Current Dance Music?

[lalumia]

The answer is 'play different types of dance that might appeal to the mainstream;the "broadway diva vocal" records obviously don't work,and they're not gonna magically start working one morning.That's why there's a larger audience for 70s disco and 80s freestyle with the audiences at WNEW and WKTU than there is for all the new tracks that crash ,splat!,into the wall, and get dropped after three weeks(look at the KTU playlist for current dance over the past 6 months, and then tell me which ones had staying power;and that's why "All Night Passion" is still in heavy rotation, while "No Strings","If You Don'T Know Me By Now","When The Dawn Breaks"and all the other recent 'adds', went nowhere.
> The problem is dance music is again very underground with
> the gays, blacks, latinos, and straight people. To
> Crossover and get the people on the streets to listen to I
> dont have the answer to or else i would be the hero of dance
> music but it would help to have a commercial FM station
> dedicated to Cutting edge dance music like we had in the
> past.
>

 

[pumpin]

> Hip Hop is popular because it was promoted?(lol)

I didn't say "was", I said "is" promoted. There is a difference. I MORE than realize the history of rap and hip-hop and how it had a hard time getting into the mainstream.
Besides, there is really no such thing as a "hip-hop" club. Most clubs in large urban areas, don't only play one genre of music. Usually they play House, Hip-Hop and reggaeton. I don't know if they do the same in N.Y.C., but they do it here in Chicago.

Hip Hop had
> to literally fight it's way onto Top 40 radio and MTV for a
> decade, and was able to do so because it's popularity was
> coming from the "street" and the clubs, it was what the
> "street" and the clubs wanted and still want.

I partially agree with this statement. Because if this is or was the case about Hip-Hop music becoming popular, then how come House Music didn't get the same type of props. Once again, this (the clubs and the street) is still a form of PROMOTION!!!!! You can have the greatest form of music in the world, but if you don't promote it some sort of way, it will NEVER be known. I don't care if it is out of the back of your car or at a flea market, promotion is promotion.

Try playing a
> house record in a club full of hip hop fans; good luck.It
> has nothing to do with a 'promoter';Merlin The Magican and
> Harry Potter's magic wand still couldn't get the new breed
> audience to react to the last several years worth of 'dance'
> tracks; if the demand was there, you'd see it and hear it
> everywhere.
> The crybaby theme" hip hop was forced down everyone's
> throat" is utter rubbish. Top 40 radio and MTV resisted hip
> hop for as long as they could before the audience demand was
> too powerful to ignore,anyone who's really in the music
> business would be happy to explain that reality.
> > > Dance isnt going to ever get the Hip Hop Type ratings
> and
> > > thats because its a life style type of music. It is
> > > produced and consumed in a club going society. That has
> > been
> > > true since the early days of disco. But a commecial
> > > terristerial dance radio station can still be very
> > > profitable.
> > >
> > The reason why is because there isn't any promotion of
> dance
> > music like there is Hip-Hop.
> > If the Hip-Hop community didn't get the publicity on its
> > side, it would fail as well.
> > You do have to admit, record labels have their "favorites"
>
> > and dance isn't one of them.
> > I think what the dance/house music community needs is its
> > own "Russell Simmons" type promoter, so that way
> dance/House
> > could be on the map.
> >
>

 

[lalumia]

