Cumulus CHR's are the worst I've ever heard

[jason1589]

Cumulus literally DESTROYED all Citadel CHRs. Only KKMG in Colorado resists a bit. How is that station able to do that?

 

[CHRles]

I don't know how KKMG manages to avoid the typical Cumulus sound.

I just know that 95 SX definitely wasn't conservative sounding under Citadel. Besides, a lot of Southern markets are not conservative musically, especially not when it comes to CHRs

There's a lot of great CHRs in the South that aren't musically conservative: 103.7 The Q Birmingham, Kiss 95.1 Charlotte, B-93.7 Greenville, Hits 96 Chattanooga, Electric 94.9 Tri Cities, K-92 Roanoke, 106.1 Kiss FM Dallas, Mix 96.1 San Antonio, B-97 New Orleans, 107.1 The Monkey Gulfport, 97.3 Kiss FM Savannah, 99.7 DJX Lousville, Hot 100.5 Norfolk, and the list goes on.

 

[carolinaradio]

95SX ALWAYS was on top of new stuff, whether they had a Hot-AC or Rhythmic lean - and when they had a rhythmic lean, they never played dated gold rhythmic titles...

I would add 104.7 WNOK in Columbia, SC and Mix 97.7 in Myrtle Beach to your list as well, CHRles.

 

[RollTide]

Are Is Kiss in Huntsville playing anything that WGEX/Albany or KIXZ/Spokane isn't or are their playlists all the same?

Their playlists look similar, but not completely identical. Spin counts aren't the same. I don't see anything that Kiss is playing that WGEX and KIXZ isn't playing, but I do see a couple songs that Kiss isn't playing. For example KIXZ is playing Icona Pop I love it and 22 by Taylor Swift. Kiss isn't playing those. Not yet anyway.

Lastly, there are a few CHRs owned by Clear Channel that run Premium Choice most of the day, but are a tiny fraction of CC-owned CHRs. On such a small and limited signal I wouldnt expect CC or any company to shell out too much money on 106.5 Kiss FM.

I'm not really familiar with Premium Choice. I've never listened to a station that carries it that I know of so I'm not sure if Huntsville's Kiss is or not. Could be though, who knows. If you know of a station that does could you give me an example and I'll check it out? I know there won't be much money sunk into this station as long as its on a translator/small signal. That's why I wasn't surprised to hear mostly voice tracking. They'll run it cheap. It's ok with me though. As long as we've got something. I'll take it any day over nothing.

Cumulus literally DESTROYED all Citadel CHRs. Only KKMG in Colorado resists a bit. How is that station able to do that?

Check out 99.5 The Vibe in Birmingham. Sounds nothing like the typical Cumulus sound either. Totally current based mainstream CHR. Sounds great musically. If Cumulus can do it there, why not elsewhere?

 

[atlantaboy]

Check out 99.5 The Vibe in Birmingham. Sounds nothing like the typical Cumulus sound either. Totally current based mainstream CHR. Sounds great musically. If Cumulus can do it there, why not elsewhere?

KLIF/Dallas is definitely current-based (powers at 120x per week, Thrift Shop 114x a week) - so are KRBE, KCHZ/Kansas City, KHOP/Modesto, WPRO/Providence, and a bunch of others

But again, if you take all the Cumulus CHRs are separate them into current-based vs. recurrent-based, there's no pattern showing that the more current-based stations are doing better - and there are markets like Atlanta, Alberquerque, and Youngstown where the Hot AC-lean has put them on top, beating out more current-based competitors

 

[bchristi]

Check out 99.5 The Vibe in Birmingham. Sounds nothing like the typical Cumulus sound either. Totally current based mainstream CHR. Sounds great musically. If Cumulus can do it there, why not elsewhere?

