Country In Knoxville

[airforcetwo]

I was wondering why no one wants to battle WIVK for the Country audience. I know they are the King Frog, but if done right, another station could maybe at least pull them from the top spot. It looks to me like Journal could try it with 93.1 or flip WKHT to 104.5 Kat Country. Doesn't 104.5's CHR/Rhythmic format pull listeners away from sister station, Star 102.1?

Anybody in Knoxville want to fill me in?<P ID="signature">______________
Johnny Caudle
Concord, NC</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Johnny Caudle on 04/07/06 06:31 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[radioranch]

> I was wondering why no one wants to battle WIVK for the
> Country audience. I know they are the King Frog, but if
> done right, another station could maybe at least pull them
> from the top spot. It looks to me like Journal could try it
> with 93.1 or flip WKHT to 104.5 Kat Country. Doesn't
> 104.5's CHR/Rhythmic format pull listeners away from sister
> station, Star 102.1?
>
> Anybody in Knoxville want to fill me in?
>

104.5 has already tried country with WQIX. Nobody will beat WIVK in our lifetime unless they screw up. Their dominance has much less to do with country music than it does heritage, news, sports, community involvement, top of mind awareness. In this day and age, no one will spend the money (and time) it would take to overcome all that.

93.1's signal is best in zip codes where WIVK isn't even number one.

Never underestimate the power of the kilowatts. And a 100 KW station making money would be crazy to flail at those windmills.

 

[RussAllen]

> Doesn't 104.5's CHR/Rhythmic format pull listeners away from sister
> station, Star 102.1?
>
> Anybody in Knoxville want to fill me in?


That, ironically, is what the "award winning programmer" Mike Hammond of Citadel/Knoxville told the staff back in June '03 when 104.5 THE BONE became HOT 104.5. The reality is that the people that listened to Star, that preferred a more rhythmic station had already left them for Citadel's WYIL. So HOT 104.5 just grabbed those people from Citadel. Listeners bounce back-and-forth between STAR and HOT no doubt but it's not a cannibalization since STAR tends to skew older than your typical CHR/POP station. Other board contributers can elaborate on that.

As the pop music cycle swings back to more pure pop product (and we're in the early stages of that happening) STAR will be playing more titles that HOT can't touch while simultaneously fewer rhythmic titles will crossover into CHR/POP.

Hope that helps a little.
<P ID="signature">______________
Free Lil Kim
April 29, 2005 5pm What a glorious day it was
</P>

 

[Kent]

> I was wondering why no one wants to battle WIVK for the
> Country audience. I know they are the King Frog, but if
> done right, another station could maybe at least pull them
> from the top spot. It looks to me like Journal could try it
> with 93.1 or flip WKHT to 104.5 Kat Country. Doesn't
> 104.5's CHR/Rhythmic format pull listeners away from sister
> station, Star 102.1?
> Anybody in Knoxville want to fill me in?

It's not like it hasn't been tried before. Pretty much every signal in Knoxville, at least on the FM, has been country at one time or another. None of them have done much damage to WIVK.

 

[knowitalljk]

> > I was wondering why no one wants to battle WIVK for the
> > Country audience. I know they are the King Frog, but if
> > done right, another station could maybe at least pull them
>
> > from the top spot. It looks to me like Journal could try
> it
> > with 93.1 or flip WKHT to 104.5 Kat Country. Doesn't
> > 104.5's CHR/Rhythmic format pull listeners away from
> sister
> > station, Star 102.1?
> >
> > Anybody in Knoxville want to fill me in?
> >
>
> 104.5 has already tried country with WQIX. Nobody will beat
> WIVK in our lifetime unless they screw up. Their dominance
> has much less to do with country music than it does
> heritage, news, sports, community involvement, top of mind
> awareness. In this day and age, no one will spend the money
> (and time) it would take to overcome all that.

