Cumulus CHR's are the worst I've ever heard

[chrocket87]

Cumulus handles rhythmic horribly. They neglect recent stuff yet they keep playing stuff from several years ago that hasn't aged well. As for pop/rock, Cumulus destroyed one of the best rock-leaning CHRs in the country, Alice 107.7.

My biggest problem with Cumulus is that they neglect just about anything that's not by an established artist or already top 15- rhythmic or rock.
As of yesterday, neither KLIF, KRBE, or WWWQ had added "Little Talks" or "I Will Wait" and both are top 20 hits! My small market CC CHR has been playing "I Will Wait" regularly for weeks now and has played "Little Talks" a few times over the past few weeks.
I fully agree with atlantaboy on CBS, minus WDZH, that they do their best to avoid rock and I find that to be a problem since CHR should play everything relevant, but at least they play stuff that's not in the top 20 yet.

I remember the days when my small market CC and Cumulus stations would play tracks outside of the Top 40 (just ten years ago)- now I give credit to CC just because they play stuff that hasn't hit top 20 yet.

 

[bchristi]

Cumulus handles rhythmic horribly. They neglect recent stuff yet they keep playing stuff from several years ago that hasn't aged well. As for pop/rock, Cumulus destroyed one of the best rock-leaning CHRs in the country, Alice 107.7.

My biggest problem with Cumulus is that they neglect just about anything that's not by an established artist or already top 15- rhythmic or rock.
As of yesterday, neither KLIF, KRBE, or WWWQ had added "Little Talks" or "I Will Wait" and both are top 20 hits! My small market CC CHR has been playing "I Will Wait" regularly for weeks now and has played "Little Talks" a few times over the past few weeks.
I fully agree with atlantaboy on CBS, minus WDZH, that they do their best to avoid rock and I find that to be a problem since CHR should play everything relevant, but at least they play stuff that's not in the top 20 yet.

I remember the days when my small market CC and Cumulus stations would play tracks outside of the Top 40 (just ten years ago)- now I give credit to CC just because they play stuff that hasn't hit top 20 yet.

Exactly. CHR is supposed to be top 40, not top 15.

Come to think of it, Cumulus didn't seem too bad back in the early 2000s. The Cumulus station where I lived at the time was pretty current and had a rhythmic lean at night. Maybe that was before Jan Jeffries started requiring all the stations to adhere to a standard playlist? It also pitched its music up, which no Cumulus CHR does today.

 

[carolinaradio]

Cumulus handles rhythmic horribly. They neglect recent stuff yet they keep playing stuff from several years ago that hasn't aged well. As for pop/rock, Cumulus destroyed one of the best rock-leaning CHRs in the country, Alice 107.7.

My biggest problem with Cumulus is that they neglect just about anything that's not by an established artist or already top 15- rhythmic or rock.

EXACTLY! Cumulus CHR stations are not a case of rock vs. rhythmic....I don't know about all of them, but most of the golds they play on the once great 95SX are rhythmic, recently played include "Crazy In Love" - who still plays that, anywhere (other than maybe Urban stations)? Most rhythmic tracks just don't age well. There are plenty of good rock or pop/rock recurrents that have aged much better (such as "How To Save a Life", "Chasing Cars", "Breakeven", "Viva La Vida", etc) that seem like they would fit better for a more adult-friendly format. I keep mentioning them, I know, but Channel 96.1 in Charlotte is a perfect example of what an adult friendly CHR should be, they play the full spectrum of CHR music and don't ignore new music, either.

Cumulus is a case of a Hot AC/gold-friendly CHR model vs. a current based one, not rock music vs. rhythmic music. I honestly don't see they give rock or pop/rock music any more of a fair shake than any company other than CBS (outside of WNKS and WDZH).

I find it extremely difficult that these golds, especially these rhythmic ones that Jan is pulling out, still test well. How many other formats or CHR's still play a lot of them? I highly doubt that IF they did test well, they do in every one of these markets. I will agree that he could have a personal influence in the music Cumulus plays on their CHR's.

 

[atlantaboy]

Come to think of it, Cumulus didn't seem too bad back in the early 2000s. The Cumulus station where I lived at the time was pretty current and had a rhythmic lean at night.

See...no offense to the poster, but this is what frustrates me about this thread - poster after poster just assuming that everyone in America wants to hear rhythmic-leaning songs, and it's completely untrue - in fact, the opposite is true, as a majority of rhythmic-leaning pop stations are losing to the more mainstream ones, or even to pop-leaning Hot ACs

It IS a case of rock vs. rhythmic - if Cumulus's stations were packed with the Top 20 biggest dance-leaning currents, I can guarantee we wouldn't be having this discussion, or at least it wouldn't be 29 pages long - in fact, people would probably been calling them innovative

 

[atlantaboy]

I find it extremely difficult that these golds, especially these rhythmic ones that Jan is pulling out, still test well.

