Cumulus intern abuse

[travisl5678]

Full article here http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2010/05/cumulus-intern-abuse-allegations.html

 

[TheBigA]

Any time a big radio company does anything negative, Jerry assumes it's true. Case in point, a listener mistakes a Fresno signal as a San Francisco station re-airing an out of town station. His blog these days is a daily whining board of disgruntled and former employees. Let me know when it's proven to be true.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The "Internship Problem" has been making news lately, and isn't relegated to radio alone. The problem has been plaguing a federal government internship program for over a year. It's become big news in academic circles in the last few months. Union leadership has also gotten involved in the problem. Here's a pretty good overview:

http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/epi_responds_to_university_presidents_on_internship_regulations/

I'm sure that many people on this board have seen interns doing jobs that were formerly handled by paid staffers or part-timers. Promotions and engineering haven't just been cut to the bone, the marrow's been scooped out and sold to make soup. The number of internships in industry in general is up dramatically - and the unions and feds have noticed.

Would anybody be surprised to see a case like this pursued by a state Attorney General who's trying to promote his political career?

 

[TheBigA]

Unions have gotten involved? No surprise there. If it was up to them, interns would be banned.

When I worked in New York, the unions made it so that even short term emplyees were required to join the union. We had to pay their huge initiation fee, even though we were only going to be there for a few months. I'm sure the unions would look the other way if they could require interns to join the union.

Young people are looking for real work experience. The only way to do that is to do real work. Employers are looking for a way to audition prospective employees. This is a good way to find out who has potential.

There are interns working in government too. Maybe you remember the internship scandal that hit Capitol Hill a few years ago.

 

[nd2023]

The problem isn't having interns do real work, Cumulus was firing fulltime employees to hire interns to work for free.

 

[TheBigA]

The problem isn't having interns do real work, Cumulus was firing fulltime employees to hire interns to work for free.

So says Jerry. But apparently there aren't enough actual facts to file charges.

You're making a connection that may not be true.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Maybe you should try reading Jerry's article. Jerry is simply reporting that an attorney, Robert Ottinger, is contemplating a class action suit on the intern question, along with other actions that he's already handling again Cumulus.

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2010/05/cumulus-intern-abuse-allegations.html

The determination hasn't been made yet as to whether there are enough actual facts to file a lawsuit. As you know, anybody can file a suit. Ottinger is looking into charges by "several current and former Cumulus employees" that interns aren't receiving supervised education or training - they're essentially working for free.

You may think that internships are an "audition", but that's not how the law is written. Internships are supposed to be learning opportunities. Interns are supposed to receive supervised training and education in return for their time, effort, and productivity.

You might want to read the Department of Labor Fact Sheet on internships before you leap to defend corporate practices (again):

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf

 

[TheBigA]

The determination hasn't been made yet as to whether there are enough actual facts to file a lawsuit.

And I'm sure the attorney is donating his fee to charity. And Jerry, in his typical style, is reporting it as fact.

As one who spent time in the educational side of the world, it isn't easy to get companies to agree to internships. While you might see it as a way for companies to cut costs on employees, employers look at it as a lot of paperwork with minimal benefit. The kids they get are usually immature and immotivated, with no idea how to behave or dress in a work environment. And in truth, companies are not in the education business. Most of the companies I've worked for don't have internship programs. One company I was with paid them a small stipend. Very few have trainers who can work with interns. Only the biggest operations can devote time to that kind of thing. Clear Channel has one of the best training programs in the industry, and they often do educational seminars outside their own company.

You may think that internships are an "audition", but that's not how the law is written. Internships are supposed to be learning opportunities. Interns are supposed to receive supervised training and education in return for their time, effort, and productivity.

I'm well aware of the law. I'm not in the business of defending anyone, particularly a company I know nothing about. But having worked with students who have sought employment, I can tell you that internships can lead to employment. The employer gets a chance to sample the talents of an intern in non-committed atmosphere. That's what I mean by audition. While colleges want to educate, their ultimate goal is to get their graduates hired so they can make financial contributions back to the institution. That's the ugly side of the education business. So they like to get their students internships, and coach them as though it is an audition. That may not be in the law, but it's the way things are done.

This emphasis on the law and all the legal ramifications is why companies are hesitant to hire people in the first place. Especially people they don't know or have knowledge of. Today, people want to sue employers. They see it as a way of hitting the lottery without buying a ticket.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Yet, oddly, the number of radio interships has risen while the number of paid employees has fallen. It does make you wonder, doesn't it. Unless, of course, you're of the mind that "corporate can do no wrong".

 

[TheBigA]

Yet, oddly, the number of radio interships has risen while the number of paid employees has fallen. It does make you wonder, doesn't it. Unless, of course, you're of the mind that "corporate can do no wrong".

Where do you come up with this crap?

Show me documentation that internships are up.

