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Cost-per-Pointless?

S

SirRoxalot

Rumor has it that Citadel decided not to buy the summer book in Buffalo. It's not a rumor that they decided not to buy the summer book in Albuquerque - another of their largest markets pre-ABC. So, their sales people are expected to sell for three months without current numbers? Isn't that strange coming from the corporate suite that said that all they needed are "order takers", since the numbers sell themselves? Especially since they're going into what's usually their most profitable quarter? Makes you wonder if the sales people that jumped knew that it was coming, and decided that it was time to abandon ship.

According to my sources, Citadel probably saved around $100K by not buying the summer book. And yes, I know that the summer book tends to be the least credible. But what does it do to Citadel's credibility to discount it altogether? Strange move by a spreadsheet wizard who's supposed to be gearing up for an IPO for the "new" Citadel. It will be interesting to see how revenue is affected at the #3 biller in a 3-way market.
 
Hmmm...years back, the book was the book! One package flat rate for all seasons.
If you messed with it and tried to cut the summer book out, the cost of other books went up!
(hardly the savings worth enjoying!)

Then again, my information dates back many years.

A friend explained it like a fast food restaurant. You can order things on the menu, or order the same things in a combo for less.

All four seasons were the combo price for the book, vs paying for each season.

I'm not sure how things are today though.
 
Yeziknoradio said:
Hmmm...years back, the book was the book! One package flat rate for all seasons.
If you messed with it and tried to cut the summer book out, the cost of other books went up!
(hardly the savings worth enjoying!)

Then again, my information dates back many years.

A friend explained it like a fast food restaurant. You can order things on the menu, or order the same things in a combo for less.

All four seasons were the combo price for the book, vs paying for each season.

I'm not sure how things are today though.
Click to expand...

Since rates are set on the spring and fall books (anywhere I've been, anyway) you can't blame Arbitron for their pricing policy, otherwise they'd sell a lot fewer summer/winter books.
 
folks, in radio in 2010, rates are not based on arbitron books, they are based on the stations available commercial inventory. Ratings have nothing to do with rates. Ratings have something, to do with the amount of commercial inventory the station has.
 
Superset, let me follow try to your logic.

Your premise:  Rates are not based on Arbitron books.

Then you go on to suggest that:

A) The amount of commercial inventory available is what affects rates.

B) Ratings do have an affect on the amount of commercial inventory available.

(I take that to mean higher ratings create more demand on the available commercial               inventory and higher rates. And conversely, lower ratings equals less demand and lower rates.  

It’s the old supply and demand situation, right?)

So - and this is where I’m confused by your premise – how can you say that “rates are not based on Arbitron books”?  

Seems to me that ratings play a significant role in determining a station's commercial rates.
 
yugoidar said:
Superset, let me follow try to your logic.

Your premise: Rates are not based on Arbitron books...

Seems to me that ratings play a significant role in determining a station's commercial rates.
Click to expand...

Go back fifty years and look at (here I go again! :)) 'KB's ratings, f'r example. In most every market you had a similar dynamic...one or two top dogs and everyone else chasing scraps. Today there's still a lot of scrap-chasing but ratings have evened out to where there may be only a 2-3 point spread in the top 5 or even 10 stations in some of the largest markets.

This is where qualitative comes in. Today we all make $$ based on most effectively reaching a particular target demo. The top 4-5 in overall rank usually get the national agency buys - unless a client is targeting a very specific listener outside the top 4-5. Everyone else lives or dies based on how they deliver results for clients in their particular niche.

I'm no expert...I'm just laying out Arbitron's case as I see it. Arbitron is where you find the data the agencies rely on to properly invest their client's ad budget.

I know there are many who don't buy the book, and I assume they're able to lay out their case to clients and prospects without it, mostly thru building and maintaining relationships with mom-and-pop clients.
 
IOW...without ratings, all you have are relationships, which if you're not delivering results for your clients, are dysfunctional at best and deceptive at worst.
 
YRK is the station with the highest ratings. It is never sold out, and it's rates are not that high. Because there is no inventory cap.

I do see your point. That if the ratings are high from Arbitron, then more spots will be bought, then inventory goes down, then rates go up.

That theory would be correct, however, station business models these days are all over the road in regards to inventory.There happen to be stations that do not do so well in the ratings, but are huge billing stations.

You are right that ratings "play a role", however, it is not as signifigant as you may think. The primary users of ratings are ad agencies, and those dollars from agencies are becoming less, as they are spending their money on other medias now, plus fewer agencies exist.

Having a direct relationship with a client and not even discussing ratings is by far the better way to go to help the client get the results they need.

I do know what you are saying, but ratings, agencies, this and that, was all before technology put a monkey wrench in radios business model.

Also, one last note to the poster above, relationships in radio advertising are far more dependable than ratings. Ratings change every single month. And the methodology is subject of question. They are totally unreliable. Relationships can be very solid and a win win for everyone. You can get a radio advertiser signifigant results on a station with no ratings, and low rates, and even a very few listeners.
 
Element9 said:
Even the best "relationship" sales rep will admit it's better to have a 10 share in the bank than a two share. Insurance.
Click to expand...

But then, a ten share of what? 10 share women is great for selling bras and messages about breast cancer prevention, useless for selling messages about prostate cancer or running ads that target men.
 
superset weekend said:
Also, one last note to the poster above, relationships in radio advertising are far more dependable than ratings. Ratings change every single month. And the methodology is subject of question. They are totally unreliable. Relationships can be very solid and a win win for everyone. You can get a radio advertiser signifigant results on a station with no ratings, and low rates, and even a very few listeners.
Click to expand...

Superset, no question that having a solid relationship with an advertiser can go along way towards gaining or continuing to win that customer's business. Fact is, given a choice, customers prefer to buy from someone they know more than someone they don't.

And research in the past has shown that with the right message and the right frequency of commercials, a station with lesser ratings can get results for an advertiser. That was not the point of your premise.

I stand by my original post - good ratings, and the pressure they place on a station's inventory, play a significant role in establishing that station's rates.

Element 9 is right - ratings and a good personal relationship with the client gives you the best of both worlds.

Would you deny that?
 
I would say that is the perfect storm, but not neccessary. But yes, the it is better. But there are many other things that go into that equation too.

My point was that Arbitron is mattering less and less everyday. It is good from an information standpoint, but certainly has nothing to do with results for an advertiser. Nothing.
 
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