Hip Hop vs. Dance

In the modern world, everything is about lifestyle and STARS that the new breed can relate to and 'live through".With hip hop, the 18-25 year old crowd can look hip hop, talk hip hop, dress hip hop,act out like their favorite stars,like the Beatles was in the 60s and disco was in the 70s, Hip Hop is a "lifestyle statement", as is the current version of punk rock.
There is no similiar model for dance,no lingo,no clothes,no trends,no role models, no STARS for the guys to 'act out' with when the song comes on(except for the gay audience; we have a tendency to 'queen out" to Madonna, Debborah Cox, etc.The mainstream Top 40 crowd will have NONE of that.)
In an America where lifestyle and icons dominate hip hop, rock and country music, dance music is a lost soul, floating through the twilight zone, the incredible shrinking genre, getting smaller, and smaller, and.....
> > Hip Hop is popular because it was promoted?(lol)
>
> I didn't say "was", I said "is" promoted. There is a
> difference. I MORE than realize the history of rap and
> hip-hop and how it had a hard time getting into the
> mainstream.
> Besides, there is really no such thing as a "hip-hop" club.
> Most clubs in large urban areas, don't only play one genre
> of music. Usually they play House, Hip-Hop and reggaeton.
> I don't know if they do the same in N.Y.C., but they do it
> here in Chicago.
>
> Hip Hop had
> > to literally fight it's way onto Top 40 radio and MTV for
> a
> > decade, and was able to do so because it's popularity was
> > coming from the "street" and the clubs, it was what the
> > "street" and the clubs wanted and still want.
>
> I partially agree with this statement. Because if this is
> or was the case about Hip-Hop music becoming popular, then
> how come House Music didn't get the same type of props.
> Once again, this (the clubs and the street) is still a form
> of PROMOTION!!!!! You can have the greatest form of music
> in the world, but if you don't promote it some sort of way,
> it will NEVER be known. I don't care if it is out of the
> back of your car or at a flea market, promotion is
> promotion.
>
> Try playing a
> > house record in a club full of hip hop fans; good luck.It
> > has nothing to do with a 'promoter';Merlin The Magican and
>
> > Harry Potter's magic wand still couldn't get the new breed
>
> > audience to react to the last several years worth of
> 'dance'
> > tracks; if the demand was there, you'd see it and hear it
> > everywhere.
> > The crybaby theme" hip hop was forced down everyone's
> > throat" is utter rubbish. Top 40 radio and MTV resisted
> hip
> > hop for as long as they could before the audience demand
> was
> > too powerful to ignore,anyone who's really in the music
> > business would be happy to explain that reality.
> > > > Dance isnt going to ever get the Hip Hop Type ratings
> > and
> > > > thats because its a life style type of music. It is
> > > > produced and consumed in a club going society. That
> has
> > > been
> > > > true since the early days of disco. But a commecial
> > > > terristerial dance radio station can still be very
> > > > profitable.
> > > >
> > > The reason why is because there isn't any promotion of
> > dance
> > > music like there is Hip-Hop.
> > > If the Hip-Hop community didn't get the publicity on its
>
> > > side, it would fail as well.
> > > You do have to admit, record labels have their
> "favorites"
> >
> > > and dance isn't one of them.
> > > I think what the dance/house music community needs is
> its
> > > own "Russell Simmons" type promoter, so that way
> > dance/House
> > > could be on the map.
> > >
> >
>

 

[Radiogeek500]

Re: Swedish Eagle is right where he should be....

>
> And yeah, where IS Swedish Egil! Haven't spoken to him in
> years! For that matter, Alan Freed (Beat Radio) too!
>
> TONY SANTIAGO
>

Co Hosting KPWR's Powertools with KPWR mix legend Richard Humpty Vission every Saturday Night from 2-4am.

If that's the Swedish Eagle you're refering to(former Groove Radio PD)

If you're talking about another dude, I have no clue<P ID="signature">______________
Happy 20th Birthday Power 106

JOSH, Moderating the whole Radio-Info radio state of California and Indiana too!

www.myspace.com/radiogeek500</P>

 

[bigjersey]

Techno/Trance vs diva vocal

lalumia,

Do you think that the public would prefer Techno/Trance to broadway diva vocal" records?





------------------------------------------
> The answer is 'play different types of dance that might
> appeal to the mainstream;the "broadway diva vocal" records
> obviously don't work,and they're not gonna magically start
> working one morning.

 

[lalumia]

