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Cox Focus Groups Provide Insight to Multicast Tuning

9

954

Guest
Just found this interesting article:

Cox Focus Groups Provide Insight to Multicast Tuning

Excerpt: "Following a qualitative research study conducted during November 2005, nearly nine out of ten consumers would prefer seeing HD Radio supplemental -- or multicast -- stations displayed as expanded bands instead of layered bands. In other words, instead of displaying a frequency's multicast streams as 100.7 HD1 and 100.7 HD2, the station would use a radio display of 100.7 for the HD1 stream and 120.7 for HD2."

http://beradio.com/currents/radio_currents_121205/index.html#cox

100.7 is a frequency. But 120.7 is not. It's meaningless.

And what if a station has three or five multicasts?

200.7?

Maybe they should have polled people who know what multicasts are.

I'd say 100.7-A through 100.7-Z should be sufficient for a long time.

Happy New Year and 73s from 954<P ID="signature">______________
NEW YEAR'S EDITION JUST POSTED 12/30:
http://www.univox.com/radio/20052006.html
with highlights of New Year's Eve Programming!
</P>
 
> 100.7 is a frequency. But 120.7 is not. It's meaningless.

That doesn't matter, apparently, to the listeners. You can be a purist all you want, but if "120.7" makes sense to the person trying to find your station, why would you want to keep a cumbersome system like "WXXX-2" instead?

Also, note that under DTV there are going to be a lot of stations whose "channel number" is unrelated to their broadcast frequency.

> And what if a station has three or five multicasts?

Perhaps you are not in the category below ("people who know what multicasts are") ... HD radio only allows for two streams.

> Maybe they should have polled people who know what
> multicasts are.

No, I think it is far better to find out what the average radio listener thinks the easiest identification is than to poll a bunch of technogeek purists.

> I'd say 100.7-A through 100.7-Z should be sufficient for a
> long time.

And I, who both know the technology and understand how listeners think, would say "120.7" is perfectly adequate <u>and</u> user-friendly.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Questions about multicast numbering

> > 100.7 is a frequency. But 120.7 is not. It's meaningless.
>
> That doesn't matter, apparently, to the listeners. You can
> be a purist all you want, but if "120.7" makes sense to the
> person trying to find your station, why would you want to
> keep a cumbersome system like "WXXX-2" instead?
>
> Also, note that under DTV there are going to be a lot of
> stations whose "channel number" is unrelated to their
> broadcast frequency.
>
> > And what if a station has three or five multicasts?
>
> Perhaps you are not in the category below ("people who know
> what multicasts are") ... HD radio only allows for two
> streams.

OK. I didn't know that.

Lemme ask you this: are multicasts like sidebands? Like SSB.

Like the existing subcarriers used for special programming?

(I don't know a lot aboput any of these, so keep that in mind.)

> > Maybe they should have polled people who know what
> > multicasts are.
>
> No, I think it is far better to find out what the average
> radio listener thinks the easiest identification is than to
> poll a bunch of technogeek purists.
>
> > I'd say 100.7-A through 100.7-Z should be sufficient for a
> > long time.
>
> And I, who both know the technology and understand how
> listeners think, would say "120.7" is perfectly adequate and
> user-friendly.

So it would have to go through 147.9?

73s from 954<P ID="signature">______________
NEW YEAR'S EDITION JUST POSTED 12/30:
http://www.univox.com/radio/20052006.html
with highlights of New Year's Eve Programming!
</P>
 
Re: Questions about multicast numbering

> Lemme ask you this: are multicasts like sidebands? Like SSB.
>
>
> Like the existing subcarriers used for special programming?
>
> (I don't know a lot aboput any of these, so keep that in
> mind.)

It is a hybrid analog and digital signal. Not precisely the same as a subcarrier, but very similar.

You might read this at the iBiquity website:
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.ibiquity.com/technology/hdradio_tech.htm>http://www.ibiquity.com/technology/hdradio_tech.htm</a>

> So it would have to go through 147.9?