KLIF/Dallas is definitely current-based (powers at 120x per week, Thrift Shop 114x a week) - so are KRBE, KCHZ/Kansas City, KHOP/Modesto, WPRO/Providence, and a bunch of others

But again, if you take all the Cumulus CHRs are separate them into current-based vs. recurrent-based, there's no pattern showing that the more current-based stations are doing better - and there are markets like Atlanta, Alberquerque, and Youngstown where the Hot AC-lean has put them on top, beating out more current-based competitors

So why is Jan so stubborn as to force the Hot AC lean in markets where its not working?

KKWD/Oklahoma City has tanked hard since they switched to the national gold-based playlist.  If Cumulus is capable of a current-based playlist, why don't they use it more often?

 

[atlantaboy]

Check out 99.5 The Vibe in Birmingham. Sounds nothing like the typical Cumulus sound either. Totally current based mainstream CHR. Sounds great musically. If Cumulus can do it there, why not elsewhere?

KLIF/Dallas is definitely current-based (powers at 120x per week, Thrift Shop 114x a week) - so are KRBE, KCHZ/Kansas City, KHOP/Modesto, WPRO/Providence, and a bunch of others

But again, if you take all the Cumulus CHRs are separate them into current-based vs. recurrent-based, there's no pattern showing that the more current-based stations are doing better - and there are markets like Atlanta, Alberquerque, and Youngstown where the Hot AC-lean has put them on top, beating out more current-based competitors

So why is Jan so stubborn as to force the Hot AC lean in markets where its not working?

KKWD/Oklahoma City has tanked hard since they switched to the national gold-based playlist. If Cumulus is capable of a current-based playlist, why don't they use it more often?

KKWD is a Rhythmic, with a pretty standard Rhythmic playlist - I don't really understand why we're discussing it - or, at least, I'm not familiar enough with Rhythmic programming to comment

In response to the second question, there are current-based Cumulus CHRs that are doing terribly, and Hot AC-based Cumulus CHRs that are at the top of the market - my guess is that Hot AC-leaning stations bill well, or that it's cheaper for Cumulus to follow a template in smaller markets, but I'm not sure

But this assumption that current-based CHRs do better than HAC-leaning CHRs is just plain false - scan the ratings on AllAccess, and you'll see yourself...

 

[bobdavcav]

Atlantaboy, there are current and gold-based rhythmics just like there are mainstream stations. Examples include KBWX, KFAT, and WHTP. I personally don't think KKWD is quite as bad as Bcristi keeps saying it is. On the other hand, she has brought up KKBQ before on these boards and I would have to say that the KKWD playlist would be an improvement for that station. They played lots of dated hip-hop with a few random currents thrown in. As for mainstream CHRs, WWKL actually reminds me of another station that evolved from rhythmic a couple years ago, and that is KFFM/Yakima, WA. KVYB has a nice start towards being a good rhythmic, although their golds I think go back a little too far. If I were programming that station I would keep the currents as they are and then replace some of the early 2000s stuff they play with stuff from the late 2000s.

 

[atlantaboy]

^Okay, just looked it up and KKWD went from current-based Rhythmic under Citadel to gold-based Rhythmic under Cumulus - so I know what you guys are talking about

Apparently, according to an OK City thread, KKWD had a ratings problem, and as a result received a signal downgrade to 104.9, all when it was still under Citadel - but again, this is all secondhand

http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=219566.0

As bchristi correctly points out, KKWD was going down prior to sell to Cumulus. That's part of the reason it got downgraded to 104.9 in the first place.

 

[bchristi]

Atlantaboy, there are current and gold-based rhythmics just like there are mainstream stations. Examples include KBWX, KFAT, and WHTP. I personally don't think KKWD is quite as bad as Bcristi keeps saying it is. On the other hand, she has brought up KKBQ before on these boards and I would have to say that the KKWD playlist would be an improvement for that station. They played lots of dated hip-hop with a few random currents thrown in. As for mainstream CHRs, WWKL actually reminds me of another station that evolved from rhythmic a couple years ago, and that is KFFM/Yakima, WA. KVYB has a nice start towards being a good rhythmic, although their golds I think go back a little too far. If I were programming that station I would keep the currents as they are and then replace some of the early 2000s stuff they play with stuff from the late 2000s.