The stations you're talking about, though, are in medium-small markets in the South - most of the listener base is conservative, and in many of those markets, such as Charleston, the station is trying to appeal to working class listeners - and I'm almost positive that 95SX was struggling somewhat under Citadel, at least for a number of years

I'm obviously not a fan of older Rhythmic tracks, but in a lot of these markets I think it makes sense - and Cumulus isn't using them in large markets, or more liberal markets like Providence

The Link/Charlotte BTW is playing a decent amount of rhythmic gold tracks, and their ratings are the best they've ever been - much higher than either of the pop stations, so I don't think this approach is completely out of left field

 

[bchristi]

Come to think of it, Cumulus didn't seem too bad back in the early 2000s. The Cumulus station where I lived at the time was pretty current and had a rhythmic lean at night.

See...no offense to the poster, but this is what frustrates me about this thread - poster after poster just assuming that everyone in America wants to hear rhythmic-leaning songs, and it's completely untrue - in fact, the opposite is true, as a majority of rhythmic-leaning pop stations are losing to the more mainstream ones, or even to pop-leaning Hot ACs

It IS a case of rock vs. rhythmic - if Cumulus's stations were packed with the Top 20 biggest dance-leaning currents, I can guarantee we wouldn't be having this discussion, or at least it wouldn't be 29 pages long - in fact, people would probably been calling them innovative

The early 2000s was when rhythmic was new and fresh. Rhythmic leaning CHRs and full-on CHR/Rhythmics were winning in their markets back in those days. Rhythmic today isn't what it was in 2002 and 2003.

And I disagree that the problem is rock vs rhythmic. I could care less if they were playing the top 20 dance-leaning currents if they were still only playing 2 currents per hour and playing stuff from 2007 like its new. In fact, that's what KKWD, the Cumulus CHR in my market does.

The discussion has gone on so long because Cumulus is the only company that insists on CHR being gold-based rather than current-based, and will not budge on that formula even when its destroying what were once great stations under Citadel.

Being a rock person, how can you defend what Cumulus has done with KLAL in Little Rock?

 

[chrocket87]

Being a rock person, how can you defend what Cumulus has done with KLAL in Little Rock?

Add WJIM/Lansing and WIOG/Saginaw to that list.
I remember visiting a friend at Michigan State in 2009 and they (WJIM) were playing "Uprising" by Muse and "Sex On Fire" by Kings of Leon and neither of those two songs became top 40 hits. Cumulus would never do that anymore.
WIOG had always been a format leader for rock songs. Heck, they even played the band Sugarcult before most Alternative stations would. Never again will Cumulus allow that "mistake" to happen.

I don't think this discussion has to do with rhythmic vs. rock, it has to do with the fact that Cumulus won't play rhythmic OR rock unless they meet Jan's criteria.

 

[RollTide]

Atlantaboy, I appreciate your thoughts and opinions and your willingness to share them in this discussion. After all, that's what this board is all about. But to be fair, half of this thread is full of your posts as well, therefore it has continued because of your thoughts as well as everyone elses. Blaming the length of this discussion on everyone else isn't right.

For me, the discussion has never been about rhythmic vs. Rock. It has been about gold based vs. Current based. I for one do not prefer rhythmic stations or rhythmic leaning CHRs because a lot of rap these days sucks to me. I prefer mainstream CHR, as I have said before. I don't want a CHR that only plays 4 current songs an hour and plays blocks of 80s music with stale imagining and jocks like my local Cumulus CHR WZYP. I want a current based CHR that plays all of todays top 40 tracks and doesn't wait till they reach top 15 to add them or ignore them completely because of personal preference or whatever the reason. I don't want to hear an hour full of recurrents ten years old, some of which weren't hits to begin with. I've been pretty pleased with the new start up CHR Clear Channel has brought here. Yes its on a translator and its voice tracked most of the day, but musically, its great. They play all of the current top 40 tracks with recurrents and golds that were big hits that fit the format and don't go back too far. They don't lean either way, rhythmic or rock. They stay strait up mainstream. They play everything that was a hit on CHR. I've heard gold tracks from Paramore and evanescence to destiny's child, nsync, Cascada & Puff Daddy. Recurrents from Flo Rida to The Script, katy perry, & the fray. It's a treat to hear the older tracks, not a chore to hear the same ones every day. They are pretty quick to add new music. They are playing the new Demi Lovato and were quick to play krewella and Pink for example. For a small station on a translator its pretty awesome. My biggest complaint is the heavy rotations are a little too tight. Still, I'll take it any day over what Cumulus is offering here. I invite anyone on here to give it a listen & share your thoughts on it. 1065kissfm.com. I hope it does well enough here that CC moves it to a bigger stick.