No one would have to "beat" ivk,just pull a few shares away from the
frog giant....As the bad weather goes thru the area this Friday nite,Ivk
is wall to wall with coverage...no one else on the fm dial deems it worthy to
stop their music long enough to tell us about the bad weather...Channel 10 is
on full blown coverage to..Channel 8 is doing break ins.and haven't saw any
thing much at all from wate..channel 10 is like the ivk in the tv world,they
understand what it takes to be #1...I bet many of the other radio big wigs in the market have the frog on right now and listening to this coverage..you would think maybe they would get a clue to how it's done...Ivk keeps it simple and local..care about their listeners,and keep them well informed...ok I'm done..
>
> 93.1's signal is best in zip codes where WIVK isn't even
> number one.
>
> Never underestimate the power of the kilowatts. And a 100
> KW station making money would be crazy to flail at those
> windmills.
>

 

[RussAllen]

> No one would have to "beat" ivk,just pull a few shares away
> from the
> frog giant....As the bad weather goes thru the area this
> Friday nite,Ivk
> is wall to wall with coverage...no one else on the fm dial
> deems it worthy to
> stop their music long enough to tell us about the bad
> weather...Channel 10 is
> on full blown coverage to..Channel 8 is doing break ins.and
> haven't saw any
> thing much at all from wate..channel 10 is like the ivk in
> the tv world,they
> understand what it takes to be #1...I bet many of the other
> radio big wigs in the market have the frog on right now and
> listening to this coverage..you would think maybe they would
> get a clue to how it's done...Ivk keeps it simple and
> local..care about their listeners,and keep them well
> informed...ok I'm done..

Interesting points.

My first thought is: What's your definition of "a few shares"? Because you could pull ten shares off of WIVK and they'd still have a 13-15 share 12+. The station's numbers are just that huge, they'd have to tell people not to listen to go down that much.

I don't know if I qualiy as one of the 'radio big wigs in the market' but I don't have the frog on. In fact I thought about going to Th' Katch because they don't have any windows and it seemed like a decent enough spot to ride out a storm. Plus I could keep the "wimin folk from gettin scured".

Stopping the music to cover these storms is overkill imho. If this was a market where Hurricanes were a threat and one was coming, I could see stopping the music and punching up whatever local TV station you had a relationship with. Tornadoes are so much more unpredictable than hurricanes.

There are plenty of opportunities to inform your audience without stopping the station. Besides anyone that REALLY wants to stay on top of it will turn on TV anyway. And there's a segment of the audience that wants some escapism so-to-speak and will want a station with entertainment.

I've been thru earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes and blizzards. And the typical comment I got from listeners once things settled down was basically "yeah i heard about it on your station so I turned on (TV station name here) to see what was happening.
<P ID="signature">______________
Free Lil Kim
April 29, 2005 5pm What a glorious day it was
</P>

 

[tk]

> My first thought is: What's your definition of "a few
> shares"? Because you could pull ten shares off of WIVK and
> they'd still have a 13-15 share 12+. The station's numbers
> are just that huge, they'd have to tell people not to listen
> to go down that much.
>
> I don't know if I qualiy as one of the 'radio big wigs in
> the market' but I don't have the frog on. In fact I thought
> about going to Th' Katch because they don't have any windows
> and it seemed like a decent enough spot to ride out a storm.
> Plus I could keep the "wimin folk from gettin scured".
>
> Stopping the music to cover these storms is overkill imho.
> If this was a market where Hurricanes were a threat and one
> was coming, I could see stopping the music and punching up
> whatever local TV station you had a relationship with.
> Tornadoes are so much more unpredictable than hurricanes.
>
> There are plenty of opportunities to inform your audience
> without stopping the station. Besides anyone that REALLY
> wants to stay on top of it will turn on TV anyway. And
> there's a segment of the audience that wants some escapism
> so-to-speak and will want a station with entertainment.
>
> I've been thru earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes and
> blizzards. And the typical comment I got from listeners
> once things settled down was basically "yeah i heard about
> it on your station so I turned on (TV station name here) to
> see what was happening.
>

Thank goodness WIVK didn't listen to your philosophy...cause with
that kind of thinking they could never have been number one.

 

[wimzfan]

Both 104.5 and 93.1 have been country. 104.5 was Kix Country and before that they were Q-104.5 and played big band stuff from the 40's and early 50's. That's not really my cup of tea but the old Q-104.5 did do something awesome about 10:00 weeknights. They would play an old classic radio show in it's entirety complete with it's original commercials and stuff. That was kinda cool just experiencing what radio entertainment was like 50-60 years ago.