Well, let's presume the digital "frequencies" start at 108.1, corresponding to the second programming on 88.1 (I use "frequencies" since that is what the listeners will perceive them as; it's actually the second 88.1 stream). Then 107.9 would be at "127.9" for its second stream; there would be no need to renumber the first streams as they would be the same programming as the analog service.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Cox Focus Groups are BS

They say it's a qualitative study and then they turn around and quote numbers! This is a sure sign of cr*p research.

Insight? What insight? If they didn't explain the choice any better in the field, how could study participants have known what they were being asked?

PS: I checked the web link. This study is junk research of the worst order. It is typical of the type of study done by consultants (as opposed to bona fide researchers) which always seem to support the consultants' recommendations. Further, the consultant, Bob Harper, is not a member of any of the major research organizations, including the Qualitative Research Consultants Association, suggesting he is not qualified to do this type of study by either education or experience. Cox, you got ripped off. He saw you coming.



>
>
> Excerpt: "Following a qualitative research study conducted
> during November 2005, nearly nine out of ten consumers would
> prefer seeing HD Radio supplemental -- or multicast --
> stations displayed as expanded bands instead of layered
> bands. In other words, instead of displaying a frequency's
> multicast streams as 100.7 HD1 and 100.7 HD2, the station
> would use a radio display of 100.7 for the HD1 stream and
> 120.7 for HD2."
>
http> ://beradio.com/currents/radio_currents_121205/index.html#cox
>
> <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by mwebster on 01/01/06 11:45 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> > 100.7 is a frequency. But 120.7 is not. It's meaningless.
>
> That doesn't matter, apparently, to the listeners. You can
> be a purist all you want, but if "120.7" makes sense to the
> person trying to find your station, why would you want to
> keep a cumbersome system like "WXXX-2" instead?
>
> Also, note that under DTV there are going to be a lot of
> stations whose "channel number" is unrelated to their
> broadcast frequency.
>
> > And what if a station has three or five multicasts?
>
> Perhaps you are not in the category below ("people who know
> what multicasts are") ... HD radio only allows for two
> streams.

I thought a third stream was technically possible, but that it would diminish the sound quality of all the streams significantly. Haven't a few stations experimented with 3-stream multicasting?

>
> > Maybe they should have polled people who know what
> > multicasts are.
>
> No, I think it is far better to find out what the average
> radio listener thinks the easiest identification is than to
> poll a bunch of technogeek purists.
>
> > I'd say 100.7-A through 100.7-Z should be sufficient for a
>
> > long time.
>
> And I, who both know the technology and understand how
> listeners think, would say "120.7" is perfectly adequate and
> user-friendly.
>
I would think that using the even frequencies following the odd ones (as in 100.7-2 being displayed as 100.8, 88.1-2 as 88.2, etc.) would be even more user friendly since both streams of a single station would be next to one another, rather than requiring the user to scan through all the primary streams in order to get to the secondary streams.
 
Re: Questions about multicast numbering

Most people I know think that frequencies are "channels" or "numbers". It sounds weird to me, such as when someone asked me what number my station is, and I think twice, until I realize he was asking for the frequency, and then I say that the *frequency* is 107.9 megahertz.

Imagine trying to explain how to find a secondary IBOC multicast channel.

Maybe if FM radio was presented as channels to the listeners instead of frequencies, it would be easier. In fact, the FM band is officially numbered by the FCC with channels numbered 201-300. I do find it more natural to say "you're listening to 107.9 FM" instead of "you're listening to Channel 300".<P ID="signature">______________
17-year-old radio geek
Location: Princeton Junction, NJ
AIM: KewlDude471
WWPH 107.9 FM: http://wwph1079fm.no-ip.org</P>
 
Finally! A company that is taking a thoughtful approach to implementation of advanced radio technology, and not jumping on board some knee-jerk, half-assed bandwagon whose approach could someday come back to haunt.
 
Re: Questions about multicast numbering

> Imagine trying to explain how to find a secondary IBOC
> multicast channel.

Under the Cox approach, there's nothing to it: "You tune to 109.5." Your radio doesn't go up that high? You need to get one of the new ones that does.

What's complicated about that? The fact that "109.5" isn't actually transmitting at 109.5 MHz is of no more importance than the fact that when my DTV box is tuned to "channel 13," it's not actually tuned to RF channel 13.

Like it or not, this is the era we're entering.

