Could WBAP on 96.7 be the new format

[Rick Rose 2.0]

After thinking about the billing growth some big market news/talkers have achieved by reaching younger people on FM and the fact WBAP's 25-54 numbers are not great could very well mean that 96.7 could be joining 820 WBAP in simlucast. I heard Salem had some success in improving 100.7's DFW signal quality by being in mono and using some kind of technology that maybe Citadel could use to make 96.7 a better signal. Could News/Talk 820 AM/96.7 FM WBAP be in near future.

 

[txchipk]

I've previously wondered about that (as well as KTCK on 93.3).

It's a growing trend that AM news/talkers are moving to FM or adding FM simulcasts. The list of those or just FM news/talkers that switched to that format is getting pretty long. Same goes for FM sports talkers. In fact, many of these markets have both FM talkers and sports talkers...

AMs to FMs or adding FM simulcasts:

KTAR 620 Phoenix to the former KKFR 92.3
KARN 920 Little Rock / KARN-FM 102.9
KURV 710 McAllen / KZSP 95.3 South Padre Island
WBT 1110 Charlotte / WBT-FM 99.3
WHIO 1290 Dayton / WHIO-FM 95.7
KURM 790 Fayetteville/Rogers AR / KURM-FM 100.3
KSL 850 Salt Lake City / KSL-FM 102.7
WILK 980 Scranton/Wilkes-Barre / WILK-FM 103.1
KRDO 1240 Colorado Springs / KRDO-FM 105.5
KPEL 1420 Lafayette / KPEL-FM 105.1
WWL 870 New Orleans / WWL-FM 105.3
WOKV 690 Jacksonville / WOKV-FM 106.5
WTOP 1500 Washington to the former WGMS 103.5
WLOB 1310 Portland / WLOB-FM 96.3
WSCC 730 Charleston to WSCC-FM 94.3
KFH 1260 Wichita / KFH-FM 98.7
WPRO 630 Providence / WEAN-FM 99.7
WGOW 1150 Chattanooga / WGOW-FM 102.3
WTJS 1390 Jackson TN / WTJW 105.3 (this market has 3 FM news/talk outlets)
WXYZ 1270 Detroit / WXYZ-FM 97.7 (sports)
WWLS 640 Oklahoma City / WWLS-FM 97.9 (sports)
KFNS 590 St Louis / KFNS-FM 100.7 (sports)
KKFN 950 Denver to the former KJCD 104.3 (sports)
WEPN 1050 New York adds WLIR-FM 107.1 Long Island (sports)

Just FM outlets that switched to news/talk (not counting talkers like KLLI); there are more than these in smaller places...

WXTK 95.1 Cape Cod
WNOX 100.3 Knoxville
WRNO-FM 99.5 New Orleans
WNIR 100.1 Akron
KTLK-FM 100.3 Minneapolis/St Paul
WFMP 107.1 Minneapolis/St Paul
WWWT-FM 107.7 Washington DC
KBCT 94.5 Waco
WWTN 99.7 Nashville
WCME 96.7 Augusta ME
WLTT 106.3 Wilmington NC
KSGF 104.1 Springfield MO
WTKQ-FM 100.5 Saginaw
WFMN 97.3 Jackson MS
WSKY-FM 97.3 Gainesville FL
WWBU 101.7 Blacksburg VA
WLXO 96.1 Lexington KY
KQTH 104.1 Tucson
KSSZ 93.9 Columbia/Jefferson City MO
WXZO 96.7 Burlington VT
WTKK 96.9 Boston
KFTK 97.1 St Louis
WVOM 103.9 Bangor
WXLM 104.7 Long Island
WGUF 98.9 Fort Myers/Naples
WTDA 103.9 Columbus OH
KWQW 98.3 Des Moines
WBUV 104.9 Gulfport/Biloxi
WFDM 95.9 Indianapolis
KRKR 95.1 Lincoln NE
WFLF 94.5 Panama City
WYOO 101.1 Panama City
KKFT 99.1 Carson City/Reno
WPGB 104.7 Pittsburgh
WLNI 105.9 Lynchburg VA
WKXW-FM 101.5 Trenton / WXKW 97.3 Atlantic City
WTNE-FM 97.7 Jackson TN
WNWS-FM 101.5 Jackson TN
WKBB 100.9 Tupelo
WRNN 99.5 Myrtle Beach
WFLA-FM 100.7 Tallahassee
WQMR 101.1 Ocean City