But anyway, 104.5 has been country and so has 93.1. Infact, this is how Star got started. 93.1 was country and 100.3 (then WOKI) was I-100 and they were playing Top 40. For some reason, the two frequencies swapped formats back in the early 90's - or maybe late 80's?????? My memory is a little hazy from that time. And 93.1 became Star 93.1 and WOKI became "The Hitkicker." I'm not sure how WOKI did against WIVK. I'd say they didn't hurt the frog but I beleive WOKI had a fairly steady following though.

 

[knowitalljk]

> > No one would have to "beat" ivk,just pull a few shares
> away
> > from the
> > frog giant....As the bad weather goes thru the area this
> > Friday nite,Ivk
> > is wall to wall with coverage...no one else on the fm dial
>
> > deems it worthy to
> > stop their music long enough to tell us about the bad
> > weather...Channel 10 is
> > on full blown coverage to..Channel 8 is doing break
> ins.and
> > haven't saw any
> > thing much at all from wate..channel 10 is like the ivk in
>
> > the tv world,they
> > understand what it takes to be #1...I bet many of the
> other
> > radio big wigs in the market have the frog on right now
> and

It's that kinda of thinking that will always keep the frog on top of the pad
for many years to come..Keep on playing the hits while all hell is breaking loose around you!...Then slam the frog for keeping everybody informed and updated...It's not the freaking music that keeps the frog going,don't anybody understand that...When satelite radio sweeps up all the other stations listeners
ivk will still be keeping it local and doing the "overkill" thing..So go ahead and reserve that seat at the Katch....you'll become a regular,no doubt!
> > listening to this coverage..you would think maybe they
> would
> > get a clue to how it's done...Ivk keeps it simple and
> > local..care about their listeners,and keep them well
> > informed...ok I'm done..
>
> Interesting points.
>
> My first thought is: What's your definition of "a few
> shares"? Because you could pull ten shares off of WIVK and
> they'd still have a 13-15 share 12+. The station's numbers
> are just that huge, they'd have to tell people not to listen
> to go down that much.
>
> I don't know if I qualiy as one of the 'radio big wigs in
> the market' but I don't have the frog on. In fact I thought
> about going to Th' Katch because they don't have any windows
> and it seemed like a decent enough spot to ride out a storm.
> Plus I could keep the "wimin folk from gettin scured".
>
> Stopping the music to cover these storms is overkill imho.
> If this was a market where Hurricanes were a threat and one
> was coming, I could see stopping the music and punching up
> whatever local TV station you had a relationship with.
> Tornadoes are so much more unpredictable than hurricanes.
>
> There are plenty of opportunities to inform your audience
> without stopping the station. Besides anyone that REALLY
> wants to stay on top of it will turn on TV anyway. And
> there's a segment of the audience that wants some escapism
> so-to-speak and will want a station with entertainment.
>
> I've been thru earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes and
> blizzards. And the typical comment I got from listeners
> once things settled down was basically "yeah i heard about
> it on your station so I turned on (TV station name here) to
> see what was happening.
>

 

[tibbs]

> Nobody will beat
>WIVK in our lifetime unless they screw up. Their dominance
> has much less to do with country music than it does
> heritage, news, sports, community involvement, top of mind
> awareness.

It's that "they'll always" win mindset that has power played
Knoxville since the early 1980's. "Trying to compete" against
WIVK is failure from the start. You have to have a different
take on it. First, you don't just grab a % of points since
they have so many. Second, yes, you have to have an equal
signal and third, and this is most important, you have to
realize that they are owned by Citadel, who with the exception
of two stations in TN - IVK being one - eventually will blink,
will screw up and they are not on their game the way the could
or should be most of the time.

That all being said, giving Knoxville listeners a fresh, innovative,
updated, exciting wanna-listen style of music and approach that
takes no prisoners can slice and whittle WIVK away. Looking
at the exact numbers and demos gives you all the tools you
need.