KBBQ and KKWD actually have very similar playlists. KKWD is slightly more current but the bread and butter of both stations is dated hip-hop and dance tracks with a few random currents thrown in. Both stations frequently go back as far as the early 2000s but KBBQ does it a little more I think. Both stations use the 'All The Hits' slogan. Rhythmic doesn't age as well so in my opinion, both stations sound just as horrible.

We are now in 2013. I can't think of very many circumstances in which a Top 40 station should go back farther than 2008 and even that should be rare enough that its a treat to hear those songs rather than a chore.

 

[bchristi]

^Okay, just looked it up and KKWD went from current-based Rhythmic under Citadel to gold-based Rhythmic under Cumulus - so I know what you guys are talking about

Apparently, according to an OK City thread, KKWD had a ratings problem, and as a result received a signal downgrade to 104.9, all when it was still under Citadel - but again, this is all secondhand

http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=219566.0

As bchristi correctly points out, KKWD was going down prior to sell to Cumulus. That's part of the reason it got downgraded to 104.9 in the first place.

The signal downgrade happened in 2006 because per the FCC Citadel owned too many stations in the OKC market and had to divest of two of them. Citadel chose to upgrade the 97.9 signal to 98.1 and move its top-billing WWLS The Sports Animal to that frequency, move KKWD to 104.9 and sell the 104.9 frequency. The station was doing very well when still on the 97.9 frequency and didn't see its ratings fall substantially until its move to 104.9. In 2008, Citadel was allowed to purchase back the station and they re-absorbed it into their portfolio. The station has had falling ratings ever since its move to 104.9, but it never was as bad as it has been since Cumulus switched the format to gold-based.

 

[atlantaboy]

^Okay, just looked it up and KKWD went from current-based Rhythmic under Citadel to gold-based Rhythmic under Cumulus - so I know what you guys are talking about

Apparently, according to an OK City thread, KKWD had a ratings problem, and as a result received a signal downgrade to 104.9, all when it was still under Citadel - but again, this is all secondhand

http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=219566.0

As bchristi correctly points out, KKWD was going down prior to sell to Cumulus. That's part of the reason it got downgraded to 104.9 in the first place.

The signal downgrade happened in 2006 because per the FCC Citadel owned too many stations in the OKC market and had to divest of two of them. Citadel chose to upgrade the 97.9 signal to 98.1 and move its top-billing WWLS The Sports I guessAnimal to that frequency, move KKWD to 104.9 and sell the 104.9 frequency. The station was doing very well when still on the 97.9 frequency and didn't see its ratings fall substantially until its move to 104.9. In 2008, Citadel was allowed to purchase back the station and they re-absorbed it into their portfolio. The station has had falling ratings ever since its move to 104.9, but it never was as bad as it has been since Cumulus switched the format to gold-based.

That sounds pretty crazy that they did that, especially since they have a current-leaning Rhythmic in California

But if ratings were falling prior to the takeover, I guess there's no proof either way - for example, ratings could've continued to drop even more steeply if the current-based playlist had stayed, and Cumulus may have leveled it out - I think it's hard to prove what would've happened if the Citadel playlist had remained

 

[carolinaradio]

FWIW, in the most recent PPM, WWWQ and WWPW remained a half a point apart (each going down one tenth, IIRC) at 4.5 and 4.0, respectively. Q has a higher cume.
Hot AC continues to do well in Atlanta, with Star 94 beating both.

I do not know why CC keeps Wild around. All I can think of is for sales purposes. Kill it and it should be enough to put Power ahead of Q with Power's current approach. ???

 

[atlantaboy]

Here's an interesting twist...