(Oh, and KM? There are indeed several broadcasters experimenting with more than two HD subchannels. There are a number of ways to slice up the 96 kbps stream that HD FM provides, and while they may not sound great, some broadcasters are - even at this very moment - playing with HD-3 and beyond. I believe Seattle's in the forefront on that. We just got our very first HD-2 here in Rochester last month.) <P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 JUST RELEASED! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
 
Re: Questions about multicast numbering

> (Oh, and KM? There are indeed several broadcasters
> experimenting with more than two HD subchannels. There are a
> number of ways to slice up the 96 kbps stream that HD FM
> provides, and while they may not sound great, some
> broadcasters are - even at this very moment - playing with
> HD-3 and beyond. I believe Seattle's in the forefront on
> that. We just got our very first HD-2 here in Rochester last
> month.)

Not having a HD radio myself, I have to operate on what I am told by others in terms of how receivers work. What I have been told thus far is that the radios are only set up for analog plus two digital channels per FM broadcast frequency. If, in light of the above, there are radios that have the capability of a third digital channel, please clue me (and the rest of the board) in.

It would seem to me that, if there is going to be a remapping scheme for HD radio's "non-primary" streams, the industry is going to have to agree on how many streams per frequency are going to be the standard. And if -- as you say above -- going higher than two streams degrades the audio quality, we may be better off sticking with two.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> Finally! A company that is taking a thoughtful approach to
> implementation of advanced radio technology, and not some
> knee-jerk, half-assed approach that could someday come back
> to haunt.

Maybe their intent was good, but the choices offered weren't.

Does it make sense for two signals from Y-100, for example,
to be on 100.7 and 120.7, rather than adjacent? Even if the
numbers no longer have any significance.

This sounds like the same mentality that took away so many
software hotkeys because mouse movements were easier for
novices to understand.<P ID="signature">______________
NEW YEAR'S EDITION JUST POSTED 12/30:
http://www.univox.com/radio/20052006.html
with highlights of New Year's Eve Programming!
</P>
 
Re: Questions about multicast numbering

> > So it would have to go through 147.9?
>
> Well, let's presume the digital "frequencies" start at
> 108.1, corresponding to the second programming on 88.1 (I
> use "frequencies" since that is what the listeners will
> perceive them as; it's actually the second 88.1 stream).
> Then 107.9 would be at "127.9" for its second stream; there
> would be no need to renumber the first streams as they would
> be the same programming as the analog service.

You said there were two available. That's why I said 147.9<P ID="signature">______________
NEW YEAR'S EDITION JUST POSTED 12/30:
http://www.univox.com/radio/20052006.html
with highlights of New Year's Eve Programming!
</P>
 
Re: Questions about multicast numbering

> > > So it would have to go through 147.9?
> >
> > Well, let's presume the digital "frequencies" start at
> > 108.1, corresponding to the second programming on 88.1 (I
> > use "frequencies" since that is what the listeners will
> > perceive them as; it's actually the second 88.1 stream).
> > Then 107.9 would be at "127.9" for its second stream;
> there
> > would be no need to renumber the first streams as they
> would
> > be the same programming as the analog service.
>
> You said there were two available. That's why I said 147.9

I understand that. But I don't think anyone would want to have a new "frequency" for the stream that simulcasts the analog audio, so I am operating under the presumption that (using our same example) the first digital stream would still carry the "107.9" number.
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Questions about multicast numbering

> > > Then 107.9 would be at "127.9" for its second stream;
> > there
> > > would be no need to renumber the first streams as they
> > would
> > > be the same programming as the analog service.
> >
> > You said there were two available. That's why I said 147.9
>
> I understand that. But I don't think anyone would want to
> have a new "frequency" for the stream that simulcasts the
> analog audio, so I am operating under the presumption that
> (using our same example) the first digital stream would
> still carry the "107.9" number.

I just reread what you wrote. I misunderstood.

If HD-1 going to always be the same as analog, then each
station actually only gets one stream of new content.

