Country---Can there be a # 1 & #2

[heydaybegone]

I'm just throwing this out there....

Doesn't anyone have the kahunas to go up against the only country station in WNY? Isn't there room? For you ratings obsessed people, a split share gimme? ???

Why has the market "handed" them their top spot...with no competition? ???

Just curious....and something other than the fruitless Bills discussions. ;D

HDBG

BTW - there are BETTER country stations to be streamed on-line from around the country...so WYRK CAN be beat!! You read it here first!

 

[Element9]

There's room. But you gotta have a signal. And $$$. And still, there are no guarantees. Maybe Cumulus, down the road will take a chance, but I doubt it. Their FMs looked quite stable in the Fall book, at least from the 12+ perspective. If 104 is all 55+, Cumulus might roll the dice, but then again, prob'ly not at this stage. You gotta have a good aim, a good gun and plenty of bullets to bring down the hefty Buffalo that is WYRK.

 

[SirRoxalot]

It'll happen eventually. At one time, the country audience was rock solid for their favorite station. Country as a genre has become so fragmented, and so pop-oriented, that it's become a way-station for pop listeners looking to escape rap. Of course, now you have Colt Ford doing some business with country rap, so even that refuge is tainted.

Somebody will take a flyer at "True Country", or "Young Country", or another more focused slice of the Country pie, and WYRK will have to decide if it wants to continue with an "everything Country" approach, or narrow its focus. Other markets - like Erie, for example - have shown that a new player can not only make headway, but can seriously challenge a default station that's been gutted by overly confident owners looking to save some bucks.

 

[Element9]

Hmmmm. Well then... maybe Cumulus will roll the dice on Country to protect 97 and take a share or two (or more) away from WYRK. Cumulus better be prepared for a brawl. There's no way Townsquere is going to allow WYRK to get run, not with the amount of money that station brings in. Might be an interesting scrum to watch from the sidelines. But my guess is that WYRK has such strong personalities that it would eventually crush any challenger. Oh, but personalities don't matter, do they... fiddle-dee-dee. How many shares would a Country competitor, using a Jack-like approach to Country, siphon from WYRK? Two? Four? Putting a stone in the competition's shoe could slow them down a bit.

 

[TheBigA]

But my guess is that WYRK has such strong personalities that it would eventually crush any challenger. Oh, but personalities don't matter, do they... fiddle-dee-dee.

"Fiddle?" That's funny. Probably unintended.

It's not so much the personality as the heritage. For example, in Indianapolis, Cumulus owns WFMS, a heritage country station. Emmis owns Hank, a more music intensive station that plays one or two legends an hour. During the past two years, Hank stole a couple of personalities from FMS. But FMS still owns the format. What Emmis has done with Hank is split the audience enough so their AC station can sneak into the #1 spot every now and then. But Hank has never beaten FMS.

Thanks to the purchase of Citadel, Cumulus now owns two of the top country stations in Dallas. Both are getting great ratings, and both have great heritage. Neither is going away. But this past week, The Ranch, a more traditional country station, took on the Hank name and is running jockless. They don't have the signal of the two bigger stations. They don't have the heritage. But they are playing a wider range of music, with a couple of legends an hour. We'll see what impact it has on the two Cumulus stations.

Then again, if you let a heritage station go stale, you can be ripe for the picking. That's what Entercom did in Seattle with the Wolf, knocking off CBS long time leader KMPS. So now KMPS is cleaning house and trying to introduce a whole new air staff. That can't be easy.

As far as Buffalo is concerned, I've always felt the Cumulus FMs basically cover three aspects of the same format. They'd do well to flip one to another completely different format. But I agree that what they're doing now is working, and they don't own enough stations to do anything strategicly like Emmis in Indianapolis. So they'll probably stay where they are for now. There are bigger problems in other cities.

 

[chas108]

BTW - there are BETTER country stations to be streamed on-line from around the country...so WYRK CAN be beat!! You read it here first!

IMO Buffalo's battle is Townsquare's to lose.

Yes there are better stations, but 'YRK's execution and branding rival many bigger stations.

I'd love to see how they'd sound PPM-style, not having to begin every talk break reinforcing "Country 106-point-5, WYRK". Instead, a jock's spontaneous reaction to a great song is the type of :10 bit that can make a solid emotional connection.

Country as a genre has become so fragmented, and so pop-oriented...

True SirRox, but the format has, in general, avoided fragmentation and, like early-70's Top 40, makes the mix work.