Re: Techno/Trance vs diva vocal

Techno/Trance of a more 'commercial' nature,as when "Do It Again" by Razor & Guido became a hit on Z 100 ,for example; the problem there was,that there was no story line to the record, it wasn't about something,and there wasn't an identifiable artist performance(except for the repetition of the one line,"Do It again" that remains my favorite crossover record of the 90s);the 'diva' records ARE about something(LOVE,LOVE LOVE)_but the presentation and performance of the diva records,by their very nature, aren't going to win over people who enjoy Mary J,Eminem,or Green Day.
Thus, you have already established records by Mariah Carey, Kelley Clarkson, etc which attempt to fill the gap by dropping a house beat on a down tempo pop song,but the general public already knows these records and artists aren't dance artists or true dance records,concieved as such: "Because Of You" by Kelly Clarkson was never intended to be a dance record.
"Because of You" is a depressive, mournful song,if you listen to the lyrics and the subject matter, so putting a booming house beat behind it works on the dance floor, but is ultimately ridiculous to anyone paying attention to the entire product as a casual listener on the radio.
This sort of thing comes across as an act of desperation; we have no big ,top line dance artists of our own,so we'll borrow Mariah, Kelly, Black Eyed Peas,heck, even Tim McGraw. If you think about it,it's somewhat pathetic.
If this is insulting anyone, it isn't meant to, it's an attempt to assess a dire situation and offer solutions.
And,,,of course,as you know,my ideal solution to dance's Top 40 drought(gratuitous plug coming)...it's called "DanceFloor".
If anyone has any better ideas, I'd love to hear them!
> lalumia,
>
> Do you think that the public would prefer Techno/Trance to
> broadway diva vocal" records?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
> > The answer is 'play different types of dance that might
> > appeal to the mainstream;the "broadway diva vocal" records
>
> > obviously don't work,and they're not gonna magically start
>
> > working one morning.
>

 

[RyanCA]

Re: Techno/Trance vs diva vocal

> Techno/Trance of a more 'commercial' nature,as when "Do It
> Again" by Razor & Guido became a hit on Z 100 ,for example;
> the problem there was,that there was no story line to the
> record, it wasn't about something,and there wasn't an
> identifiable artist performance(except for the repetition of
> the one line,"Do It again" that remains my favorite
> crossover record of the 90s);the 'diva' records ARE about
> something(LOVE,LOVE LOVE)_but the presentation and
> performance of the diva records,by their very nature, aren't
> going to win over people who enjoy Mary J,Eminem,or Green
> Day.
> Thus, you have already established records by Mariah Carey,
> Kelley Clarkson, etc which attempt to fill the gap by
> dropping a house beat on a down tempo pop song,but the
> general public already knows these records and artists
> aren't dance artists or true dance records,concieved as
> such: "Because Of You" by Kelly Clarkson was never intended
> to be a dance record.
> "Because of You" is a depressive, mournful song,if you
> listen to the lyrics and the subject matter, so putting a
> booming house beat behind it works on the dance floor, but
> is ultimately ridiculous to anyone paying attention to the
> entire product as a casual listener on the radio.
> This sort of thing comes across as an act of desperation; we
> have no big ,top line dance artists of our own,so we'll
> borrow Mariah, Kelly, Black Eyed Peas,heck, even Tim McGraw.
> If you think about it,it's somewhat pathetic.
> If this is insulting anyone, it isn't meant to, it's an
> attempt to assess a dire situation and offer solutions.
> And,,,of course,as you know,my ideal solution to dance's Top
> 40 drought(gratuitous plug coming)...it's called
> "DanceFloor".
> If anyone has any better ideas, I'd love to hear them!
> > lalumia,


Who cares who sings it and if its a remix. If it sounds mainstream and works then what does it matter. And no offense but theres plenty of OTHER great songs out there besides YOURS that would fit on radio perfectly and they aint all remakes either.

 

[RyanCA]

Re: Current Dance

> The answer is 'play different types of dance that might
> appeal to the mainstream;the "broadway diva vocal" records
> obviously don't work,and they're not gonna magically start
> working one morning.That's why there's a larger audience for
> 70s disco and 80s freestyle with the audiences at WNEW and
> WKTU than there is for all the new tracks that crash
> ,splat!,into the wall, and get dropped after three
> weeks(look at the KTU playlist for current dance over the
> past 6 months, and then tell me which ones had staying
> power;and that's why "All Night Passion" is still in heavy
> rotation, while "No Strings","If You Don'T Know Me By
> Now","When The Dawn Breaks"and all the other recent 'adds',
> went nowhere.
>


One of the reasons why some of these records probably get dropped fast is because they have to keep a balance playlist dicated by Clear Channel. Tight playlist. Don't overwhelm KTU with too much current Dance etc.. Make room for current Hit R&B and Hip Hop and some Latin Pop. These songs probably could do well with more spins but other dance songs that tested well probably beat them out more plays. Since KTU isnt pure dance they only have so much room because of all the Ashantis and Beyonces that got to fit in there too.