While IVK is indeed a huge mountain, look at what WSM-FM has done,
despite all the critics (me being one) and has killed WKDF's
chances because they are not focused and have a looser station
defeated image --- that's a Citadel station in Nashville. And
WSM took over a large part of WSIX's numbers (although the
morning is not one of them.) If they did pull away with a
strong morning drive, they'd be running away with it. No
one thought this would happen. And the numbers to share
between the three still don't equal which WIVK has.

Will someone really put an all out balls to the wall country
station on in Knoxville? Probably not. That's radio's demise
of this decade. And most Program Directors over the years
have been conned by 'IVK's rhetoric that "you can't touch this."
So they have instead decided to fight over a bunch of formats
pulling 20 to 30% of what 'IVK's numbers are --- and
feel proud to divide a 5 into a 3. Logical when you have
a small stick, but look at what money has been spent to
compete with CHR/etc., when Jazz was virtually cost free
and did as well.

Russ, I'll leave the Katch comments out, though. Hope your
safe!!!

 

[maddog1964]

> I was wondering why no one wants to battle WIVK for the
> Country audience. I know they are the King Frog, but if
> done right, another station could maybe at least pull them
> from the top spot. It looks to me like Journal could try it
> with 93.1 or flip WKHT to 104.5 Kat Country. Doesn't
> 104.5's CHR/Rhythmic format pull listeners away from sister
> station, Star 102.1?
>
> Anybody in Knoxville want to fill me in?
> Everyone on here remembers the dark day the big WOKI(a once really cool CHR)
went with,it hurts to say this,"The HitKicker". Wonder who ever come up with
that lame idea is not in a sanitorium by now. Remember dude, It's been tried.
Country is not bad when it's needed but don't fix it if it ain't broke. In the
words of Ron White "you can't fix stupid".....

 

[BRice16]

> Both 104.5 and 93.1 have been country. 104.5 was Kix
> Country and before that they were Q-104.5 and played big
> band stuff from the 40's and early 50's. That's not really
> my cup of tea but the old Q-104.5 did do something awesome
> about 10:00 weeknights. They would play an old classic
> radio show in it's entirety complete with it's original
> commercials and stuff. That was kinda cool just
> experiencing what radio entertainment was like 50-60 years
> ago.
>
> But anyway, 104.5 has been country and so has 93.1. Infact,
> this is how Star got started. 93.1 was country and 100.3
> (then WOKI) was I-100 and they were playing Top 40. For
> some reason, the two frequencies swapped formats back in the
> early 90's - or maybe late 80's?????? My memory is a little
> hazy from that time. And 93.1 became Star 93.1 and WOKI
> became "The Hitkicker." I'm not sure how WOKI did against
> WIVK. I'd say they didn't hurt the frog but I beleive WOKI
> had a fairly steady following though.
>

WOKI did well enough with country that Dick Broacasting (then-owner of WIVK, etc.) offered Jonny Pirkle way more than the station was worth for an LMA so they could play any format that wasn't country. Since the, they've dabbled in Rock, Classic Rock, Watered-down classic rock, AAA, and, finally, News talk, while moving the WOKI calls to the disaster that is Earl.

 

[RussAllen]

Look, I'm not knocking WIVK, in fact I've said before in other threads that they do what they do well, and superserve their audience. But please belive that some of their success is due to the fact that they are a country station in Knoxville on a great signal with a ton of heritage. I mean come on there's like three markets in America where a country station is in first place with a 20 share and none of those markets are exactly what you'd call an urban metropolis.

And I'm already a regular at Th' Katch. One of the managers and his wife are friends of mine. Stop by, and I'll by you a beer if you're polite.<P ID="signature">______________
Free Lil Kim
April 29, 2005 5pm What a glorious day it was
</P>

 

[tibbs]

> Look, I'm not knocking WIVK, in fact I've said before in
> other threads that they do what they do well, and superserve
> their audience. But please belive that some of their
> success is due to the fact that they are a country station
> in Knoxville on a great signal with a ton of heritage. I
> mean come on there's like three markets in America where a
> country station is in first place with a 20 share and none
> of those markets are exactly what you'd call an urban
> metropolis.
>
> And I'm already a regular at Th' Katch. One of the managers
> and his wife are friends of mine. Stop by, and I'll by you
> a beer if you're polite.
>

They have beer? Wow. What about the three foot rule. Knoxville
is that progressive, huh?

