Cumulus CHR's are the worst I've ever heard

[atlantaboy]

Q100 just pulled WAY ahead of Power 96.1, so Cumulus is now solidly winning in both Houston and Atlanta

 

[bchristi]

Atlantaboy, that's another very good point. What Jan needs to realize though is that what works in Houston does not work in Atlanta or even Dallas. Look at KHKS, they're rhythmic-leaning, and at the top of their market. Q100 sounds sort of medium-market, while KRBE sounds major-market, no wonder they are beating the competition. KHMX sounds like a station you'd have on in the background as you are going about your day, while KRBE actually draws the listener in. I haven't been able to ever get into any of the CBS CHRs.

I was thinking this just today about most Cumulus CHRs, including KKWD which I have come to loathe. It seems like Jan is trying to go for the "listen at work" demographic, by creating a playlist heavy on recurrents, very little new music, and nothing too risky. He doesn't realize that approach works for Hot ACs and ACs but is out of step with how CHRs usually operate.

KKWD has not added 2 Chains - Leggo yet. I'm sure that if the station was still owned by Citadel, they would have not only added it but it would be in power by now.

CBS CHRs aren't much different from ClearChannel in my opinion. CBS and CC CHRs beat Cumulus by a longshot.

 

[CHRles]

Cumulus CHR/Pop stations are very conservative musically - recurrent-based, late on adding new records, they play a lot of slow-tempo hits, narrow playlist of currents, etc. The worst thing about Cumulus CHRs is the over-reliance on a national playlist

CBS Radio - current-based, overplay their powers, Rhythmic friendly CHR/Pop stations, Pop leaning Rhythmics, CHR-leaning Hot ACs, open to playing Reaction records. Playlists are determinded by local PDs, but affected by corporate.

Ratings-wise CBS Radio does a lot better than Cumulus

While it's easy to see CBS does poorly in NYC in the CHR war, over in L.A. its CHR is much more competitive. Cume-wise Amp Radio is Top 5, and share-wise its Top 5 or 3 in its target demo

In Chicago, CBS owned B-96 is just 2 tenths behind 103.5 Kiss FM, and ranks second in cume (behind Kiss) with close to 2 million in cume

In San Francisco, CBS-owned 99.7 Now is 2 tenths behind CC's Pop-leaning wild 94.9, and is ahead of Wild in cume. In fact, KMVQ ranks second in cume, just 30 K below the top cuming station. Its easily number one in its demo. 92.7 Rev is a non-factor, and KMVQ is mainly in competition with Wild
KMVQ is also the dominant CHR in San Jose.

Cumulus is a big loser in Dallas with I-93 and has little to no impact whatsoever on 106.1 Kiss FM (owned by CC) which ranks first in shares and cume

CBS owned Hot 95.7 ranks 4th in cume in houston, which is below Cumulus-owned 104 KRBE, but at the same time Hot outcumes KRBE in its target demo of 18-34 year olds. KRBE is only more Rhythmic friendly when compared to the typical Cumulus CHR


BTW, in Atlanta Q-100 is now ahead of Power 96.1, but only by 5 tenths of a share, and by 100 K cume. Additionally, Q-100 has made some efforts over the past month to sound hipper, and has a strong morning show.

 

[atlantaboy]

Ratings-wise CBS Radio does a lot better than Cumulus

Completely untrue - Cumulus is winning in 8 markets, including two major markets (against other full-signal CHR/Pop stations) - CBS is winning in none, except San Fran where their competitor is a rimshot signal

Again, I've never heard so many excuses for why KRBE and Q100 are winning in my life - obviously, Hot AC-leaning CHR does well in those markets, period - and if you notice, Z100 is pulling way ahead of KTU in New York, and WTMX is clobbering the rhythmic-leaning CHRs in Chicago

This isn't 2009 - Rhythmic-leaning CHR is outdated, and only wins out in markets with huge Hispanic populations

 

[chrocket87]

Ratings-wise CBS Radio does a lot better than Cumulus

Completely untrue - Cumulus is winning in 8 markets, including two major markets (against other full-signal CHR/Pop stations) - CBS is winning in none, except San Fran where their competitor is a rimshot signal

Again, I've never heard so many excuses for why KRBE and Q100 are winning in my life - obviously, Hot AC-leaning CHR does well in those markets, period - and if you notice, Z100 is pulling way ahead of KTU in New York, and WTMX is clobbering the rhythmic-leaning CHRs in Chicago

This isn't 2009 - Rhythmic-leaning CHR is outdated, and only wins out in markets with huge Hispanic populations

I should have been specific in my original post to note I was referring to PPM markets, but you're right, Cumulus does pretty well in small markets. As of right now, I'd say Atlanta is a toss up since Q won this book by 0.5 over Power, but Power took the previous two books, including the previous book by almost a full share. At this moment, I'd say the two stations are in a dead heat and Atlanta will be one of the toughest CHR dogfights (look at Tampa if you want to take a look at what I mean here) to watch for.
It does prove, as you've gotten at, that CC simply putting a CHR in Atlanta won't cause Q to roll over and die. CC will have to put in some work if they want to make life miserable for Q.