Who saids theres a larger audience for 70's and 80's than current dance? WNEW ain't exactly setting the books on fire.

 

[lalumia]

Re: Techno/Trance vs diva vocal

> > Techno/Trance of a more 'commercial' nature,as when "Do It
>
> > Again" by Razor & Guido became a hit on Z 100 ,for
> example;
> > the problem there was,that there was no story line to the
> > record, it wasn't about something,and there wasn't an
> > identifiable artist performance(except for the repetition
> of
> > the one line,"Do It again" that remains my favorite
> > crossover record of the 90s);the 'diva' records ARE about
> > something(LOVE,LOVE LOVE)_but the presentation and
> > performance of the diva records,by their very nature,
> aren't
> > going to win over people who enjoy Mary J,Eminem,or Green
> > Day.
> > Thus, you have already established records by Mariah
> Carey,
> > Kelley Clarkson, etc which attempt to fill the gap by
> > dropping a house beat on a down tempo pop song,but the
> > general public already knows these records and artists
> > aren't dance artists or true dance records,concieved as
> > such: "Because Of You" by Kelly Clarkson was never
> intended
> > to be a dance record.
> > "Because of You" is a depressive, mournful song,if you
> > listen to the lyrics and the subject matter, so putting a
> > booming house beat behind it works on the dance floor, but
>
> > is ultimately ridiculous to anyone paying attention to the
>
> > entire product as a casual listener on the radio.
> > This sort of thing comes across as an act of desperation;
> we
> > have no big ,top line dance artists of our own,so we'll
> > borrow Mariah, Kelly, Black Eyed Peas,heck, even Tim
> McGraw.
> > If you think about it,it's somewhat pathetic.
> > If this is insulting anyone, it isn't meant to, it's an
> > attempt to assess a dire situation and offer solutions.
> > And,,,of course,as you know,my ideal solution to dance's
> Top
> > 40 drought(gratuitous plug coming)...it's called
> > "DanceFloor".
> > If anyone has any better ideas, I'd love to hear them!
> > > lalumia,
>
>
> Who cares who sings it and if its a remix. If it sounds
> mainstream and works then what does it matter. And no
> offense but theres plenty of OTHER great songs out there
> besides YOURS that would fit on radio perfectly and they
> aint all remakes either.
>
The mainstream radio audience, which is a FAN based audience,cares very much 'who sings It',and where a Kelly Clarkson record is concerned, it seems her fans prefer to hear the 'real"(non remix version).This discussion has been about dance reaching the mainstream audience ,currently 'owned' by hip hop, r&b etc.,so, no offense taken, but i'm curious to hear you name one or two of those "perfect fit records" that you talk about but don't give an example of.

 

[lalumia]

Re: Current Dance

> > The answer is 'play different types of dance that might
> > appeal to the mainstream;the "broadway diva vocal" records
>
> > obviously don't work,and they're not gonna magically start
>
> > working one morning.That's why there's a larger audience
> for
> > 70s disco and 80s freestyle with the audiences at WNEW and
>
> > WKTU than there is for all the new tracks that crash
> > ,splat!,into the wall, and get dropped after three
> > weeks(look at the KTU playlist for current dance over the
> > past 6 months, and then tell me which ones had staying
> > power;and that's why "All Night Passion" is still in heavy
>
> > rotation, while "No Strings","If You Don'T Know Me By
> > Now","When The Dawn Breaks"and all the other recent
> 'adds',
> > went nowhere.
> >
>
>
> One of the reasons why some of these records probably get
> dropped fast is because they have to keep a balance playlist
> dicated by Clear Channel. Tight playlist. Don't overwhelm
> KTU with too much current Dance etc.. Make room for current
> Hit R&B and Hip Hop and some Latin Pop. These songs probably
> could do well with more spins but other dance songs that
> tested well probably beat them out more plays. Since KTU
> isnt pure dance they only have so much room because of all
> the Ashantis and Beyonces that got to fit in there too.
>
> Who saids theres a larger audience for 70's and 80's than
> current dance? WNEW ain't exactly setting the books on fire.
>
Records get dropped when they don't "test" well.There was a "tight playlist" back when "Things Just Ain't The same","Sexual","Unspeakable Joy","Skin",'Find Another Woman",etc were hits.Those records provoked strong audience response,and demonstrated staying power.
The songs "probably could do well"; based on what?Your desire for them to do so?
Radio doesn't do business that way.KTU isn't pure dance anymore because pure dance let KTU down, at least in it's 'currents" form.
Who said there's a larger audience for 70s and 80s? OBVIOUSLY both stations' research said so, I don't think there's a hidden agenda to revive the careers of Silver Convention and the Andrea True Connection; their audience research obviously tells the tale....
and,quite frankly,there's NO current dance station "setting the books onfire", is there!