<P ID="signature">______________
NEW YEAR'S EDITION JUST POSTED 12/30:
http://www.univox.com/radio/20052006.html
with highlights of New Year's Eve Programming!
</P>
 
Other considerations

The nature of digital broadcasting is that the bandwidth could be sliced in several different ways. For example, frequency division multiplexing allocates a specific amount of bandwidth for each stream. Time division multiplexing packets the digital data, and allocates a slice of time for each stream.

Add to those options the fact that compression algorithms keep getting better, which means less bandwidth is required for an acceptable audio stream.

Let's just say that digital broadcasting needs to be considered a work in progress. I think that digital needs to happen, but I'm not at all convinced that IBOC will be the final solution to the problem.
 
Re: Cox Focus Groups are Fully Valid

> They say it's a qualitative study and then they turn around
> and quote numbers! This is a sure sign of cr*p research.

If you do enough focus groups, you can tabulate the responses on any questions asked in significantly identical fashion (right down to wording) of all groups and tabulate the same way you would tabulate a phone, in home or intercept perceptual questionnaire. The results are perfectly valid, and you only need enough people to get to the "ability to replicate" point. I suspect that any sample over about 50 or 60 in this type of study which was very basic would be fully replicable.

Gosh, all they were asking was "is it easier to identify 92.3 1 and 92.3 2 or 92.3 and 109.3? This is not like finding teeth in a hen's mouth.
>
> PS: I checked the web link. This study is junk research of
> the worst order. It is typical of the type of study done by
> consultants (as opposed to bona fide researchers) which
> always seem to support the consultants' recommendations.
> Further, the consultant, Bob Harper, is not a member of any
> of the major research organizations,

Bob Harper is not a consultant, he is a researcher. Radio research is a very specialized field, and most researchers are known by reputation. Bob is among the best.

One could argue that the best researchers are also consultants, as they guide a client in interpreting data... but in the radio context, researchers do research, and are generally not programming consultants excepet in the condition that they are radio specialists and know how to assist clients.

> including the
> Qualitative Research Consultants Association, suggesting he
> is not qualified to do this type of study by either
> education or experience. Cox, you got ripped off. He saw
> you coming.

Most larger research companies do not understand radio at all. So the radio industry has dedicated specialists, not generalists who go on to do studies about instant cake mixes the next day. The techniques and procedures used are of the highest level, but there is no need to join professional groups as referrals come within a single industry, not from blind searches and directories.
 
NO WAY!

David, while you seem to have (often well-informed) opinions about most every market on this board, but you apparently don't even understand the basics of research.

Focus groups are a qualitative method. The release even used the word "qualitative." If this "consultant" is asking questions in an "identical fashion" like in a questionnaire and tabulating responses, he is not doing qualitative research.

The broadcasting industry is known for its tendency to hire research hacks, unqualified individuals who are able to sell themselves as "consultants" or "gurus." (Same can be said of politicians.) There is a built-in conflict of interest when a consultant attempts to do research. Consultants have an axe to grind. What they sell is their expertise in the industry. A good qualitiative researcher knows research but otherwise comes in to a study with a blank canvas - knowing nothing.

In his website, consultant Harber states as his qualifications that he has worked in the radio industry and sat on the other side of the mirror. Translation: He watched some focus groups and figured he could do that.

Professional associations in research are not for soliciting business, they are for professional development. In fact many, like the QRCA (Qualitative Research Consultants Association), specifically bar those on the client side from events and membership.

The size of the sample matter far less than how the sample is drawn. This is statistics 101. You should know better. A collection of "group interviews" (I won't dignify what Harper did by calling them "focus groups") can not be considered a random sample and therefore can not be considered statistically valid. An. additional element of bias, unless "respondents" wrote down their answers to Harper's "questionnaire," respondents were likely influenced by each other. That's useful in a true exploratory focus group but not in a survey you would "tabulate the same way you would tabulate a phone, in home or intercept perceptual questionnaire."

Apparently the radio industry seeking to find researchers who understand radio has decided to hire consultants who don't understand research. For many radio clients, their idea of "understanding radio" is someone who agrees with their biases and pre-conceptions, and tells the client what he wants to hear. Maybe the poor quality of audience research - especially qualitative (exploratory, diagnostic and motivational) studies - is a big part of the reason why terrestrial radio is losing its audience.
 