 

[upndownthedial]

> > I was wondering why no one wants to battle WIVK for the
> > Country audience. I know they are the King Frog, but if
> > done right, another station could maybe at least pull them
>
> > from the top spot. It looks to me like Journal could try
> it
> > with 93.1 or flip WKHT to 104.5 Kat Country. Doesn't
> > 104.5's CHR/Rhythmic format pull listeners away from
> sister
> > station, Star 102.1?
> >
> > Anybody in Knoxville want to fill me in?
> > Everyone on here remembers the dark day the big WOKI(a
> once really cool CHR)
> went with,it hurts to say this,"The HitKicker". Wonder who
> ever come up with that lame idea is not in a sanitorium by now.

It was actually the consultants at Burkhart-Douglas who came up with it.
Pirkle L O V E D the idea. whoknew?

 

[BRH]

> > > Anybody in Knoxville want to fill me in?
> > > Everyone on here remembers the dark day the big WOKI(a
> > once really cool CHR)
> > went with,it hurts to say this,"The HitKicker". Wonder who
>
> > ever come up with that lame idea is not in a sanitorium by
> now.
>
WOKI "a really cool CHR"??? I don't think so. WOKI was a horrible sounding CHR for most of it's later life. (especially when "Brother Clay" Gish was PD.) They had cheaply done sweepers that were re-edited over and over, and the music was totally off the wall with Clay's weird heavy metal stuff instead of the real chart hits. I certainly wasn't happy when 100.3 dropped CHR for Country, but I have no illusions that WOKI was a "great" CHR. The best CHR in Knoxville in the past 25 years was 95.3 WTNZ "Power 95" during their short CHR run from 1986-1988. (much better sounding and more of a true CHR than WOKI was).

Also, as far as the "Hitkicker" country format; I actually liked it pretty well as far as country formats go. Because it leaned younger, had fun jingles and goofy sweepers and was really upbeat. The original PD for "the Hitkicker", Brian Landrum, did an excellent job for a young leaning country format. I'm not necessarily a huge country fan, but I did think "the Hitkicker" was much more fun than WIVK (especially for the younger audience). <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by BRH on 04/11/06 01:30 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[jwk1979]

> But anyway, 104.5 has been country and so has 93.1. Infact,
> this is how Star got started. 93.1 was country and 100.3
> (then WOKI) was I-100 and they were playing Top 40. For
> some reason, the two frequencies swapped formats back in the
> early 90's - or maybe late 80's?????? My memory is a little
> hazy from that time. And 93.1 became Star 93.1 and WOKI
> became "The Hitkicker." I'm not sure how WOKI did against
> WIVK. I'd say they didn't hurt the frog but I beleive WOKI
> had a fairly steady following though.
>
A lot of people may not remember, but before WIMZ became Rock 104 in August 1979, it was WBIR-FM and was a country format, as was 94.3 FM and 95.3 FM in the early to mid eighties. With the exception of 97.5 FM and, possibly 102.1, I think ever other FM signal in the Knoxville area has attempted, and failed, to program a country format and compete against WIVK.

 

[tibbs]

I dunno, seems like OKI was pretty awesome in the period
of 1980-1984, if I do say so myself. It did slide after
that. Top 40-ally speaking.

 

[kjallen]

yeah, from what I remember, WOKI, FM 100, was pretty cool in the early eighties. I remember a night guy named Shotgun Stevens doing a nude photo contest on the air. He described in vivid details the photos he received. Okay... Knoxville, bible belt, 20 some years ago, that was edgy stuff. I heard he got drunk one night, locked himself in the studio (when the studio was still in Oak Ridge), and played Rocky Top over 200 times. This may not be true, or it may be about some other jock. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I-100 was the station I listened to all the time, and I cried when they flipped to country in April (the 10th, I think) of 1993. Then the other cool CHR I could pick up at my house in Jefferson County was 99.9 Kiss FM, flipped almost exactly a year later. Looking back, I have to admit, I-100 was pretty bad. Clay stayed off some cool records because he did not like them. Instead, you would hear pretty much every hair band worth playing and many not worth playing.