FM sports:

KESN 103.3 D/FW
KFNC 97.5 Houston
WZMJ 93.1 Columbia SC
WNKT 107.5 Columbia SC
WTKE-FM 98.1 Fort Walton Beach/Pensacola
WCMC-FM 99.9 Raleigh/Durham
WXJY 93.7/WJXY-FM 93.9 Myrtle Beach
WJJB-FM 95.5 Portland ME
KXTG 95.5 Portland OR
WJOX 100.5 Birmingham
WGFX 104.5 Nashville
WNFN 106.7 Nashville
KTTG 96.3 Fort Smith
KHGG-FM 103.1 Fort Smith
WTMM-FM 104.5 Albany
WNSP 105.5 Mobile
WNML-FM 99.1 Knoxville
KYAL-FM 97.1 Tulsa
KWTO-FM 98.7 Springfield MO
WXTG-FM 102.1 Virginia Beach

 

[little1]

The problem with the simulcast aspect is that you lose whatever billing you're getting on the 2nd station- and the question becomes does your increased billing on station #1 make up for whatever you lose on station #2.

I wrote that generically because a similar question was raised about moving KTCK to 93.3. There the question becomes what to do with 93.3.

I think WBAP makes in the 25million range. I don't know what twister makes, but let's say it's only 5 million. Get rid of KTYS and now WBAP needs to bill 30 mil to net the same revenue.

Now maybe on KTCK's crappy signal there might be enough people out there who can't hear them that improving to FM might be worth the hassle, but WBAP? It's a flamethrower. A blowtorch of epic proportions. And do you really think there are dittoheads out there who don't listen to Ruch because he's not in crystal clear FM stereo?

 

[arnoldevns]

The problem with the simulcast aspect is that you lose whatever billing you're getting on the 2nd station- and the question becomes does your increased billing on station #1 make up for whatever you lose on station #2.

I wrote that generically because a similar question was raised about moving KTCK to 93.3. There the question becomes what to do with 93.3.

I think WBAP makes in the 25million range. I don't know what twister makes, but let's say it's only 5 million. Get rid of KTYS and now WBAP needs to bill 30 mil to net the same revenue.

Now maybe on KTCK's crappy signal there might be enough people out there who can't hear them that improving to FM might be worth the hassle, but WBAP? It's a flamethrower. A blowtorch of epic proportions. And do you really think there are dittoheads out there who don't listen to Ruch because he's not in crystal clear FM stereo?

You are missing half the equasion: you also cut your costs by getting rid of the extra expense of programming a second station. If KTYS bills 5 million a year (and I doubt it's that high) it probably costs 2-3 million a year to program. If you cut that expense you only have to gain 2-3 million for WBAP in order to break even. Are there enough dittoheads out there that can't listen to Rush on AM to make this a possibility? Yes. More to the point, there are enough people who NEVER tune to AM to make the addition of WBAP to the FM band a profitable venture.

You could also use the second station for alternative programming like when the Stars were playing on Texas primary night and the game had to move to ESPN 103.3. That runs into some difficulty with Arbitron listing it as a simulcast, but I suppose the infrequent nature of the split programming would still allow it. (someone else will know the rules on that)

Only one other question: would the FCC allow Citadel to use WBAP-FM calls on 96.7?

 

[LibertyNT]

I said Somethin like this earlier About 96.3
I DO Believe the FCC would allow WBAP-FM calls to be used
They arent used anywhere else and can be used so long as
the AM station is owned by the same person who owns the FM.

 

[little1]

You are missing half the equasion: you also cut your costs by getting rid of the extra expense of programming a second station. If KTYS bills 5 million a year (and I doubt it's that high) it probably costs 2-3 million a year to program. If you cut that expense you only have to gain 2-3 million for WBAP in order to break even. Are there enough dittoheads out there that can't listen to Rush on AM to make this a possibility? Yes. More to the point, there are enough people who NEVER tune to AM to make the addition of WBAP to the FM band a profitable venture.