 

[bchristi]

I disagree that rhythmic-leaning CHR is outdated. Cumulus doesn't like anything that may not test well with the "listen at work" demographic or small market listeners. They also have no problem playing older mid-late 2000s rhythmic tracks, they just don't add the newer stuff.

Cumulus' formula has always been a winning formula in small markets. People from larger cities used to laugh at small-town CHRs for being outdated. Such stations are intentionally programmed that way because that's what works in small towns. Now Cumulus is bringing that format to large markets. There is a place for it, but they SHOULD NOT be allowed to bill themselves as CHR unless their focus is current music.

 

[atlantaboy]

People from larger cities used to laugh at small-town CHRs for being outdated. Such stations are intentionally programmed that way because that's what works in small towns.

That's cause most small towns don't have a lot of stations, so you've got one station covering the 18-44 female audience, as well as all ends of the musical spectrum - and small town CHRs can go either way - some of the most progressive CHRs in the country are rock-leaning small town stations, and many times large stations wait for small stations to break new music first

Q100 and KRBE definitely still focus on new music - they add late, and hold onto songs longer, so the music isn't cutting-edge, but both stations are still majority current - and the fact that they're winning in Atlanta and Houston shows that not everyone in the country wants to constantly hear tracks that are brand new - some people would rather hear songs they know and like, are familiar with, and can sing along to

By the very fact that we're posting on radio boards, most of us obviously are excited by brand new cutting-edge music, since music is our hobby - but you can't assume that radio listeners in every market think like that

 

[bchristi]

People from larger cities used to laugh at small-town CHRs for being outdated. Such stations are intentionally programmed that way because that's what works in small towns.

That's cause most small towns don't have a lot of stations, so you've got one station covering the 18-44 female audience, as well as all ends of the musical spectrum - and small town CHRs can go either way - some of the most progressive CHRs in the country are rock-leaning small town stations, and many times large stations wait for small stations to break new music first

I think that's exactly what Jan Jeffries is trying to do with his CHRs. He wants to appeal to the entire 18-44 female audience and all ends of the musical spectrum without taking many risks on the rock or rhythmic ends. He wants his stations to be "listen at work" stations or background music for events. His format actually works well for that. Play out the most popular songs of the past five years that everybody knows. Don't add new music until its at the top of the chart or has tested well on CC or CBS CHR stations. There was a station in the late 1960s in NYC that took that approach. No new music whatsoever unless it was from the Beatles, Stones, etc, and stick to the most popular songs of the past half decade or so. It may be a winning formula, but its such a departure from what CHR has been the past 20-30 years its hard to get used to.

 

[atlantaboy]

I disagree that rhythmic-leaning CHR is outdated.

The only places I see rhythmic-leaning CHR doing extremely well are (sorry to be blunt) in states that border Mexico

 

[atlantaboy]

People from larger cities used to laugh at small-town CHRs for being outdated. Such stations are intentionally programmed that way because that's what works in small towns.

That's cause most small towns don't have a lot of stations, so you've got one station covering the 18-44 female audience, as well as all ends of the musical spectrum - and small town CHRs can go either way - some of the most progressive CHRs in the country are rock-leaning small town stations, and many times large stations wait for small stations to break new music first

I think that's exactly what Jan Jeffries is trying to do with his CHRs. He wants to appeal to the entire 18-44 female audience and all ends of the musical spectrum without taking many risks on the rock or rhythmic ends. He wants his stations to be "listen at work" stations or background music for events. His format actually works well for that. Play out the most popular songs of the past five years that everybody knows.

I wonder if that's partially because of PPM (i. e. being "background music" now earns you ratings, whereas it didn't so much ten years ago)

Also, just to clarify Q100 and KRBE rarely play songs over 2 years old - maybe once an hour during the daytime - they're not in the same category as the small-town Cumulus stations, though

I agree, though, that you've got his formula and reasons behind it spot-on

 

[bobdavcav]

Atlantaboy, are you sure about your analysis of rhythmic-leaning CHR? Do you have a Seattle book from recently? Last I heard rhythmic-leaning KQMV had finally pulled ahead of mainstream KBKS though I'm starting to doubt whether KQMV leans rhythmic anymore.