 

[SirRoxalot]

If you read the original article, you'd know that's what the case is all about - that "interns DO displace regular employees". Many of us in the industry have seen unpaid interns doing jobs that were formerly handled by part-timers.

How about if YOU show some documentation for a change. You're long on opinion, and short on facts. You tell us that you've mostly worked with companies that didn't have internship programs, then go on to denigrate interns and internship programs. Maybe you're NOT an expert, and you don't have the proper experience to evaluate internship programs.

For people who are "immature and immotivated, with no idea how to behave or dress in a work environment", a lot of the "kids" are being asked to do a lot tasks for free. And it ain't just in radio.

 

[TheBigA]

If you read the original article, you'd know that's what the case is all about

My point is that the article isn't credible.

Maybe you're NOT an expert, and you don't have the proper experience to evaluate internship programs.

This is a message board. I understand the limitations. I've worked with internship programs both as an employer and as an educator. So you can use that information to decide what I know.

 

[TheBigA]

For people who are "immature and immotivated, with no idea how to behave or dress in a work environment", a lot of the "kids" are being asked to do a lot tasks for free. And it ain't just in radio.

I think you're taking that out of context, and turning it into an absolute. Certainly that characterization applies to lots of interns, particularly in the early stages of their education. Seniors are more mature than Sophomores. We all know that. But the company supervisors also can see who is better suited for the bigger challenges, and usually they offer those challenges to those who can execute. And those are the interns who can use their experience in their resume. Students in a professional curriculum (hich is different from an academic curriculum) are expected to develope a marketable resume and portfolio by graduation, and this experience provides that. I've worked in both strictly academic (which is usually a Communications program,) and a professional (which is Broadcasting), and there is a difference.

The key thing to know about interns is that they are only there for a limited time. So if you get an amazingly qualified intern, their term is only for a few months. The "free sample," so to speak, is not unlimited. And all interns are not equally qualified or interchangable. If you come upon a qualified student, you need to move that person to the next level, probably as a part-time employee. So the idea of simply replacing paid staff positions with a generic "intern" position just to save money isn't practical in a professional setting, not to mention the legalities of it.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Once again, you ignore the point of the article - that interns weren't being used for "next level" positions - they were being put on the reception desk, staffing remotes, and doing basically menial tasks. According to the article, they were being used like entry-level personnel, with little training, and even less oversight. They received neither training nor pay for their efforts.

I get it. You don't like the article. You don't like anything that reflects badly on corporate radio. It's almost as if you're a paid blogger defending the Mighty Corporation. Maybe that's why you show up on so many threads, and always touting the Corporate line.

 

[TheBigA]

Once again, you ignore the point of the article

And once again you ignore that I question the credibility of the article in the first place. I don't like the article because it's based on heresay and disgruntled ex-employees with an ax to grind. It has nothing to do with corporate or not. An impartial judge would throw such testimony out of court, and so would I.

Internship programs are not run in a vacuum. Students can easily go to their advisors if they feel they're being abused. There are lots of options available at the college if there really are problems. And colleges have the option to terminate a program at a company if they choose.

Focus on my points and question them. If I have said something wrong, tell me. I defend what *I* wrote, not what someone else wrote. Otherwise this turns into personal attacks, and we know where that goes.

 

[davideduardo]

Once again, you ignore the point of the article - that interns weren't being used for "next level" positions - they were being put on the reception desk, staffing remotes, and doing basically menial tasks. According to the article, they were being used like entry-level personnel, with little training, and even less oversight. They received neither training nor pay for their efforts.

That paragraph, by my count, is missing about eight instances of the word "allegedly."

 

[bossbill]

Hey, if someone wants to work for free, let 'em. And if a broadcaster is willing to trust his radio station to someone who may not have a clue and may cost him money, let 'em. It's his investment on the line.

My limited experience in using interns has been that the learning curve (as with any new employee) is not worth it for the limited time we have them. Even learning what to say when answering the phone has a learning curve. And if I can't trust my trained on-air people to properly pack up, set up, tear down, and unpack, why would I trust someone who is working for free?

 

[Ultimajock]

...having grown up in Oshkosh and competed against Cumulus stations there, I can confirm the corporate culture there stinks worse than the yeast smell along the Marquette Interchange in Milwaukee in '78 (immediately between the Miller and Pabst Breweries, IIRC). The GM there when I last competed against that cluster had been canned from a midday airshift at Hearst's WISN Milwaukee after being busted for picking up a hooker on the way home from work and then having the nerve to tell the Milwaukee Police Department that "people in my position don't have to put up with" charges of being Milwaukee's Favourite John. [Such was reported by Michael Zahn in the Milwaukee Journal, with the Milwaukee Sentinel also running the item; he was convicted of those charges a few weeks later.] He'd left Cumulus Oshkosh's previous incarnation in order to take the WISN gig, and when Hearst canned him Cumulus hired him back within days...