I think you're idea of what it costs to program a station are a little out of whack. 250 grand for a morning show team, couple of jocks at 100K, a night jock making 50, you're still obly at 500K. Even throw in a PD and weekenders, a couple of production and imaging types, you're still not pushing a million. Where are you getting the other 2 Million from?

And I bet my figures are wildly inflated. Do you really think they're going to pay a midday jock of a failing radio station 100K?

But okay, I'll play along. WBAP only has to make an extra 3 million a year. That's 57 grand a week, 11 grand every weekday, $960 an hour (6a-7p), or 64 dollars PER SPOT (based on 15 spots an hour)...

In the world of cost per point, and a BRUTAL competitive enviorment, I doubt that WBAP could get away with a 64$ increase for all those spots.

 

[oaktree]

You would be surprised how easy a deal this could well be if a "simulcast" were in order.

First, the AM would, likely, lose little money because of it's flamethrower reach, demo efficiency for an AM (the older demo buys are quite successful for the AM) and the switch to FM would attract advertisers who are already on the AM making the switch as an addition to the AM.

Further, the FM would generate new advertisers that could be "overlayed" (just like on the Internet stream) and a new advertising vehicle opens. Whether it is a true "simulcast" these days doesn't mater from a "numbers" viewpoint. That will be easily pointed out to buyers for a combo buy when the stronger 25-54 demos are being sold.

The only thing they'd need to do is add new spots, new spot rotations and even "simulcast" buys and the combo becomes a huge money maker. Then, there are the "economies of scale." In other words, "isn't automation grand?"

The idea of separating sports from the AM or FM is another money maker for one or the other station.

Would be a good idea. They can simulcast the "content" but place different ads on both "simultaneously" (and cheaply.)

 

[busyradioguy]

This is all well and good, except one major factor is being overlooked here.

WBAP is the AM Primary EAS station. So that means when they use EAS on the AM signal, I'm betting they'd have to use it on the FM side as well. Especially if it's a true simulcast.

How well that might play to overlayed advertisers....? Probably not very well.

This would also give us TWO FM stations serving as Primary EAS stations, unless KSCS gets out of that status.

 

[CW]

This is all well and good, except one major factor is being overlooked here.

WBAP is the AM Primary EAS station. So that means when they use EAS on the AM signal, I'm betting they'd have to use it on the FM side as well. Especially if it's a true simulcast.

How well that might play to overlayed advertisers....? Probably not very well.

This would also give us TWO FM stations serving as Primary EAS stations, unless KSCS gets out of that status.

WBAP is the LP-1....KSCS is LP-2....IF 96.7 ended up being a simulcast of 820 (and I dont think they could get WBAP-FM for it.....they would not have a case to have WBAP-FM issued to a FM station which is not that old and never held the call WBAP-FM...WBAP AM holds the calls since its legacy), 96.7 would not be LP-2 nor a LP-1.....and they already run EAS on 96.7 anyway (ALL full service stations must have EAS gear and must repeat the RMT from the LP-1.....so 96.7 already repeats WBAP when the Required Monthly runs...and it runs its own Required Weeklys as well). In a simulcast, even the simulcast station must send the EAS with its own callsign in the digital header....so any EAS from 96.7 would still have to show IT's call, NOT WBAP. It WOULD repeat the audio.

 

[busyradioguy]

Good point about the call assignments for FM.

However, as far as EAS goes, if it is a true simulcast of WBAP, it wouldn't be difficult to run the test on both stations simultaniously, using two separate encoders. That would take care of the calls in the header codes for both stations.

 

[Rick Rose 2.0]

The FCC did allow WWL New Orleans and KSL Salt Lake City put their 3 letter calls on their FM simlucasts that were just recently started. So I would assume a W in a K zone would also be allowed if 96.7 picks up WBAP. Then again the calls for 96.7 would not matter because they only have to be said once an hour and could brand WBAP the rest of the time.

