COVERAGE AREAS (The BIGGER Picture)

[Wildstyle K]

How accurate is this coverage map for Hot 97.5?
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KMVA&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

If that's accurate, then I change my mind about having Hot 97.5 flip to anything else because they are surely providing much of Arizona's outlaying areas and cities with a full top 40 format that would probably otherwise be non existent if they didn't exist with their current format. Now I sort of get the bigger picture here.

ALSO:

I looked up Prescott's radio stations. The main 101.5 KZON doesn't serve Prescott nearly as well as Hot 97.5 does, according to the maps and site info. However, this site http://streema.com/radios/search:Prescott,+AZ claims that 101.5 Jamz (along with other stations... like 95.5..etc.) are broadcasting into Prescott via translators. Is this true? It also shows that 101.5 Jamz is Prescott's most popular station, despite being on a translator. KZZP doesn't seem to enter Prescott at all.

I see that just like Hot 97.5, Power 98.3's coverage map also clearly covers Prescott. MEGA 104.3 also shows to cover Prescott very well. Does Prescott "have it made" all because of what we're providing here in Phoenix? There are some larger (and even top 20 major radio) markets that don't even have it this good - if those maps and information are accurate. Prescott even seems more fun than Tucson, chr and rhythmic / rhythmic oldies-wise! They even get Club 95 Latino Vibe.

Map info claims that KNRJ 101.1 is currently off the air.. but if KNRJ enters Prescott and Flagstaff, then that makes them more hip than even some of the larger west coast markets!

I guess a lot of these stations may be looking at more than just their Phoenix success. Maybe there is a bigger picture to these formats here.


*In case you're wondering, this research all began as I was looking up the coverage area of KWSS.

 

[DJ_Perry]

They are only concerned with the valley in order for the ratings to count in their favor.

 

[bnzbz]

Looks like someone somewhere made one heck of a typo. The translator you're speaking of, K246AA on 97.1 Mhz, relays a talk radio signal from the Flagstaff Area on 105.1 (KBTK, Kachina Village), not 101.5.

As was already mentioned, no one who is attempting to reach demos in Phoenix gives two hoots about listeners in Prescott. It doesn't affect Arbitron ratings for the Phoenix market and it would be silly (read: waste of money) for a station (Like KZON, Licensed to PHOENIX) that serves its COL well to put up a translator in a rural area.

Stations broadcasting (or should I say rim-shotting) from the Bradshaws like Movin' (COL Dewey-Humbolt), Power (COL Mayer), and Mega (COL Camp Verde) do have a unique coverage area in the northern communities because of their location. They reach north into Prescott and Flagstaff because their sticks are atop the same mountains that are preventing good reception of the South Mountain sticks. They just sell ads to the Phoenix market because that's where the money is.

The Beat is even more unique in the fact that it has a flamethrower 100KW signal from KNRJ (101.1) that covers, albeit marginally, a good chunk of the state from its transmitter site outside of Payson. Using the 92.7 (10 watts, South Mountain), 99.3 (18 Watts, North Mountain), and 93.5 (10 Watts, Flagstaff) translators they're able to fill in gaps where the "mother signal" is especially lacking or exhibiting severe multi-path.

Its been noted by several of my colleagues (and others on this forum) that the translators (particularly the 92.7 South Mountain signal) are probably pushing power above what is authorized. Not particularly surprising since they're already entering grey areas from the misuse of translators to try to take a piece of the Phoenix Arbitron pie.

 

[DJ_Perry]

Its been noted by several of my colleagues (and others on this forum) that the translators (particularly the 92.7 South Mountain signal) are probably pushing power above what is authorized. Not particularly surprising since they're already entering grey areas from the misuse of translators to try to take a piece of the Phoenix Arbitron pie.

I still can't believe its only 10 watts. It can be picked up better than 90.7 which is 2000 watts. Obviously being on SM is the factor

 

[beauduran]

Its been noted by several of my colleagues (and others on this forum) that the translators (particularly the 92.7 South Mountain signal) are probably pushing power above what is authorized. Not particularly surprising since they're already entering grey areas from the misuse of translators to try to take a piece of the Phoenix Arbitron pie.

I still can't believe its only 10 watts. It can be picked up better than 90.7 which is 2000 watts. Obviously being on SM is the factor

When it comes to FM HAAT (Height Above Average Terrain) is far, far more important that ERP (Effective Radiated Power). Hence why those sticks in the Bradshaws are only at about 40k watts as opposed to the South Mountain ones at 100k.

 

[EricStein]

I still can't believe its only 10 watts. It can be picked up better than 90.7 which is 2000 watts. Obviously being on SM is the factor

I couldn't pick up 92.7 in Ahwatukee, let alone the far East Valley.

Now, what about the KTLW translator on the White Tanks? That interferes with KVIT even in its "local" contour. I thought full-service signals (like KVIT) could claim interference from low-powered translator stations, even if the translator has been on the air for a longer period of time.