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: Hip Hop vs. Dance

> In the modern world, everything is about lifestyle and STARS
> that the new breed can relate to and 'live through".With hip
> hop, the 18-25 year old crowd can look hip hop, talk hip
> hop, dress hip hop,act out like their favorite stars,like
> the Beatles was in the 60s and disco was in the 70s, Hip Hop
> is a "lifestyle statement", as is the current version of
> punk rock.
> There is no similiar model for dance,no lingo,no clothes,no
> trends,no role models, no STARS for the guys to 'act out'
> with when the song comes on(except for the gay audience; we
> have a tendency to 'queen out" to Madonna, Debborah Cox,
> etc.The mainstream Top 40 crowd will have NONE of that.)
> In an America where lifestyle and icons dominate hip hop,
> rock and country music, dance music is a lost soul, floating
> through the twilight zone, the incredible shrinking genre,
> getting smaller, and smaller, and.....

That is a statement that, sadly, I agree with.

Hip-hop is definitely about culture and lifestyle. Reggaeton "bleeds" into the hip-hop frame, which is why that music has become extremely popular. Dance does not have a lifestyle look. You don't see guys dressed in some thuggy manner doing a "holla" for Bob Sinclair. It IS that crowd under 25 that is a dominant music force and if they aren't going for dance, that IS a problem for the genre. Hip-hop has a "brand". Reggaeton has their "brand". Country music has a "brand" as well. Dance music, being faceless, DJ driven, does not.

There has to be REVOLUTIONARY changes for dance to be respected in the mainstream genre. No question video airplay has to occur somewhere. The only network I can think of that could do a dance music show, and it would make sense, is LOGO. LOGO does cater to the gay and lesbian population. Yet dance music could be the one thing that could get straight folks to tune in...therefore helping bring in new viewership, to the point that people won't care about the gay/lesbian factor when tuning in. They do have good movies on.

There are MANY dance music compilations out there mixed by the club DJ's out there. I'd eventually like to see more artists come out with album driven material. Granted, artists want to make a mark in the clubs, etc when they come out with the one track with the multiple remixes. And while I don't have a problem with that, I think artists should work on additional material and eventually come out with an album....sure, have the remixes in there but add in at LEAST another 5 to 6 tracks. Hell...I'd take an EP version (3 or 4 songs) of an album; those are popular in the UK.

Regarding the clubs....the only dance genre that has a CHANCE to be heard in the hip-hop/reggaeton crowd is HOUSE (freestyle if the crowd is predominantly Latino) and that's because house does have the soulful roots out of Chicago. Maybe if a club DJ adds in two or three in a set, MAYBE it can get crowds aware. And if the crowds bolt the floor...then just get back to hip-hop/reggaeton FAST.

It's a MONUMENTAL task but something that should occur. Just a matter of figuring out how to implement this.

TS

 

[Radio-X]

Re: Swedish Eagle is right where he should be....