 

[chrocket87]

KQMV has a slight rhythmic lean. That is, they play about five rhythmic songs that wouldn't be played on your average CHR station (at least yet), but yes, they have topped KBKS 6+.

 

[atlantaboy]

Atlantaboy, are you sure about your analysis of rhythmic-leaning CHR? Do you have a Seattle book from recently? Last I heard rhythmic-leaning KQMV had finally pulled ahead of mainstream KBKS though I'm starting to doubt whether KQMV leans rhythmic anymore.

KQMV is spinning "Ho Hey" 117x per week, so I'm not sure I'd classify it as "Rhythmic-leaning" CHR - but you're right, it's slightly ahead of, and more rhythmic than, KBKS

Seattle does have a significantly large (13%) Asian population (sorry to stereotype, but looking for patterns where Rhythmic-leaners do well)

 

[RollTide]

(sorry to stereotype, but looking for patterns where Rhythmic-leaners do well)

Hey, what's why we have demographic break down right? Different races and populations like different things. Recognizing those patterns and adjusting your station to them to get the greatest benefit is just how you do this business. It's no different than saying urban formatted stations will do very well in markets with high black population, or country will be a good bet for southern markets with very high white populations for example. It's just how it works. No apologies needed here

 

[bchristi]

I just logged KKWD's playlist for the past hour and a half. Out of 20 songs, only 7 are from the past six months. 9 of the songs were over 2 years old.

The station is almost unbearable to listen to. Any chance Cumulus could flip it to urban? It's doing so horrible in the ratings its bound for a flip to something. Competitor KJ 103, which is current based, most recently got a 7.2 compared to KKWD's 2.7. Obviously people in OKC don't want to tune in to hear the most overplayed songs of 2009 and 2010 now that KJ has finally stopped playing them.

Cumulus' urban stations generally sound better than their CHRs and OKC needs an urban station with decent coverage. Anything would be better than the current format in my opinion.

 

[CHRles]

CBS Radio continues to perform very well with their list of CHRs in their target demos
Also, kudos to Cleveland's Q-104, which is billed as a Hot A/C, but is more of an adult friendly CHR (owned by CBS). "Thrift Shop", for example, is played quite a bit on this station.

 

[chrocket87]

Q104 was playing Gangnam Style before most CHRs got to it! IIRC, they even beat CC-owned WAKS to it.

 

[carolinaradio]

WWWQ has not pulled "way ahead" of WWPW, it's ahead by just half a point, so I am sure Clear Channel is satisfied with the performance...
If CC would kill off Wild, it might help Power a little bit.

Q100 is still playing Nelly Furtado, old Britney Spears/Timbaland/Rihanna/Jason DeRulo, and weird stuff like "If I Had You" by Adam Lambert that wasn't even a big CHR hit. This is just in the past few hours. I don't know how anybody could stand to listen to a Cumulus CHR or want them to do well. They are just too slow/safe with some adds, regardless of the genre (unless it's the Matchbox Twenty type which they couldn't wait to add). A "listen at work" CHR station sounds like a lot of fun... :

 

[bchristi]

WWWQ has not pulled "way ahead" of WWPW, it's ahead by just half a point, so I am sure Clear Channel is satisfied with the performance...
If CC would kill off Wild, it might help Power a little bit.

Q100 is still playing Nelly Furtado, old Britney Spears/Timbaland/Rihanna/Jason DeRulo, and weird stuff like "If I Had You" by Adam Lambert that wasn't even a big CHR hit. This is just in the past few hours. I don't know how anybody could stand to listen to a Cumulus CHR or want them to do well. They are just too slow/safe with some adds, regardless of the genre (unless it's the Matchbox Twenty type which they couldn't wait to add). A "listen at work" CHR station sounds like a lot of fun... :

Completely agree. KKWD is still playing "I Like It" by Enrique Iglsias frequently. It's unbearable to listen to because their entire playlist is focused on overplayed songs of the past 3-5 years that are not yet old enough to become enjoyable to listen to again. Jan Jeffries should listen to Pop2K on SiriusXM for an example of how a gold-based CHR should be done.

The question is, does Jeffries even care that his format doesn't work in every market and in many is completely killing the stations? He seems so hard headed and dedicated to his formula they could probably be the worst performing stations in their markets and he still wouldn't tweak them.

 

[atlantaboy]

CBS Radio continues to perform very well with their list of CHRs in their target demos

And yet they somehow manage to come in near or dead last in the overall ratings : (I. E. I don't believe that "target demos" BS for a second)