg true from the tower site (with a small, VERY small bit toward Terrell).....The joke has been since the Rockwall site was built, the signal goes down Commerce and DOESNT touch the curb. Dont know who told you what you posted, but its dead wrong...(just like Clear Channel)...

Audio gear under McClendon was top notch......pulling it would have NO effect on the RF signal..you either have RF or not...Audio would just make it sound LOUDER, not stronger signal wise. The night pattern is shown on Radio-Locator as well as the FCC web site...it has NEVER been any different.

Sorry, you are WRONG. I looked at the night time pattern on radio locator and this is not the same pattern KLIF had in 1980. That pattern has the KLIF signal penetrating Fort Worth. Believe me, you could not hear KLIF in Arlington, much less Fort Worth. Were you at KLIF in 1980? My guess is Susquehanna got the night time pattern changed after they bought the station in 1979. I can call Norm Phillips and find out.

Would you like Uncle Norm's phone number?? I think I still have it in my cell phone.....I think I have his new number at GAP as well...Sorry but the night time pattern has been and likely ever shall be as it was built by McL.....We have gone over this many times before...and since I was Chief Operator at 1190 for a while and you probably never were, I had access to all the FCC filings, paperwork, etc...(IN fact I ran a Field Strength tests on 1190's night site in 2000 to confirm the main lobe was still as originally measured when the 12 tower array was built...IT IS...now the null or lack of toward WOWO is another matter and something between the FCC and CC to work out I also have talked many times with Dave Hultsman who WAS Chief under McL and we discussed possible changes to the pattern.....you wanna argue with him?

But sorry, the night pattern SINCE the 12 tower site was built as the original KLIF has NEVER been N-S..it IS as shown currently on the FCC web site:
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/221001-66822.pdf

With Dallas being right in the way of the main lobe....

Wanna argue some more?? Go ahead but Im finished and stand by the truth!

 

[radi0chik]

(IN fact I ran a Field Strength tests on 1190's night site in 2000 to confirm the main lobe was still as originally measured when the 12 tower array was built...IT IS...

Meh I have all the monitor points for Rockwall (and Irving) stored in my GPS - my truck knows its way around the entire rockwall loop by heart. Err...by engine....or something.

So yeah, some of us have been there done that... and know where the signal goes.

 

[Steve Eberhart]

The OLD nighttime (Scyene Road) site was 1000 watts and did produce a "north/south" pattern. An image of it is on the website www.klifhistory.com . I found that pattern in the McLendon engineering files as part of the massive McLendon files at Texas Tech University Library in Lubbock.
The NEW nighttime Rockwall site began broadcasting in May 1969. I have an aircheck from that month with a promo on it that states "in the next few days you may notice some changes in our audio level as we test our new 5000 watt nightime transmitter..."

By the way, if you ever find yourself in Lubbock, take a few hours, if not days, to pilfer through the McLendon collection. Gordon donated all of his personal and professional files from McLendon Broadcasting to them. They have them neatly catalogued and it is a goldmine!