There have been points over the past two decades where it looked like a vibrant Young Country might emerge, or a Classic Country might take root but to this day, those variants have never taken hold on a national level...only isolated stories. A more highbrow Americana format has emerged but it seems to exist in its own world without stealing from Country's audience.

Granted, today you have a strong Southern/Classic Rock influence stretching the format, and some backlash has developed to Taylor Swift in particular. But in general the format has policed itself from jumping the fragmentation shark.

Country...(has) become a way-station for pop listeners looking to escape rap. Of course, now you have Colt Ford doing some business with country rap, so even that refuge is tainted.

But Jason Aldean's "Dirt Road Anthem" (A Colt Ford composition) went to #1. And in reality, Big & Rich's "Save A Horse"(Ride A Cowboy) wore down some of the rap resistance IMO, albeit in a very subtle way. Big Kenny is certainly NOT SINGING along with John Rich.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HflDc7PUT2g&ob=av2e

Still, if Colt Ford emerged as a mainstream star, he may be the stake that splits the format once and for all. Maybe in that environment, 'YRK could be positioned by a young-end newcomer as old hat and toppled. But the way things are now...unless/until some major stumbling takes place, WYRK's gonna remain the 800-pound gorilla. Their biggest battle is to not get complacent.

 

[therealjm12]

Two country stations in Northeast markets is a tough sell. Off the top of my head I can't think of a market in NY or New England that has two successful country stations. I can tell you, in Rochester that WBEE is totally dominate and I don't see anyone going against them. There is a fringe station, BIG DOG Country but they don't even make a dent in the ratings, even though they do have commercials on TV. In Syracuse WOLF has done nothing to unseat WBBS, although they sound good, but a class A. In Utica -Rome WFRG has beaten off all challengers. WBUG is in the most eastern part of the market -the least populated (WFRG signal is spotty) so they show up but only a point or two. Albany has just one country station that I know of.
A genius programer/consultant told me a few years ago, that classic country will not work in the Northeast, because there is not really an audience for it. You could go back only to the 80's, (which I believe most country stations do). The audience doesn't really exists for the 60's 70's country oldies to relate to.

 

[TheBigA]

Two country stations in Northeast markets is a tough sell.

You make a great point. Country isn't just #1 in Buffalo, but Albany, Syracuse, and Rochester too. One the surface, you'd think that's an opportunity for a 1 share station to make a move by going country. The problem is those 1 share stations are getting a 1 share for a lot of reasons besides format: Signal, promotion money, and commitment to a professional sound are three that come to mind. Flipping WECK to Country isn't going to make it a 3 share station. The stations that have a better signal and have the money to compete don't have enough reason to abandon their current format. I think that's the case in Buffalo too.

What the country format has been able to do in the last 15 or so years is take a fringe format and make it mainstream by combining elements of other formats (pop, southern rock, classic rock, and AC) into one unified format that is consistent coast to coast, that presents a platform for artist development, and supports the core element of the country format, which is touring. That's a huge partnership that goes on with radio and the music industry that harkens back to the way radio used to work in other formats.

I also agree with your comment about classic country. The situation with classic country mirrors that with oldies, in that the music from the 60s mainly appeals to over-60 lower income males, who aren't the target of many advertisers. There is a lot of lip service given to tradition by younger audiences. It's cool to talk about Johnny Cash and Merle Haggard. But the minute you play their music, younger audiences change the station. So you may be able to slip in The Judds or early Strait because those artists still are relevent. Garth finds ways to keep himself current.

But the other key part about country is that it's a format driven by great songs, and listeners stay with the station because of the songs. The second element is the community. Country is a unified community that has similar values and interests. Third is that the stars support the community with big tours and great songs. Those three things working together have made country a powerful format even for people who don't like country music. That's hard to find in any other commercial radio format.

 

[SirRoxalot]

I get the feeling that country has changed in the last 10-15 years. It's become a lot more pop-oriented. It's pretty tough for any station in any genre to dominate 30 years worth of music. I also think that country has expanded its audience by picking up pop listeners who just plain aren't into rap and its offshoots. I believe that's a soft audience that country shares with Classic Rock, Classic Hits, and '80s-centric rock formats.

I think we're coming to a point where a station could target either '80s and '90 country, or "new" country, and make an impact. Would it be big enough to make them a contender? Nope. Would it be big enough to knock WYRK or WBEE down a few shares, kicking them out of the #1 spot? Maybe. The problem is that you'd need to spend money on both talent and outside promotion to make a real impact. Some help from the record companies would also help, which means you need to have some leverage with them. The only guys with leverage are people running CHRs, or (maybe) modern rock formats that need new music exposure.

