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CP for new station in Mount Holly

A

airforcetwo

Guest
I just noticed at the FCC website that Sutton Radiocasting Corp. has a CP to move WGHC 1370 AM from Clayton, GA to Mount Holly, NC and to 870 AM with 3,000 watts. It looks like the station would be daytime only. I think that is to protect WWL 870/New Orleans.<P ID="signature">______________
Johnny Caudle
Concord, NC</P>
 
> I just noticed at the FCC website that Sutton Radiocasting
> Corp. has a CP to move WGHC 1370 AM from Clayton, GA to
> Mount Holly, NC and to 870 AM with 3,000 watts. It looks
> like the station would be daytime only. I think that is to
> protect WWL 870/New Orleans.
>

If I'm not mistaken 870 is the old WGTL Kannapolis frequency. I'm surprised I didn't think the FCC was granting any new daytime stations. Maybe that's why they consider it a move?

I'd like to see fewer, clearer, more powerful AM stations, not lots of little stations that few can hear and the market can't support.

MikeM
 
> If I'm not mistaken 870 is the old WGTL Kannapolis
> frequency.

I was wondering when someone would get around to filing to put a station on WGTL's old slot. 870 is the quietest spot on the AM dial in that area.

> I'm surprised I didn't think the FCC was
> granting any new daytime stations. Maybe that's why they
> consider it a move?

It is a move, but I imagine they will get a listenable amount of nighttime signal. It would have the required spacing from WWL, and a 4-tower directional to null signal to the southwest would give the added benefit of sending more signal over Charlotte at night.

> I'd like to see fewer, clearer, more powerful AM stations,
> not lots of little stations that few can hear and the market
> can't support.

Well, perhaps we would all like that, but history has shown that only a heavy-handed, politically suicidal action of direct forcing of stations to shut down will ever bring such a thing to pass. We must learn to live with the philosophy that more stations is a good thing for everyone. That concept will never change as long as our democracy lives.

Realizing the nature of the beast...
Matt Smith, Station Manager
WGSR-TV "Star-39"
Reidsville, NC
 
I'm surprised I didn't think the FCC was
> granting any new daytime stations. Maybe that's why they
> consider it a move?

Exactly, Mike!!

That's why there's weird applications like this. They skirt the law. No new daytime stations will sign on the air, they'll just pack up and move across the country and to a new frequency!

As for Mt Holly's new station, it will be a daytimer. The coverage of Charlotte will be phenomenal. See this link:
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bi...unl=Y&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&sr=Y&s=C&sid=&x=15&y=9

And since the FCC is apparently going to allow these cross-country moves, useless 250watt AM daytimers in the sticks are now worth MEGA BUCKS to companies that have found empty daytime dial positions in urbanized areas.<P ID="signature">______________
-Todd Jenkins
The best things in life aren't things.</P>
 
How Long Has THIS Been Going On?

I guess I've been living under a rock...I know the FCC has become so leniant the past 20 years that it's almost a joke...but I would've never thought that an AM station could "move" almost 200 miles. Can someone provide a brief tutorial on this? I am assuming that--in this case that 1370 in Clayton, GA, must leave the air when the Mt Holly station goes on? And, is there ANY limit on distance? Could I "move" a station from here to California if I wanted?
Could someone do the same with the now dark 1600(former WGIV) or is that different since it migrated to the expanded band?

Eric
 
Re: How Long Has THIS Been Going On?

> I guess I've been living under a rock...I know the FCC has
> become so leniant the past 20 years that it's almost a
> joke...but I would've never thought that an AM station could
> "move" almost 200 miles. Can someone provide a brief
> tutorial on this? I am assuming that--in this case that 1370
> in Clayton, GA, must leave the air when the Mt Holly station
> goes on? And, is there ANY limit on distance? Could I "move"
> a station from here to California if I wanted?
> Could someone do the same with the now dark 1600(former
> WGIV) or is that different since it migrated to the expanded
> band?
>
> Eric
>
Eric, yes I read somewhere that 1370 will be required to cease when 870 comes on. I was surprised like you when I saw this. Not sure how they can do it. I'm sure this way done because I doubt the FCC is approving any "new" daytime only stations.

As for 1600 the allcation was lost when the station moved to 1660. 1370 in Clayton too will be lost when 870 comes on here.

The question what do you do with a daytimer to make money?
 
Re: How Long Has THIS Been Going On?

>
> The question what do you do with a daytimer to make money?
>

Here's a radical idea...LIVE and LOCAL.

wncmacs
 
Re: How Long Has THIS Been Going On?

> >
> > The question what do you do with a daytimer to make money?
>
> >
>
> Here's a radical idea...LIVE and LOCAL.
>
> wncmacs
>
I think we'd all like to see that, but the realities are you have to pay people and that takes money! Still from looking at this groups other stations they might try it. They will have to sell direct to business to make it work. Starting an AM station is tough, being a daytimer makes it even tougher!

Ah for the days when a radio station was a local man's plaything and not a "profit center".