 

[MikeStandardsFromIndiana]

When WHIOm 1290 in Dayton Ohio started simulcasting on 95.7 in Dayton they took the WHIO-FM Calls which was never ever on 95.7 at one point. the Original WHIO FM is currently WHKO 99.1 in Dayton.

 

[texas_prwriter]

I can't remember ever regularly listening a simulcast before (maybe KVIL-FM/AM back in the day). If you could do WBAP-FM, how would station ID work since 96.7 is licensed to Flower Mound and WBAP to Fort Worth? Something like "The World is changing. Are you listening? WBAP Flower Mound, WBAP-AM Fort Worth-Dallas, WBAP-HD Fort Worth-Dallas"?

Just the dork in me wondering on a Sunday morning. :

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Everybody is missing a point - putting WBAP's audio on 96.7 would be as much as an admission that the "improved" audio quality of IBOC on 820 isn't reaching any sizable proportion of listeners. So they need a good old analog FM signal to make the audio sound better.

Of course 96.7 has HD, would KTYS country end up on the HD-2? Or would they abandon the HD-2 and only run HD-1. All the nay-sayers here say that it has a bad signal, so of course that means their HD signal shouldn't even reach the metroplex, but 50 miles away in Plano I have no trouble with HD lock on them. So their HD covers a good portion of the metroplex.

 

[milton77]

The FCC did allow WWL New Orleans and KSL Salt Lake City put their 3 letter calls on their FM simlucasts that were just recently started. So I would assume a W in a K zone would also be allowed if 96.7 picks up WBAP. Then again the calls for 96.7 would not matter because they only have to be said once an hour and could brand WBAP the rest of the time.

In Oklahoma City, Citadel has used the WWLS-FM call letters on 3 FMs in this market, all with a different city of license as the AM simulcast partner.

 

[w9wi]

(and I dont think they could get WBAP-FM for it.....they would not have a case to have WBAP-FM issued to a FM station which is not that old and never held the call WBAP-FM...WBAP AM holds the calls since its legacy),

Besides WWLS OKC, I can think offhand of three other cases where FM stations were able to get "wrong side of the Mississippi" calls assigned to match co-owned AMs in the same market:

WNAX-FM (104.1) Yankton, South Dakota, co-owned with WNAX-570
KFIZ-FM (107.1) Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, co-owned with KFIZ-1450 (this one has since changed back to WFON)
WDAF-FM (106.5) Liberty, Missouri, co-owned with WDAF-610 Kansas City (the AM station has since changed to KCSP but the FM remains WDAF...)

All of these have been assigned in the last ten years.

 

[jh]

They could easily get the WBAP-FM call; the same way Bonneville got KSL-FM for the FM they're simulecasting KSL on. They could get the WBAP-FM call on 96.7 even if they didn't simulecast.

 

[CW]

I can't remember ever regularly listening a simulcast before (maybe KVIL-FM/AM back in the day). If you could do WBAP-FM, how would station ID work since 96.7 is licensed to Flower Mound and WBAP to Fort Worth? Something like "The World is changing. Are you listening? WBAP Flower Mound, WBAP-AM Fort Worth-Dallas, WBAP-HD Fort Worth-Dallas"?

Just the dork in me wondering on a Sunday morning. :

If 96.7 was assigned WBAP-FM then the ID would be "WBAP-FM and WBAP-HD1 Flower Mound; WBAP, Fort Worth-Dallas" The FM gets the suffix, not the AM....That the only legal ID they could do.

 

[CW]

When WHIOm 1290 in Dayton Ohio started simulcasting on 95.7 in Dayton they took the WHIO-FM Calls which was never ever on 95.7 at one point. the Original WHIO FM is currently WHKO 99.1 in Dayton.

The issue is not whether the calls were used on that freq before...the issue with WBAP would be its a legacy call (a W WEST of the Mississipi) trying to get a W call on a FM west of the Mississippi where only K calls are issued now. Last I looked, Dayton is EAST of the Miss.....so it can put ANY Wxxx call on its FM it wants, but no Kxxx call.

 

[pbf1]

Intereting to note that WDAY AM & FM in Fargo aren't even owned by the same people anymore! (Haven't been for close to a decade, in fact)