It could happen, but who's going to sacrifice a station that's already getting a 4+ share to get a 3-share in country? It ain't worth it - yet.

 

[TheBigA]

I get the feeling that country has changed in the last 10-15 years. It's become a lot more pop-oriented.

That depends on what you consider pop. Eddy Arnold was as pop as they come. Same with Patsy Cline. Most people in her day had trouble distinguishing her from Connie Francis. Brenda Lee was a huge crossover star. Kenny Rogers, Anne Murray, Eddie Rabbitt, and many more stars from the 80s crossed over to pop. So today's country just continues that tradition.

 

[danikayser84]

In Albany, WZMR flipped to country about two years ago and has failed to even reach a 2 share in most books... but I personally attribute it to 104.9's weak signal and near lack of local personality... WGNA is live/local pretty much all day, I think WZMR is only live in the mornings... a couple other prior stations (country on 96.3, which is now Jamz, and Froggy 107.1 on 104.9, and 93.7 The Eagle) all tried to dethrone WGNA but failed

Yet, WAJZ with a similar signal pattern/range to WZMR manages around 5 share every book, because they're pretty much exclusive to the Urban/Rhythmic format... I've said before that 104.9 would be most successful if they were exclusive to a format

 

[SirRoxalot]

I don't think that radio stations were nearly as niche-oriented in '60s and '70s. The pigeon-holing really took off in the '80s, and radio formats have been much more fragmented since then. Part of it has to do with the increased number of stations brought on by Docket 80-90, and the shift of music from AM to FM in the same era.

Every era has seen country crossover, but I don't remember artists having as many hits on as many charts as somebody like Taylor Swift. Country shows these days are rock shows in everything but name. It ain't some good old boys in cowboy garb anymore. It looks like more of a Kiss show than a George Jones performance. I think a close look at the charts would show, though, that there are fewer artists crossing over now than there were in earlier eras, and the ones that do often cross over more often.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't remember artists having as many hits on as many charts as somebody like Taylor Swift.

Taylor admires Shania Twain, and Shania was one of the last who was able to cross over as easily as Taylor today.

The thing that's making the difference now are the songs. The Band Perry had a #1 pop hit with If I Die Young. Jason Aldean's duet with Kelly Clarkson was a huge crossover hit. Look for Rascal Flatts to cross over with their duet with Natasha Beddingfield.

 

[Obtuse1]

The last time someone tried it (on 107.7, as WNUC), it didn't exactly set the world on fire. May have had something to do with the signal.

A second Country station in B'flo could work, but it would have to be a concerted effort on a big stick.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The last time someone tried it (on 107.7, as WNUC), it didn't exactly set the world on fire. May have had something to do with the signal.

A second Country station in B'flo could work, but it would have to be a concerted effort on a big stick.

Exactly. And what current station do you whack, and what kind of a share are you likely to get? Certain Townsquare ain't gonna do it. It would be - at best - and expensive zero-sum game for either Entercom or Cumuless.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Townsquare has the best cluster control in the market. Four big signals, three B's, one C. Cumulus has three B's. Entercom has a C, a B and a rimshot that's technically a B, but... To take on WYRK would be precarious. It can't be done on the cheap. There's little, if any, room for error. The street presence would be a struggle because WYRK does great promotions. Their Country Night at Coca Cola Field is a knockout punch. The station has a direct line to Nashville. The artists and the WYRK personalities are tight. The WYRK P1s adore the station. Some of the verbatims I've read years ago testify to that. As noted, WYRK has fended off direct competition before and although WNUC was playing with a limited signal, it didn't sound all that bad, but it just wasn't good enough to score a direct hit on WYRK, which was barely bruised. I'd fish in a different stream.

 

[chas108]

I get the feeling that country has changed in the last 10-15 years. It's become a lot more pop-oriented.

That depends on what you consider pop. Eddy Arnold was as pop as they come. Same with Patsy Cline. Most people in her day had trouble distinguishing her from Connie Francis. Brenda Lee was a huge crossover star. Kenny Rogers, Anne Murray, Eddie Rabbitt, and many more stars from the 80s crossed over to pop. So today's country just continues that tradition.

100 points for BigA!

Country has been more like a pendulum since Randy Travis' "On The Other Hand" saved the whole thing from extinction. Before that, it spent decades shadowing Pop, usually in a piss-poor manner.

But before you say "wait a minute!"...whatever great songs you're thinking of from that period were the exceptions.

Nashville was in fear for its life when Elvis blew up in 1956. So as a defense mechanism, Decca's Owen Bradley and RCA's Chet Atkins invented the Pop Country sound and the music survived and thrived.