Re: Absolutely

> David, while you seem to have (often well-informed) opinions
> about most every market on this board, but you apparently
> don't even understand the basics of research.

Very amusing.

> Focus groups are a qualitative method. The release even
> used the word "qualitative." If this "consultant" is asking
> questions in an "identical fashion" like in a questionnaire
> and tabulating responses, he is not doing qualitative
> research.

If you do enough inteerviews in a focus group or personal interview setting to get to the point of replicability, you can tabulate the responses. If you do 6 to 8 focus group projects, and within them, you get sepcific responses form every participant on certain questions, this data can be used for a quantitative tabulation.

Companies that use electronic gaterning methods such as dials or touchpads often start a project by gathering responses to a question set that allows the qualitatitive data to be better understood. At the same time, if enough interviews are done, you have attributable answers from each respondent.

Further, if audio (it is radio after all) is used to test talent, music blends, commercials, ect., then one can get EKG type readings at the respndent level but combine for an overall view of common and dissimilar reactions based on any subset that can be created using other questions as a base, such as age, sex, usage of radio, ethnicity, etc.

In other words, the only reason why a focus group could not be used to gater cuantitative data is if there is not a large enough sample to create a replicable, useful sample.
>
> The broadcasting industry is known for its tendency to hire
> research hacks, unqualified individuals who are able to
> sell themselves as "consultants" or "gurus." (Same can be
> said of politicians.) There is a built-in conflict of
> interest when a consultant attempts to do research.

Funny, but the research companies most used in the industry are not programming companies... Critical Mass, Colemean, Paragon, Harker, Edison, Mark Ramsey, Pinnacle, etc. All offer research guidance, such as insight in the interpretation.

In fact, in radio situations the biggest issue is interpreting what th elistener has said. And most of the prior work has to do with the supervision of recruiters, preparatin of test material, selection of test venues so tha thtey are located appropriately for the desired sample, etc. Very little work involves project design as radio research is mostly about music testing, testing of formats and testing of talent and overall image. Once you have designed the basic products, it does not matter what association you are a member of.

> Consultants have an axe to grind. What they sell is their
> expertise in the industry. A good qualitiative researcher
> knows research but otherwise comes in to a study with a
> blank canvas - knowing nothing.

Folks that have tired that generally fail. The reason is that we have a rather bizarre model. We do NOT program for the audience, but for the rating service that measures the audience. We do not want research virgins in smaple, we want research friendly individuals. And we select our samples not with total randomity, because we are attempting to mattch Arbiytron in certain target demos, lenght of radio usage, age, sex and ethnic balance. Getting that across to a company that has no knowledge of radio would take a great amount of time.

Radio research companies are set up to efficiently and quickly measure the key items on a station's research checklist. An AMT is more about the recruit than anything else. An outsider does not have the intuitive, experience baed understanding of the dynamics between P2 and P1 listeners, for example. A radio-specific company does.
>
> In his website, consultant Harber states as his
> qualifications that he has worked in the radio industry and
> sat on the other side of the mirror. Translation: He
> watched some focus groups and figured he could do that.

I know Harker. He took time off and learned, because he realized there were stations doing research that did not use the data well because there was a missing step... the bridge between data and programming.

Most of the really good researchers in radio came from programming, in fact. The techniques of sample building are relatively simple. Any reasonably intelligent person can teach themselves how to use SPSS and get cluster and factor analysis. The sample frame was already designed by Arbitron, so we mimic that.
>
> Professional associations in research are not for soliciting
> business, they are for professional development. In fact
> many, like the QRCA (Qualitative Research Consultants
> Association), specifically bar those on the client side from
> events and membership.

Yep. They are restricting the entrance so companies will not form in-house research divisions. The catch there is that if you do it in-house and have competent people, you do not need to belong to those associations.
>
> The size of the sample matter far less than how the sample
> is drawn.

I already said that. However, if you are going to use a primarily perceptual method, such as focus groups (a party without the booze) or one-on-ones (far more reliable) to get quantitative data, then you need a sample size that is replicable. So, in addition to getting th right people, you need enough people.