MikeM
 
Mount Holly - Answers

At the top, I must confess that I have mixed feelings about the rules that allow this. If it is being done by either me or someone I respect, I suppose I'd have to be for it. On the other hand, when it's done by some greasy, rotten, no good, ain't never been no good, crook, thief, thug-type person, whose breath stinks, and who does not love Jesus, then I'm definitely against it.

Okay, so why two sides on this. Well, let's talk about the Mount Holly proposal. First of all, it's Art Sutton who's doing this, and, as I have publically stated several times, I have a great deal of respect for Art's passion for local, small-market radio. In my opinion, he's a good operator. No, I don't agree with 100% of what he does, and how he does it, but the friendship is good enough to allow me to give him my unvarnished opinion, even when he doesn't ask for it!!!

Art's operation of WGHC has certainly been acceptable, although he'll be the first to tell you that the FM (WRBN) gets more attention, and that's because it has more listeners, and more business. Still, WGHC provides its own, unique service to Rabun and surrounding counties.

Yes, like SO many others have done, Art has taken advantage of what I consider to be a loophole in the rules. As some of you have pointed out, the FCC has not granted new authorizations for daytime only stations, since the late 80's. This is NOT a new station. It is simply frequency change/city of license change of an already existing station.

NO, I don't think this is what the spirit of ruling was designed to allow. In my opinion, I think the intent was to allow stations in larger, WAY over-radioed markets, relocate to smaller markets...those without local service. I also think the policy was designed to allow stations licensed to tiny suburban communities, to be able to change COL, if the city decided to unincorporate, or even just disappear.

Okay, this rule allows that which positively benefits the public, but it also has its negatives, as well.

Here's the difference between the two (yes, two...more below) applications that Art has filed. compared to SO many others. Yes, WGHC on 1370 will leave Clayton, moving to become Mount Holly's 870. BUT, my flock of fellow flatulators, WGHC Radio WILL remain in Clayton! Huh? What? How? Simple, you barons of broadcast. Simultaneously with the application to move the exsisting facility from Clayton to Mounty Holly, Art filed an application for a NEW station at Clayton...a fulltimer, which will operate on 1400. Of course, anyone could've applied for the new facility, but Art was prepared, if someone had. If another applicant had ended up with the new Clayton grant, he would've either tried to buy them out, sold the FM to them, or could've even returned the Mount Holly CP, which would've left 1370 licensed to Clayton, making it impossible for a new station to licensed on 1400. It's the great radio chess game, and you have to look at all the possible strategy, before making a move.

Now, about that other Ga-Carolina major change application. Art has also filed to move Elberton's 1400 to one the Atlanta suburbs, becoming a fairly powerful facility on 890. Simultaneously, an application to put a new fulltime station at Elberton (this one on 1490) was filed, and subsequently granted.

What's Art gonna do with the Charlotte and Atlanta permits? SELL THEM, of course, and likely for big $$$. I think it's a win-win. No community has lost a station, while two communities have gained a station. Art gets moolah to invest in his existing operation, allowing him to do an even better job of serving those communities where he operates.

Likely programming on the new Charlotte and Atlanta stations? Mose certainly they'll either do religion or some sort of ethnic/foriegn language format. Attempting a "regular or normal" format, would be laughable, considering the competition in most of these large markets. Those that feel that have no current voice, are always the ones who jump on these type facilities. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, but the original permittee usually comes out a winner.

I won't get into some of the others who've filed these type applications. That would lead me into doin' some name callin', so I'll stop right here. <P ID="signature">______________
Jay Braswell - Moderator
Atlanta/North Florida/South Carolina/Georgia Boards</P>
 
> I'm praying for Air America on 870 in the QC
>

My problem with that is political talk radio is just so much noise to me. My views are rather liberal but I'd rather hear talk that looks at both sides of an issue.

The political talk format has become so mean spirited. I may not agree with our President but I respect the office. I won't call him names.

My feeling is the right wing leaning talk shows are popular not because they are informative, but rather because they tell people what they want to hear and what they want to believe.

I know what I would like as a listener but I don't know that it would pay the bills. To keep costs low I'd be tempted to run it with the kids going to the Carolina School of Broadcasting, as part of their training. It could be interesting. Kind of like a local version of "American Idol" some would be good and some would be bad. There would be jocks to do their thing,maybe a talk show or two, news reporters, and Sports guys who could even do play by play of some High school games (not the night ones of course).

Radio folks have got to start thinking outside the box.

MikeM
 
Re: Mount Holly - Answers

Makes sense to me. It would be nice to have a good small market station but Charlotte is just too big for that.

Maybe GHB will buy it so that it doesn't compete with WHVN.

MikeM
 
> I know what I would like as a listener but I don't know that
> it would pay the bills. To keep costs low I'd be tempted to
> run it with the kids going to the Carolina School of
> Broadcasting, as part of their training. It could be
> interesting. Kind of like a local version of "American
> Idol" some would be good and some would be bad. There would
> be jocks to do their thing,maybe a talk show or two, news
> reporters, and Sports guys who could even do play by play of
> some High school games (not the night ones of course).

That's an interesting idea, Mike. It seems--and I may likely be wrong--was this done in Knoxville in the early 80s when WIVK(AM) moved from 850--a daytimer--to the old WNOK frequency at 990? It may not have been for the exact purpose you've described but I think the Univ of Tenn got the 850 frequency.
 