At its best, you had Patsy Cline, Jim Reeves, Eddie Rabbitt, Kenny Rogers, Glen Campbell, Ronnie Milsap and others. But as the 60's became the 70's and the producers' formulas grew tired, a lot of music came forth that could only be described as regrettable. This isn't just my opinion...Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Hank Jr. and others rebelled, fighting the system for the ability to make their music their way. That's why the term "Outlaws" - the 1975 album with Waylon, Willie, Tompall Glaser and Jessi Colter - stuck. (Wanted: The Outlaws was the first-ever platinum album in Country music.)

The early 80's, after the Urban Cowboy fad, were the worst of all. Louise Mandrell & ex-hubby R.C. Bannon...bad Pop remakes by legendary artists who shoulda known better...an addiction to a lite-Pop status quo.

Fortunately the above-mentioned Outlaws got some company.

Ricky Skaggs came to Nashville along with the Whites, questioning the system and why traditional fiddles and steel were verboten. Reba and The Judds joined Skaggs and George Strait, chipping away at Nashville's conventions from the traditional side, while Alabama chipped away from the Pop/Rock side, showing that Nashville Pop-Country could be better.

Randy Travis was the dynamite that blew everything up, rebooting Country Music and providing fertile ground for the rise of Garth Brooks, Alan Jackson etc.

Country went back in a more pop direction from about 1994-2001. But this time, it was competing in the mainstream of Pop Culture and the old ways of making Nashville Pop would no longer work. Shania Twain's collaboration with Mutt Lange The Woman In Me was another turning point, a giant loogie spat in the face of the Nashville system. Many don't know that Shania had an album before The Woman In Me, done Nashville's way to Nashville's formula...well, except for the bare midriff that caught Mutt's eye. Mercury Nashville head Luke Lewis called a meeting with Shania to discuss recording a follow-up album and instead was presented with The Woman In Me, completed right down to the cover art and placed on his desk.

9/11, O Brother Where Art Thou? (despite not having had a radio hit) and The Dixie Chicks' Home all pushed the pendulum back toward the traditional. The MuzikMafia acts took traditional sounds and mixed in Rock and even Hip-Hop, drawing in a much younger audience while the pendulum started to swing back toward Pop with Lady A and Taylor Swift.

Today's Country borrows from the best of all the above...while working in generous doses of The Eagles, America, Firefall and James Taylor. Now add in all the Classic Rock/Southern Rock influences coming via Jason Aldean/Eric Church/Brantley Gilbert etc, etc...and didn't a lot of this stuff borrow at least some of their sound from Nashville in the first place?

The point of providing this background is...Country now exists in its own parallel universe alongside Pop, and today is subject to its own cycles ranging from traditional to Pop and back as listener tastes dictate. 30-40 years ago there weren't enough Country listeners to matter except in the South and West (which were more sparsely populated back then - gotta figure that into this equation!), and record sales/concert receipts, both then and now, prove that.

Yes, many of today's biggest Country tours owe a great deal to Rock. Thank Garth Brooks for that, he's always openly acknowledged Kiss as a major influence on his live shows. Yet George Strait - still king in this format - continues to do it the old way, standing there in front of the mic. The contrast becomes special and IMO more cherished. It's the diversity within the format.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The diversity in the format is exactly why you can have two country stations in a market these days - one that leans more pop, and one that leans more country, or maybe one that leans younger, and one that leans older. It's not so different from the old days of AOR stations, which got beaten up when formats with a narrower focus started taking away chunks of their audience.

 

[TheBigA]

The diversity in the format is exactly why you can have two country stations in a market these days - one that leans more pop, and one that leans more country, or maybe one that leans younger, and one that leans older.

Practically speaking, that doesn't happen very much. Everyone wants the most sellable demo. As I said in my earlier post, what happens in multiple station markets is one station may play a legend once an hour, or play hot currents 55 spins a week. But no one wants to break up the big audience block, everyone wants to be a trade reporter (which means you need to play currents), and its the diversity that makes the format so appealing. Listeners can find everything they want on one station.

 

[SirRoxalot]

These days, I'm not sure people care as much about being a reporter to the trades as they do about bringing dollars through the door. WYRK is getting 25-54 (and more) because they have no competition. If somebody decided to go after the 25-39 country audience, or the 40-54 country audience, they'd have to decide whether to go head-to-head and narrow their focus, or lean (not shift) toward the opposite end of the 25-54 demo.

It's really not much different than the AC battles. You've got Hot AC that skews younger, and more traditional AC that skews older. It's pretty hard to own 30 years of music if you have competition.