 

[carolinaradio]

Atlantaboy, I appreciate your thoughts and opinions and your willingness to share them in this discussion. After all, that's what this board is all about. But to be fair, half of this thread is full of your posts as well, therefore it has continued because of your thoughts as well as everyone elses. Blaming the length of this discussion on everyone else isn't right.

For me, the discussion has never been about rhythmic vs. Rock. It has been about gold based vs. Current based. I for one do not prefer rhythmic stations or rhythmic leaning CHRs because a lot of rap these days sucks to me. I prefer mainstream CHR, as I have said before. I don't want a CHR that only plays 4 current songs an hour and plays blocks of 80s music with stale imagining and jocks like my local Cumulus CHR WZYP. I want a current based CHR that plays all of todays top 40 tracks and doesn't wait till they reach top 15 to add them or ignore them completely because of personal preference or whatever the reason. I don't want to hear an hour full of recurrents ten years old, some of which weren't hits to begin with. I've been pretty pleased with the new start up CHR Clear Channel has brought here. Yes its on a translator and its voice tracked most of the day, but musically, its great. They play all of the current top 40 tracks with recurrents and golds that were big hits that fit the format and don't go back too far. They don't lean either way, rhythmic or rock. They stay strait up mainstream. They play everything that was a hit on CHR. I've heard gold tracks from Paramore and evanescence to destiny's child, nsync, Cascada & Puff Daddy. Recurrents from Flo Rida to The Script, katy perry, & the fray. It's a treat to hear the older tracks, not a chore to hear the same ones every day. They are pretty quick to add new music. They are playing the new Demi Lovato and were quick to play krewella and Pink for example. For a small station on a translator its pretty awesome. My biggest complaint is the heavy rotations are a little too tight. Still, I'll take it any day over what Cumulus is offering here. I invite anyone on here to give it a listen & share your thoughts on it. 1065kissfm.com. I hope it does well enough here that CC moves it to a bigger stick.

I have nothing else to add other than I share your thoughts and opinion 100%.

 

[bchristi]

Atlanta boy, believe me, I would much rather Cumulus play rock tracks from 10 years ago than the rhythmic ones they insist on running into the ground. Maybe throw in some alternative rock from the mid 2000s like Muse. Rock ages much better than rhythmic does and still sounds fine even mixed with today's currents. Songs like "Crazy in Love", "The Way I Are", "Promiscuous Girl", "Whatever You Like", "Replay", "Down", etc do not belong on CHR in 2013 except as an occasional throwback. They sure shouldn't be in regular rotation like Jan insists they are. ClearChannel and CBS aren't playing them. Cumulus is.

Your accusation that anybody who doesn't think Cumulus CHRs are the best sounding only likes rhythmic is completely ridiculous. It's Cumulus that keeps playing the worst rhythmic recurrents into the ground while completely ignoring today's rhythmic and even some of today's rock.

 

[in3media_be1]

Some posts from this thread have been moved to Take It Outside

http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=230982.msg2078405#msg2078405

 

[carolinaradio]

^ Yeah, you're exactly right bchristi....just because I, like most others, dislike Cumulus CHR's doesn't mean I listen to only rhythmic music. I don't know where that consensus came from but it's ridiculous. Why would I constantly praise Channel 96.1 in Charlotte on here and mention how often I listen to them vs. B-93.7 or Kiss 95.1? 96.1 is by no stretch a rhythmic leaning CHR. While it may be true there are a lot of rhythmic songs on the chart right now that I like, there are plenty of non-rhythmic tracks that have been hits on the format over the past few years I have enjoyed and several currently ("Carry On", "Try", "Catch My Breath", "It's Time", and maybe OMOM but I got tired of it on Alt). If Cumulus played the top 20 dance tracks, I wouldn't be listening.

It is absolutely a debate of gold vs. current. It can be argued on here all day long, but the only way of knowing if Jan's strategy works or not in a lot of these markets like Charleston is if a viable, mainstream sounding CHR comes on the air and is willing to pony up the resources to compete with them. Just to note, 95SX in Charleston has been somewhat like B-93.7 Greenville for quite a while - switching between a Hot AC sound, Rhythmic sound, etc. That market had a Rhythmic CHR until several years ago but it never did very well, and it also has a Hot AC now. Perhaps they are staying away from the older rock or pop/rock tracks and opting for rhythmic because of the Hot AC.

