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Dance fans resentment towards BPM

N

nd2023

Banned
Every day on the BPM Facebook page, there are loads of complaints about BPM. I've even seen some complaints get deleted by the page administrator.

This Wednesday, Ke$ha will be interviewed on the BPM morning show, claiming that it is the #2 track in the country right now. Everyone who replied to that posting HATES this.
I personally think that Ke$ha shouldn't be on the BPM morning show, but should instead be on the morning show of 20 on 20, Kiss, or the Hitlist as she is a CHR artist. BPM is not an independent dance station, but it has 3 top 40 stations with the same service whose listeners would be more inclined to hear an interview with Ke$ha.
I want to hear interviews with dance artists and DJs on BPM, not artists that I could also hear interviewed by Ryan Seacrest on the hundreds of CHR station that air his show. I am sure that there would be enough dance artists and DJs familiar to BPM listeners who are willing to be interviewed on the morning show that they could interview a different artist every day for a month.

Also, nobody likes the Bagatelle Brunch show, and that show doesn't fit the BPM format. It would be more appropriate for a station like KTU.
People also hate the repetitive dance songs and pop remixes on BPM.

Referring to Tony's thoughts about the different schools of dance fans, the majority of BPM's fans are the core dance fans who pay for satellite radio so they can hear cutting edge dance music on BPM and Area. The casual dance fan would be turned off by the pure dance of BPM, but they would likely keep BPM as one of the presets and listen when they're in the mood. That's why people were happy when The Beat and BPM were separate. The casual dance fans had their familiar stuff on The Beat, and the core dance fans chose to subscribe to XM for BPM.
Now that 3G is widespread, and many people have data service on their phones, there are many more Internet stations for all kinds of dance fans to choose from, you're not stuck with having to subscribe to satellite to get the latest dance music on the car radio.
 
Nick said:
Every day on the BPM Facebook page, there are loads of complaints about BPM. I've even seen some complaints get deleted by the page administrator.

This Wednesday, Ke$ha will be interviewed on the BPM morning show, claiming that it is the #2 track in the country right now. Everyone who replied to that posting HATES this.
I personally think that Ke$ha shouldn't be on the BPM morning show, but should instead be on the morning show of 20 on 20, Kiss, or the Hitlist as she is a CHR artist. BPM is not an independent dance station, but it has 3 top 40 stations with the same service whose listeners would be more inclined to hear an interview with Ke$ha.
I want to hear interviews with dance artists and DJs on BPM, not artists that I could also hear interviewed by Ryan Seacrest on the hundreds of CHR station that air his show. I am sure that there would be enough dance artists and DJs familiar to BPM listeners who are willing to be interviewed on the morning show that they could interview a different artist every day for a month.

Also, nobody likes the Bagatelle Brunch show, and that show doesn't fit the BPM format. It would be more appropriate for a station like KTU.
People also hate the repetitive dance songs and pop remixes on BPM.

Referring to Tony's thoughts about the different schools of dance fans, the majority of BPM's fans are the core dance fans who pay for satellite radio so they can hear cutting edge dance music on BPM and Area. The casual dance fan would be turned off by the pure dance of BPM, but they would likely keep BPM as one of the presets and listen when they're in the mood. That's why people were happy when The Beat and BPM were separate. The casual dance fans had their familiar stuff on The Beat, and the core dance fans chose to subscribe to XM for BPM.
Now that 3G is widespread, and many people have data service on their phones, there are many more Internet stations for all kinds of dance fans to choose from, you're not stuck with having to subscribe to satellite to get the latest dance music on the car radio.
Click to expand...

Why shouldnt Ke$ha get interviewed on BPM. Take a look at the Dance airplay charts, she's at the top of the chart. BPM like it or not was designed for the masses not a core listener. All the stations on Sirius are the same way that are play current music. If you dont like it, dont listen.
 
Wow, another post bashing a dance station. What a shocker! ::)

jp
 
dancerev889 although I agree Ke$ha more than fits the format for an interview, How can you,as a program director, just use the stance well if you don't like it don't listen? Since the merger of the two dance stations on satelite the product is not as strong..They play way too many pop remixes and not enough "pure" dance tracks...and people ,like nick and myself, can complain because we pay for the service. Many people that I know subscribe for BPM and AREA alone....which means they want dance music. If they want ne-yo, beyonce, ect they probably wouldn't pay for the sevice. I agree when terrestrial "dance" stations add these artists it makes sense because they are rated and they want mass appeal and ratings..they feel familar artists will sell their product....BPM has no excuse they are not rated so they can program to their specific audience that wants dance...not pop dance...not remix dance...dance..in the form of trance, house ect.
JP I don't think Nick is bashing the station. If you have read his posts he supports dance. I think he is sharing his frustration for stations that claim to be "dance" but certainly are not......(PARTY in NY good example as well)
 