Cumulus just added Thrift Shop to a bunch of its Hot AC stations, and it's only #35 on the HAC chart - so they resist rap on their CHRs, and encourage it on their Hot ACs

???

It's almost like they're trying to keep their CHRs and HACs homogenized (with each other)

 

[bobdavcav]

WTH? Never in a million years would I have ever heard of Thrift Shop on Hot AC, I'm a little surprised it has even gotten to number 35 without Cumulus.

 

[carolinaradio]

Here's an interesting twist...

Cumulus just added Thrift Shop to a bunch of its Hot AC stations, and it's only #35 on the HAC chart - so they resist rap on their CHRs, and encourage it on their Hot ACs

???

It's almost like they're trying to keep their CHRs and HACs homogenized (with each other)

What the...?

Is Jan in charge of their Hot AC's also, or is someone else? This is absolutely baffling....to have safe CHR's, but liberal Hot AC's? Just weird.

I think Cumulus took the large market Hot AC's they got from Citadel (WDVD, WRQX, WPLJ) in a more conservative direction after they took them over - never thought they'd get this adventorous (WDVD used to be "today's best hits without the rap", and they're the only Hot AC in that market now)...

 

[The Outsider]

I think Jan is in charge of the CHR's, Hot AC and Country stations. While they will heavily daypart rap and cut rap verses out of some songs on their CHR's, he is adding "Thrift Shop" on the Hot ACs? WTF!?!?!?!

He just had them cut Jay-Z's rap out of "Suit & Tie" on some of the Cumulus CHR's after allowing them to play the real version, albiet dayparted, when the song was released. The inconsistancy when it comes to these things is what is frustrating to so many on this thread.

Here's an interesting twist...

Cumulus just added Thrift Shop to a bunch of its Hot AC stations, and it's only #35 on the HAC chart - so they resist rap on their CHRs, and encourage it on their Hot ACs

???

It's almost like they're trying to keep their CHRs and HACs homogenized (with each other)

What the...?

Is Jan in charge of their Hot AC's also, or is someone else? This is absolutely baffling....to have safe CHR's, but liberal Hot AC's? Just weird.

I think Cumulus took the large market Hot AC's they got from Citadel (WDVD, WRQX, WPLJ) in a more conservative direction after they took them over - never thought they'd get this adventorous (WDVD used to be "today's best hits without the rap", and they're the only Hot AC in that market now)...

 

[atlantaboy]

Here's an interesting twist...

Cumulus just added Thrift Shop to a bunch of its Hot AC stations, and it's only #35 on the HAC chart - so they resist rap on their CHRs, and encourage it on their Hot ACs

???

It's almost like they're trying to keep their CHRs and HACs homogenized (with each other)

What the...?

Is Jan in charge of their Hot AC's also, or is someone else? This is absolutely baffling....to have safe CHR's, but liberal Hot AC's? Just weird.

Do you think he's trying to consolidate programming between the two formats so that he can hire really cheap, inexperienced PDs? That's the only explanation I can think of...

 

[TheMusicMan]

I definitely don't know this for a fact, but judging by the proportion of night/overnight spins Mediabase shows TS receiving from WRQX, WWRM, and WDVD, the Cumulus HAC "Thrift Shop" spins might be coming exclusively from syndicated Perez Nights Live airplay.

By the way, it's extremely infuriating that Cumulus refuses to add Mumford & Sons and Of Monsters & Men to its CHRs.

 

[chrocket87]

Do you think he's trying to consolidate programming between the two formats so that he can hire really cheap, inexperienced PDs? That's the only explanation I can think of...

Ding ding ding. But to take it a step further: Why hire cheap, inexperienced PDs when you can just standardize the playlist and just add another responsibility to the current PD and not pay him/her a cent more? In about 5-10 years, I bet CC and Cumulus will have one PD managing entire clusters in their smaller and mid-sized markets.