 

[DJ_Perry]

Yes that Bible channel always sneaks in even in the East Valley over KVIT. I will let Steve know to do that

 

[Wildstyle K]

I pray that someday, KVIT gets a stronger signal to at least cover central Phoenix.

 

[DJ_Perry]

I don't know how effective praying is, but we are working on that 8)

 

[azradiofan]

What happens with the 92.7 and 99.3 translators once the upgrade happens with 101.1?? Would be great if KVIT could pick up both translators! Especially 99.3 in the west Valley! 90.7 is some religious station out here!

 

[bnzbz]

When it comes to FM HAAT (Height Above Average Terrain) is far, far more important that ERP (Effective Radiated Power). Hence why those sticks in the Bradshaws are only at about 40k watts as opposed to the South Mountain ones at 100k.

KVIT is broadcast from a (if I recall from the last time I ate at the Mining Camp) a mini-two-bay atop a fake mining elevator at the Goldfield Ghost Town out SR-88. Some of our local pirates have better transmission schemes. Cost of rent and proximity to said translator atop the white tanks are probably major deciding factors in this though...

2kw could do a lot more damage if they could move it up to Usery Pass or somewhere similar out east (or by some amazing stroke of luck Shaw Butte or even South Mountain). Problem is of course that the FCC wouldn't allow it with the bible signal on the same channel to the west.

 

[XMportable]

Why did I hear KNRJ on 105.1 in Mesa?

 

[jeffinaz]

Why did I hear KNRJ on 105.1 in Mesa?

Translator out in Sunflower: (K285GF-FM 104.9 MHz) CP to move to 105.1. Sounds like it's already up.

 

[jeffinaz]

How accurate is this coverage map for Hot 97.5?
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KMVA&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

If that's accurate, then I change my mind about having Hot 97.5 flip to anything else because they are surely providing much of Arizona's outlaying areas and cities with a full top 40 format that would probably otherwise be non existent if they didn't exist with their current format. Now I sort of get the bigger picture here.

ALSO:

I looked up Prescott's radio stations. The main 101.5 KZON doesn't serve Prescott nearly as well as Hot 97.5 does, according to the maps and site info. However, this site http://streema.com/radios/search:Prescott,+AZ claims that 101.5 Jamz (along with other stations... like 95.5..etc.) are broadcasting into Prescott via translators. Is this true? It also shows that 101.5 Jamz is Prescott's most popular station, despite being on a translator. KZZP doesn't seem to enter Prescott at all.

I see that just like Hot 97.5, Power 98.3's coverage map also clearly covers Prescott. MEGA 104.3 also shows to cover Prescott very well. Does Prescott "have it made" all because of what we're providing here in Phoenix? There are some larger (and even top 20 major radio) markets that don't even have it this good - if those maps and information are accurate. Prescott even seems more fun than Tucson, chr and rhythmic / rhythmic oldies-wise! They even get Club 95 Latino Vibe.

Map info claims that KNRJ 101.1 is currently off the air.. but if KNRJ enters Prescott and Flagstaff, then that makes them more hip than even some of the larger west coast markets!

I guess a lot of these stations may be looking at more than just their Phoenix success. Maybe there is a bigger picture to these formats here.


*In case you're wondering, this research all began as I was looking up the coverage area of KWSS.

Lets see if I can clear up the Prescott/Flagstaff questions, as I just moved back down to Mesa from Flag.

97.5, 98.3, 101.1, 104.3 all have issues getting into Downtown Prescott. 101.1 has an even bigger problem, as there is the translator at 100.9 (for KNOT AM). As for EVA 95.5, No, no longer on the 104.9 Translator, Radio Locator is wrong on that one. It's the translator for KQST (102.9). KZON doesn't get into Prescott as there is the KAHM Translator at 101.7. (My guess on that one is that KAHM's Antenna being up on Mingus Mtn, helps it cover downtown Prescott.) I never had much of an issue on receiving 102.1 Downtown.

Flagstaff has some of the same issues. KNRJ had the translator at 93.5, but that recently became a translator for KAFF AM. But I could pick it up at home, with a good antenna (on 101.1). As for KAJM, that has the issue of the Translator @ 104.1 for KFLX (92.5 out of Chino Valley (Prescott). Before that Translator came back on the air, there was no issue in receiving 104.3. For 95.1, 97.5, and 98.3, those came in ok, to a point, up in Flagstaff. It wasn't perfect, by any means, but they can be picked up.

 

[jeffinaz]

Looks like someone somewhere made one heck of a typo. The translator you're speaking of, K246AA on 97.1 Mhz, relays a talk radio signal from the Flagstaff Area on 105.1 (KBTK, Kachina Village), not 101.5.

FYI, When I first moved to Prescott, back in '99, 97.1 carried KZON. Then went silent for a good while.

 

[DJ_Perry]

I find it interesting that there are many translators in Northern AZ which repeat stations from the valley. I knew of a couple, but was unaware of some of the ones just mentioned. Which sparks my question....