Re: Mount Holly - Answers

> Likely programming on the new Charlotte and Atlanta
> stations? Mose certainly they'll either do religion or some
> sort of ethnic/foriegn language format. Attempting a
> "regular or normal" format, would be laughable, considering
> the competition in most of these large markets. Those that
> feel that have no current voice, are always the ones who
> jump on these type facilities. Sometimes it works, and
> sometimes it doesn't, but the original permittee usually
> comes out a winner.

The QC is lousy with religious and ethnic stations on the AM band, and those that aren't doing one or the other are doing both.

It does sound like a win win though. I think Air America would be good fit on a daytimer there. It's not really political talk like Limbaugh or Hannity, it's more comedy (considering that three of the hosts are former stand up comedians) and entertainment. I shunned it for a while because I was burned out on political gasbags, then when I started listening, I was pleasantly surprised.
 
Dick Broadcasting (WIVK) donated AM 850 to the University of Tenn. I think because they could right off the donation for more than they could get for it on the market. They bought WNOX AM990 in a bankruptcy sale. The university then sold it to J. Bazell Mull and he simulcast it with his FM WJBZ for a while then sold it to Horne Radio where it is now. I hear it's back on the market again.

> That's an interesting idea, Mike. It seems--and I may likely
> be wrong--was this done in Knoxville in the early 80s when
> WIVK(AM) moved from 850--a daytimer--to the old WNOK
> frequency at 990? It may not have been for the exact purpose
> you've described but I think the Univ of Tenn got the 850
> frequency.
>
 
>
> That's an interesting idea, Mike. It seems--and I may likely
> be wrong--was this done in Knoxville in the early 80s when
> WIVK(AM) moved from 850--a daytimer--to the old WNOK
> frequency at 990? It may not have been for the exact purpose
> you've described but I think the Univ of Tenn got the 850
> frequency.
>

No comparison. WIVK bought 990 out of bankruptcy and spun off 850 to UT in the pre-duopoly days. They eventually bought it back and then spun it off again.

The WGHC move is very common now. The Air America station in Atlanta on 1690 moved up from Adel in deep south Georgia. The 1690 Clear Channel oldies station in Chicago moved from Johnston City, IL some 300 miles to the South. Look around any large metro in the FCC database and you'll find several AM stations moving from small towns. There were about ten applications for the Nashville area alone, although most of them will never happen. If it'll fit and there is still radio service in the town you leave, you can move an AM anywhere you want. But only during specified filing windows and you have to go to auction if there is a conflicting application.

Art Sutton of WGHC fame also filed to move his Seneca and Walhalla, SC AM stations to bigger cities, but pulled those back.

It's a brilliant move if you have the resources to pull it off, because it takes a near-worthless asset and gives it some value to preachers and Espanol speakers.
 
> >
> > That's an interesting idea, Mike. It seems--and I may
> likely
> > be wrong--was this done in Knoxville in the early 80s when
>
> > WIVK(AM) moved from 850--a daytimer--to the old WNOK
> > frequency at 990? It may not have been for the exact
> purpose
> > you've described but I think the Univ of Tenn got the 850
> > frequency.
> >
>
> No comparison. WIVK bought 990 out of bankruptcy and spun
> off 850 to UT in the pre-duopoly days. They eventually
> bought it back and then spun it off again.
>
> The WGHC move is very common now. The Air America station
> in Atlanta on 1690 moved up from Adel in deep south Georgia.
> The 1690 Clear Channel oldies station in Chicago moved from
> Johnston City, IL some 300 miles to the South. Look around
> any large metro in the FCC database and you'll find several
> AM stations moving from small towns. There were about ten
> applications for the Nashville area alone, although most of
> them will never happen. If it'll fit and there is still
> radio service in the town you leave, you can move an AM
> anywhere you want. But only during specified filing windows
> and you have to go to auction if there is a conflicting
> application.
>
> Art Sutton of WGHC fame also filed to move his Seneca and
> Walhalla, SC AM stations to bigger cities, but pulled those
> back.
>
> It's a brilliant move if you have the resources to pull it
> off, because it takes a near-worthless asset and gives it
> some value to preachers and Espanol speakers.
>
Actually radioranch, we did file to move the Walhalla, SC AM to Lithia Springs, GA with 5KW on 890. Just go the CP for it. With WGHC, we filed for a new station in Clayton, GA where it is presently licensed. While we will drop the daytime power from 2500 watts we have now on 1370 to 1000 watts on 1400, we are able to add nighttime which we don't have now.

While WGHC provides about 20 to 25% of our combo gross in Clayton, WWOF in Walhalla did only 5% of the gross for our Walhalla, SC combo. I'm not sure it doesn't cost us more to keep it on than it makes.

At Walhalla, the previous owner moved all the things which has made the AM successful, local news, community info, etc. to the FM when it was placed on the air in 1991. That was the kiss of death for the AM station and it has never been able to recover.

We have three very successful full service programmed AM standalones in our company so we aren't anti AM by any measure.
 
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