 

[bchristi]

Regardless of how long this discussion goes on, I doubt there is any hope of Jan ever changing his formula or allowing local stations to have a say in their playlist. He had countless successful Citadel stations already doing well that he switched to his own playlist and fired the local PDs and some of the on-air personalities. Cumulus is all about cheap and he sees radio stations as nothing more than a cash generator. Jan doesn't care if people like his stations or even if they get good ratings as long as they are making a profit. For the sake of CHR as a whole, the FCC should require any station reporting as CHR to be current-based, reclassifying Cumulus stations as Hot AC or Rhythmic Hot AC by default unless they change their playlist.

 

[chrocket87]

Heres where i disagree with you. The FCC does not/should not get involved in formats.If the format sucks, let the competition change their ways, whether it be a competitor killing it's ratings or watching the audience leave to other avenues. Don't let the government embark on the slippery slope of telling radio stations how to run themselves.

 

[RollTide]

Heres where i disagree with you. The FCC does not/should not get involved in formats.If the format sucks, let the competition change their ways, whether it be a competitor killing it's ratings or watching the audience leave to other avenues. Don't let the government embark on the slippery slope of telling radio stations how to run themselves.

I completely agree with you there. The FCC doesn't have anything to do with stations formats or how they report & they never should.

 

[bchristi]

Heres where i disagree with you. The FCC does not/should not get involved in formats.If the format sucks, let the competition change their ways, whether it be a competitor killing it's ratings or watching the audience leave to other avenues. Don't let the government embark on the slippery slope of telling radio stations how to run themselves.

I can definitely understand wanting to keep government out of radio as much as possible, but what is wrong with having to meet a specific standard in order to be able to report as a particular format? In this case, if Jan still insisted on keeping his same playlist, he could. The government isn't telling him how he must run his stations. He would just have to report as Hot AC or Rhythmic Hot AC rather than CHR. I am not completely sold on that idea, I am just wondering why its such a bad one.

I can definitely see the other side of the coin as well. It's just a matter of time before this all catches up with Cumulus. Going cheap has its consequences, especially in former Citadel markets where higher standards are expected. Many of the former Citadel stations are riding on heritage, but that may not last forever.

 

[carolinaradio]

I would look at companies like Billboard, Mediabase, etc. instead of the FCC/government.

Obviously the stations are CHR-enough or they would get moved to another panel.

 

[bobdavcav]

I would not agree, KKWD does not have any Hot AC in it at all, or at least no more than other CHR stations. They play more recurrents/gold than I would like to see on a CHR, but overall they aren't too bad. Have you checked out KWYL/Rino? I was listening for about half an hour today and only heard one song that was over a year old. I do think you should actually give KKWD a call and complain directly to them about it rather than making endless complaints about it on these boards. You seem to think that Jan has it locked down to the point that no local people have any control over the playlist when that does not appear to be true at all. Are Is Kiss in Huntsville playing anything that WGEX/Albany or KIXZ/Spokane isn't or are their playlists all the same?

 

[CHRles]

A few quick notes
KKWD is a Rhythmic CHR. Oklahoma City has always been lucky to have an incredible CHR/Pop station in the form of KJ 103. It's a truly great Top 40 station that's rarely talked about on these boards, but has always been great at playing all the hits. Both KJ 103 OKC and nearby 106.9 K-Hits Tulsa are two of my favorite CHRs.

Back to KKWD, The Hot A/C element for Wild stems directly from the fact that it's Recurrent-leaning at times

Wild 102.9 Reno is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to Cumulus-owned CHRs. I've praised it several times for being unique, along with 98.9 Magic FM Colorado Springs (also owned by Cumulus). I also like Q-98 Fayetteville, which is a Hot AC station owned by Cumulus, but is at times more musically adventurous than some of Cumulus CHR/Pop stations.

Lastly, there are a few CHRs owned by Clear Channel that run Premium Choice most of the day, but are a tiny fraction of CC-owned CHRs. On such a small and limited signal I wouldnt expect CC or any company to shell out too much money on 106.5 Kiss FM.

 

[bchristi]

A few quick notes
KKWD is a Rhythmic CHR. Oklahoma City has always been lucky to have an incredible CHR/Pop station in the form of KJ 103. It's a truly great Top 40 station that's rarely talked about on these boards, but has always been great at playing all the hits. Both KJ 103 OKC and nearby 106.9 K-Hits Tulsa are two of my favorite CHRs.

I agree with you KJ 103 is a great station. That's why they are #1 in the market right now.

As for KKWD, I would call them 'Rhythmic Hot AC' if you would. KKWD uses the exact same Jan Jeffries formula used on the CHR/Pop stations but doesn't play the rock. As we all have discussed, rhythmic music doesn't age as well as rock. So what we have is a station primarily playing rhythmic songs from the 2007-2010 time frame with horrible imaging and using the slogan 'All The Hits', which sounds terrible. They many times completely ignore new music.

If anybody remembers what KKWD was under Citadel, I think its now safe to say its one of the most sabotaged stations by Cumulus.