instigator said:
dancerev889 although I agree Ke$ha more than fits the format for an interview, How can you,as a program director, just use the stance well if you don't like it don't listen? Since the merger of the two dance stations on satelite the product is not as strong..They play way too many pop remixes and not enough "pure" dance tracks...and people ,like nick and myself, can complain because we pay for the service. Many people that I know subscribe for BPM and AREA alone....which means they want dance music. If they want ne-yo, beyonce, ect they probably wouldn't pay for the sevice. I agree when terrestrial "dance" stations add these artists it makes sense because they are rated and they want mass appeal and ratings..they feel familar artists will sell their product....BPM has no excuse they are not rated so they can program to their specific audience that wants dance...not pop dance...not remix dance...dance..in the form of trance, house ect.
JP I don't think Nick is bashing the station. If you have read his posts he supports dance. I think he is sharing his frustration for stations that claim to be "dance" but certainly are not......(PARTY in NY good example as well)
Click to expand...

I take this stance because its the same complaints about the same stations over and over again. It's like everything else in life, If you dont like the product dont buy it. Its a subscription service. Thats their ratings. From what I have seen, the subscribers are staying there or they are just listening to different channels. Satellite radio is designed for people to check out all of their programming, not to just stay on one channel. That is why there is a need for mass appeal on the channels. Party again is not a dance station nor have they said they were. They call themselves Party music leader. Last time I checked that doesn't mean just dance music.
 
I think there is nothing wrong with posting ones opinion on anything but when it becomes a recurring theme in every post about BPM or Party I tend to view it as piling on or bashing. Here is the BPM playlist:

Ke$ha - Tik Tok RCA
Deadmau5/Rob Swire - Ghosts n Stuff Ultra
Armin van Buuren/J. Rene - Fine Without You Ultra
Haley - This is How it Goes [Kaskade] Ultra
Morgan Page - Fight For You [Sultan & Ned Shepard] Nettwerk
OceanLab - Lonely Girl [Ercola] Ultra/Anjunabeats
Medina - You And I [Deadmau5] Parlaphone
Kelli Crossley - Hostage [Mike Bordes] Nervous
Inna - Hot [Play & Win] Ultra
Star Pilots - In The Heat Of The Night Parker/Next Plateau
AnnaGrace - Love Keeps Calling Robbins/News
M'Black - Heartbreak Robbins
Plumb - Hang On [Digital Dog] Curb
Tiesto/C.C. Sheffield - Escape Me Ultra
Sophia May - Come Back [Digital Dog]Nervous
Alessandro Viale - Sweet Little Thing [Paul Sander] Bang
Armin van Buuren/V. Velzen - Broken Tonight Ultra
Fedde le Grand/Mitch Crown - Let Me Be Real News
David Guetta/Estelle - One Love EMI/Astralwerks
Lady Gaga - Bad Romance [Chew Fu] Interscope
The Temper Trap - Sweet Disposition [Axwell/Dirty South] Infectious/Glassnote
Marchi's Flow - Feel The Love Bang
Richard Grey/Erick Morillo - Say The Word Subliminal
Colbie Caillat - Fallin' For You [Jason Nevins] Universal/Republic
Yeah Yeah Yeahs - Heads Will Roll [A-Trak] Interscope/Dress Up
Robbie Rivera/Adrian - Closer To The Sun Ultra
Madonna - Revolver [Paul van Dyk] Warner
Rihanna - Hard [Jody Den Broeder] Def Jam
Damien.S/Femke - Stars Collide [Timothy Allan] SeaToSun/Loverush
Jay Sean/Lil Jon/Sean Paul - Do You Remember [T.M.] Universal/Republic
Jason Derulo - In My Head [Les Boys] Warner
Lady Gaga/Beyonce - Telephone [Kaskade] Interscope
ManiaCalm/LaLa - I Will Never Forget You Future Retro
Kim Sozzi - Secret Love Ultra
Ameerah - The Sound of Missing You Robbins
SpekrFreks/L10 - Music's Got You System
Chicane/Natasha Bedingfield - Bruised Water [Michael Woods] Ultra
Little Boots - Remedy [Wideboys] Elecktra
Lucas Prata - Remember [Tune Adiks] Robbins
Britney Spears - 3 [Esmee Denters/Dave Aude] Jive
Captcha - Gotta Let You Go Next Plateau
DJ Antoine - In My Dreams Ultra
Cahill/Nikki Belle - Trippin' On You Ultra
Kaskade/Seamus Haji/Haley - So Far Away [Kaskade] Ultra
Ultimate/Pitbull - Take Me There [Boris] Ultimate Domination

Adds
Samantha - U-Turn Robbins
Timbaland/Justin Timberlake - Carry Out [Julien Creance] Interscope