A radio research company can do studies where they look at parts of the sameple... such as "every third person" or "the first 50" etc. and can compare in multiple projects to see where the sample is "big enough" for the desired purpose. They can even do testing to determine the optimal hook length, do reverse order hook testing to determine where fatigue comes in, and whether it is a function of format lifestyle, age, sex, P1 or P2 level, etc. No non-radio research company is going to be able to do this economically.


> This is statistics 101. You should know better.
> A collection of "group interviews" (I won't dignify what
> Harper did by calling them "focus groups") can not be
> considered a random sample and therefore can not be
> considered statistically valid.

If the total participant pool in the group of groups is reflective of the universe under study, you certainly can make quantitative analysis on the results as long as a response is recorded for each indivisual. This is, again, why I like using the dial or touchpad to get responses on non-interpretative questions.

> An. additional element of
> bias, unless "respondents" wrote down their answers to
> Harper's "questionnaire," respondents were likely influenced
> by each other. That's useful in a true exploratory focus
> group but not in a survey you would "tabulate the same way
> you would tabulate a phone, in home or intercept perceptual
> questionnaire."

But if the data is recorded (paper to me is tedious, and often has a literacy/likes to write" bias) for each respondent, then you have a quantitative component to a qualitative study. At that point, the issue is, assuming proper recruiting, that you have "enough" respondents to make any cell you look at reasonably stable and reliable.
>
> Apparently the radio industry seeking to find researchers
> who understand radio has decided to hire consultants who
> don't understand research. For many radio clients, their
> idea of "understanding radio" is someone who agrees with
> their biases and pre-conceptions, and tells the client what
> he wants to hear. Maybe the poor quality of audience
> research - especially qualitative (exploratory, diagnostic
> and motivational) studies - is a big part of the reason why
> terrestrial radio is losing its audience.

In many ways, you are attributing a non-existent problem to non-necessary research. Radio stations do not research the radio industry. They research the specific issues of each station. No local station, needing to make ratings and revenue goals, can possibly worry about what will happen to radio 10 years from now.

When we talk about "radio" as opposed to "a radio station" the issues change. But the fact is that nearly the same percentage of persons listen to radio today as they did when Aribtron started, and the TSL in 1950 per person is within about an hour of what it was in 1950...

The researchers in radio are pretty good at what they do. I have seen a good programming team in a previously unresearched large market (over 40 stations) take research from one of the companies I named and hit #1 in less than 30 days. If the research were bad, the station would have had no impact or limited impact.

I have also seen a format developed entirely by research (one of those, "that will never work" ones...) become the fastest growing and most successful format of the last year in a bunch of top 10 and top 20 US markets. Only because the researcher knew reseaarch and radio could this one have been done, because a call was made to repeat the study zeroing in on findings in the first one that were less than obvious, creating, int he aftermath, a new format. An outsider would not have seen it, ever.
>
 
Re: Other considerations

Then, of course, there are those who want to expand the existing FM band the old-fashioned way. So while you can't tune into 82.1 FM yet here in North America, it would be best to allow for such expansion. My vote would be to have the streams numbered as 88.1-107.9, 188.1-207.9, 288.1-307.9, etc. This would allow a consistent implementation across any new territory the basic FM dial picks up, and the same algorithm could be applied overseas as well (Japan, for instance, goes as low as 76 on the FM dial).<P ID="signature">______________
chargeradioweb.jpg
</P>
 
Re: Other considerations

> Then, of course, there are those who want to expand the
> existing FM band the old-fashioned way. So while you can't
> tune into 82.1 FM yet here in North America, it would be
> best to allow for such expansion. My vote would be to have
> the streams numbered as 88.1-107.9, 188.1-207.9,
> 288.1-307.9, etc. This would allow a consistent
> implementation across any new territory the basic FM dial
> picks up, and the same algorithm could be applied overseas
> as well (Japan, for instance, goes as low as 76 on the FM
> dial).

Japan was smart enough not to put television on low-VHF. Here, in order for FM to expand down there, the FCC will have to (we hope) move television off of the low-VHF channels after the digital transition.

You won't be seeing an expansion above 108 MHz, though; that band is used internationally for aircraft navigation.

I highly recommend the frequency allocation chart available at the National Telecommunications and Information Administration website:
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.html>http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.html</a><P ID="signature">______________


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