> >
> > And yeah, where IS Swedish Egil! Haven't spoken to him in
>
> > years! For that matter, Alan Freed (Beat Radio) too!
>
> >
> > TONY SANTIAGO
> >
>
> Co Hosting KPWR's Powertools with KPWR mix legend Richard
> Humpty Vission every Saturday Night from 2-4am.
>
> If that's the Swedish Eagle you're refering to(former Groove
> Radio PD)
>
> If you're talking about another dude, I have no clue
>

Ah...and you forgot! Swedish Egil also VT's 1-7 am on Sirius First Wave

Radio-X<P ID="signature">______________
To any Richmonders:

Please be my valentine this year and express mail me some of Ukrop's White House rolls!!!</P>

 

[BRH]

Re: Techno/Trance vs diva vocal

I agree that dance music is in a bad situation currently. Personally, I love the music and would love to see it become more mainstream and popular, but I've pretty much accepted the fact that it's not going to happen. I've resigned myself to the fact that dance/electronica is "ungerground" here in the U.S. and that is probably where it will stay. I'm not what most would consider a typical dance fan (I'm a 36 yr. old straight white male from the South). But therein lies the problem. That perception by U.S. listeners that dance/electronica is only for gay people, teenyboppers, or geeky tehcno people. This perception is so pervasive that most would never dream of even giving dance a listen.
I have a 12 year old son, and he enjoys a lot of the dance music I listen to and has his IPOD loaded with it, and will even sing along in the car. But when one of his friends gets in, it's "Ok, dad, can we please put the radio on Hip Hop or Top 40". It's just not seen as "hip" to admit to liking dance (especially among teens and 20 somethings). Personally, I never cared what people thought or assumed of me, so I blast it anyway.
But with all of that said, I think the whole "not having an image" argument is correct. In today's music scene of hip hop and pop, it's all about the image (the clothes, the slang, the culture, etc.). The image of the artist is often more important than the music. But with dance music, it is almost exclusively "dj" based. How many tracks can we name that are "DJ XXXX (featuring XXXX)". That is the problem. The vocalists are considered unimportant and an afterthought. Often DJ's use many different vocalists or samples and there is no consistant "image". In other words, in today's hip hop and pop, it is always the lead vocalist that "IS" the band or music. The U.S. audience focuses exclusively on the vocalist as "being" the band or the music. As long as dance is about the dj's and producers, and not the vocalists, I think it has zero chance of being accepted in America. The U.S. is simply not a "club culture" that views DJ's/Producers as "real" artists. Thank God, this isn't the case in Europe, but it definately is here in the U.S. And I don't know how dance/electronica is going to overcome this. The only way is to go back to the way disco and even freestyle was marketed in the 70's and 80's. (Which is by marketing it by the individual vocalists and not the dj's.) This, of course, goes against everything that is going on in dance everywhere else in the world right now, so I just don't see how it is ever going to happen. Therefore, as much as I hate to admit it, I really don't see dance breaking through to the mainstream in any big way soon. The U.S. is just too "image" obsessed, and too conservative to be open to dance. The average teen and 20 something listener in the U.S. is too worried about "being viewed as gay" or "having to be tough or street" to open their mind and get into dance music. And that is really a shame. That's why I love Europe and the UK so much. They are so much more open and unafraid and progressive. I would give anything if the U.S. listeners would adopt more of that European stance and culture, but sadly, the U.S. is too "macho" and too uptight and I don't think it will ever happen.
Anyway, as for me. I am loving satellite radio and channels like "the Beat" and "BPM". I think this, along with the internet, is probably going to be the main place for dance music in the U.S. for now. And ultimately, I guess that is ok with me, because for dance to become mainstream in the U.S., it would have to morph into something much different than what it is now, and personally I don't want that to happen. My favorite dance/electronica is the stuff currently coming out of Europe (I love the euro/euphoric type records. I love both the euro/vocal/trance sound and also the European house sound with all of the sampled/filtered/looped tracks. I prefer both of these over the "diva" based U.S. sound. But with that being said, I don't think these types of dj based recordings will ever cross over to the U.S. mainstream. It's just a different culture and the U.S. audience is unwilling to try anything new. The U.S. audience views itself as the "be all and end all" in tastes and trends and refuses to be open to anything else. Sad but true.)
Anyway, this attitude seems to be pushing me farther away from mainstream U.S. music. I have accepted the fact that I am going to listen to "underground" music and that's ok with me. So I'll keep "the Beat", "BPM", and "BBC Radio 1" on (on my Sirius and XM radios), and as far as terrestrial radio goes in the U.S.; I could care less anymore.