I remember hearing Billy Falcon/Power Windows almost a million times (15 years later it is still scorched into my brain). Who? What? My point, exactly.

My radio hero, Brian Egan (now of WMZQ’s Ben & Brian show) was the last night jock on I-100, he moved downstairs with most of the I-100 staff to CHR Z-93. Just a few months later, he was back up on the 6th floor on 100.3 doing country. At that point, I started listening to country. Now here I am, I have spent almost every year of my radio career in country.

A correction from an earlier post: Brian Landrum was not the original PD. He was about the third PD. He did some awesome things while at the station, including hiring me (to replace the legendary Jerry Howell, to do news/production). I think we had around a 5 share back then, this was in 1996. Ray Edwards was the first PD. A guy named Vic DiGiorno (spelling?) was there before Brian.

I heard that Pirkle hated the idea of going country. So much so that he flew to Colorado or somewhere out west while the change happened. Supposedly, he was in an airplane when the switch happened. Now the conspiracy stuff: I was told that the whole deal for WOKI to go country was orchestrated by Dick Broadcasting. They feared 102.1 or 103.5 flipping to country and becoming a real threat, so they paid Pirkle to flip, but not aggressively go after WIVK. I don’t know, I think that all may be BS… but it sure was easy for Dick to go ahead and start the LMA when it was time.

 

[tk]

> yeah, from what I remember, WOKI, FM 100, was pretty cool in
> the early eighties. I remember a night guy named Shotgun
> Stevens doing a nude photo contest on the air. He described
> in vivid details the photos he received. Okay... Knoxville,
> bible belt, 20 some years ago, that was edgy stuff. I heard
> he got drunk one night, locked himself in the studio (when
> the studio was still in Oak Ridge), and played Rocky Top
> over 200 times. This may not be true, or it may be about
> some other jock. Please correct me if I am wrong.
>
> I-100 was the station I listened to all the time, and I
> cried when they flipped to country in April (the 10th, I
> think) of 1993. Then the other cool CHR I could pick up at
> my house in Jefferson County was 99.9 Kiss FM, flipped
> almost exactly a year later. Looking back, I have to admit,
> I-100 was pretty bad. Clay stayed off some cool records
> because he did not like them. Instead, you would hear pretty
> much every hair band worth playing and many not worth
> playing.
>
> I remember hearing Billy Falcon/Power Windows almost a
> million times (15 years later it is still scorched into my
> brain). Who? What? My point, exactly.
>
> My radio hero, Brian Egan (now of WMZQ’s Ben & Brian show)
> was the last night jock on I-100, he moved downstairs with
> most of the I-100 staff to CHR Z-93. Just a few months
> later, he was back up on the 6th floor on 100.3 doing
> country. At that point, I started listening to country. Now
> here I am, I have spent almost every year of my radio career
> in country.
>
> A correction from an earlier post: Brian Landrum was not the
> original PD. He was about the third PD. He did some awesome
> things while at the station, including hiring me (to replace
> the legendary Jerry Howell, to do news/production). I think
> we had around a 5 share back then, this was in 1996. Ray
> Edwards was the first PD. A guy named Vic DiGiorno
> (spelling?) was there before Brian.
>
> I heard that Pirkle hated the idea of going country. So much
> so that he flew to Colorado or somewhere out west while the
> change happened. Supposedly, he was in an airplane when the
> switch happened. Now the conspiracy stuff: I was told that
> the whole deal for WOKI to go country was orchestrated by
> Dick Broadcasting. They feared 102.1 or 103.5 flipping to
> country and becoming a real threat, so they paid Pirkle to
> flip, but not aggressively go after WIVK. I don’t know, I
> think that all may be BS… but it sure was easy for Dick to
> go ahead and start the LMA when it was time.
>

The only cool CHR station in the area was 99.6 KISS/Asheville. That station sounded big and rocked outta little ol Asheville. Certainly much better than any station Knoxville has ever put on the air outside of WRJZ back in the day.

By the way...I have that aircheck of Shotgun doin the photo contest...
a rare moment in Knoxville radio history.