Is there a reason that these radio stations don't make mentions that they are also available elsewhere on different frequencies? I'm not suggesting to include it in their branding, but perhaps a promo or TOH sweeper with "also serving city X on frequency X", which would come in handy for people that travel or vaca often.

Also, what is a stations incentive to use a translator in an area where those ratings don't count?

 

[johndavis]

I find it interesting that there are many translators in Northern AZ which repeat stations from the valley. I knew of a couple, but was unaware of some of the ones just mentioned. Which sparks my question....

Is there a reason that these radio stations don't make mentions that they are also available elsewhere on different frequencies? I'm not suggesting to include it in their branding, but perhaps a promo or TOH sweeper with "also serving city X on frequency X", which would come in handy for people that travel or vaca often.

Also, what is a stations incentive to use a translator in an area where those ratings don't count?

In some cases, the reason is those stations are on translators in Northern AZ because the people who own the translators want to listen to the station they're rebroadcasting. You are allowed to insert :30 of underwriting every hour to cover your expenses. Ironbear was involved in a few of these, including KDKB's translator in the 80's and KZON's in the 90's. The spot was sent on the subcarrier from a cart deck and the translator switched from main to SCA and back on a subaudible tone.

As for why stations don't promote them, that's up to the station. KUPD used to promote its translators in Tucson and Flagstaff back in the 80's quite a bit. I remember being asked by the translator owner to talk ours up more at KZON but our management wasn't too interested. We were too busy trying to sell Phoenix and there wasn't any money for us to make outside of the city. We looked at the extra coverage as a bonus, not as a sales tool.

 

[fusejockey]

Interesting...
Back to the original question about 97.5. I was rather surprised last year driving from Yuma to Gila Bend then south down to Ajo; 97.5 was hitting my GMC truck radio pretty well. Most other FM signals were not near as clear and strong a signal. Perhaps, as we got closer to Gila Bend, KLPX 96.1 Tucson was a good strong signal most of the time.

My biggest surprise still was with 97.5 and its long distance DX abilities in Southern Arizona. Pretty impressive.

 

[Wildstyle K]

ALRIGHT:

Interesting...
Back to the original question about 97.5.  I was rather surprised last year driving from Yuma to Gila Bend then south down to Ajo;  97.5 was hitting my GMC truck radio pretty well.  Most other FM signals were not near as clear and strong a signal.  Perhaps, as we got closer to Gila Bend, KLPX 96.1 Tucson was a good strong signal most of the time.

My biggest  surprise still was with 97.5 and its long distance DX abilities in Southern Arizona. Pretty impressive.     

WHICH BRINGS ME RIGHT BACK TO THIS QUESTION:

I wonder what KMVA is doing wrong. They play strictly hits. They remain super consistent and safe. Other than their signal strength, why does it seem hard for them to pull a little more of a bigger audience? If CHR doesn't work for them, then what else could find high success on that signal?

What is keeping KMVA from getting higher numbers? Is it the signal strength or on-air presentation? And before you answer that, lets analyze and hypothesize even further;

Lets say that KZON and KMVA were to swap signals. Would KZON remain the highest rated chr if the current KMVA started broadcasting on the 101.5 frequency while KZON used 97.5? Or would KMVA's numbers rise if KZON started broadcasting from the 97.5 frequency?

What I'm trying to figure out is how much of a difference does signal strength make in comparison to overall on-air presentation in regard to who out performs who. Do people flock to KZON mostly because of the local talent, their particular musical programming choices, and other things of that nature that they have to offer, or does their success have more to do with the conveniently crystal clear signal with a wide coverage area?

And how well would KMVA do if their signal had equivalent coverage area and strength to KZON? Would they beat KKFR and KZZP and be a huge challenge to KZON? Or does the (local) talent CBS has to offer on KZON really make a huge difference when it comes to what listeners desire? I ask because I remember how long it took for KZON to beat KKFR despite all the static, which shows it's possible that other factors outside of good local talent or signal strength could determine the success of a station. I wonder if an all syndicated chr with a larger signal could win against an all local format.

People say on-air presentation makes a difference. But is it possible to get by and remain a winner with the most mediocre programming possible if you use a large signal? I guess WWWQ-FM already answers that question to a very large degree....

 

[johndavis]

What I'm trying to figure out is how much of a difference does signal strength make in comparison to overall on-air presentation in regard to who out performs who.

Let's put it this way:

First, you need something that people want to listen to.

Second, you need to make it easy to listen to.

You can put lousy product on a good signal and it will get some audience because it satisfies some people's needs and they'll use it when they don't want to use something else. It just won't live up to its potential because once you play the wrong song or talk too much people will tune it out.

You can put a superior product on a lousy signal, and it will get whatever audience it can get if people can pick it up. You can't be number one if you can't be heard.

So, to answer your question, you need both product and engineering to win. But you need the signal to be strong where it matters. There isn't much benefit in covering lonely stretches of highway and huge swaths of unpopulated desert if you can't be picked up on a clock radio where your target audience lives.