Tell me how this resembles what has been described in these threads. I left off the spins as I don't believe I'm allowed to post those here but they are in order from most - least played this week. Maybe 9 pop tracks. And all of those are being played on other dance stations in the country. This is a pretty good snapshot as to what dance radio in America looks like right now. It may not be what a die hard wants to hear but this is their mainstream dance channel. I just can't see what all the complaining is about.

jp
 
JP...many of the pop titles are the ones in heavy rotation..let's be fair. I don't have a huge problem with BPM but some of their remixes are just ridiculous like Hard by Rihanna the song doesn't need a sped up mix and it seems like I hear more of these tracks then a lot of the ones you mentioned. It's not a terrible station it just could be a lot better.

Dancerev889...my point was some people do subscribe to sirius just for BPM (just as some do for Howard Stern or commercial free music) So I feel the product they are programing should be targeted for the audience listening...believe it or not many people want a "pure " dance station. Maybe when XM and serius merged theyn should have kept both of their dance stations on ..one for more trance house and one for more pop remixes..I'm just saying people do tune out because of this. Yes I know they will tune back in...because they don't have many other options to listen to.
As for the Party stop postering they took over Pulse's frequency to try to get their audience ,a "dance " audience.


I pose a different question. I have been following these boards for about two years..why are "the usual suspects" so critical and all knowing about other people's posts? It seems like they talk with authority and always stick up for each other when sometimes their views are clearly wrong. Look everybody has something to learn here and it seems like the dance fans are extremely passionate as are the dance -haters...my point is a couple of the programmers , promotion people that are here speak down and are quite rude when they answer other peoples posts. Some people that post have no experience in radio so lighten up on them they may just love radio or dance radio. Everyones view on what a dance station should play is different....listen , reply ...but stop being "all knowing" unless you truely are.
 
instigator said:
JP...many of the pop titles are the ones in heavy rotation..let's be fair.
Click to expand...

That's not true. As you can see from the playlist which was given to you in order of spins there are only 2 songs in the Top 20 that are "pop" songs. #1 and #20. So it is not the Pop songs in heavy rotation. That's a fact. It may have been different a few months ago but it's not that way now.

instigator said:
As for the Party stop postering they took over Pulse's frequency to try to get their audience ,a "dance " audience.
Click to expand...

Again that isn't an accurate statement. They took over the signal to enter their brand of radio into the #1 Market in the world.
 
First everyone, BREATHE IN, and BREATHE OUT! :)

First, Nick....if you CLAIM to be a dance fan, then why do you start these bash posts all the time? You do it with PartyFM often enough in here. You also did it to some HD2 station in Baltimore, that I had to call BRETT out to answer it since I was getting rather sick and tired of it (to which he didn't dignify it with a response, and rightfully so). And now you do it here. You really do amaze me, and not in a positive manner. :mad:

But since the topic has been brought up, we do have to call things out here regarding the resentment because I was very critical too. Still am, but looking at the recent playlist, BPM actually appears better than it was around the same time last year, post-merger. If BPM started out like this, then most of the core fans wouldn't complain. To which that is where the ANGST began.

Let's go back to history because somehow things may have been forgotten. When it was solely an XM thing, "BPM" was a very cutting edge dance station reaching out to the core fans that paid for the service along with other stations such as "The Move". XM had always catered to that music fan that wanted a bit of "edge". For those that wanted to get more of a "radio" feel for music, Sirius was around for that, which is why you had a station like "The Beat", which was good for those casual listeners. Yet at the same time when something NEW came out, "The Beat" was late in the game for it. "Area" on Sirius, was a great station and yet I could also understand to some how it could be rather intimidating because of the ultra-progressive trance, EDM sounds. It was really TWO extremes on Sirius yet with XM, somehow they balanced it out.

Early on when BPM was kept for SiriusXM, they played a lot of 80's material. I remember being at last year's WMC wondering what the heck was going on. I did speak to Mike Abrams personally about it (since he was there) and the 80's material was eventually shifted out. Then "Bagatelle Brunch" came in, which to me sounds like a show for "transplanted hipsters entering NYC thinking they are 'kool kats', hanging at the Meatpacking District, yet are listening to Billy Joel on a dance station. See where I'm getting at here? Yet when it came to the fans speaking out about BPM on the Facebook boards, a lot of "games" were being played around in there which caused the fan anger to broil. I was on that board for quite a while with those games, until I decided it was better for me and for what I'm doing to not fall into that trap and work on the positivity of this music.

Point is, BPM WAS about the core fan base when it was launched. Guys like Blake Lawrence and Alan Freed KNEW what the fans wanted and programmed it in such a manner. I suppose in a lot of ways, the BPM (pre-11/08) to BPM (post-11/08) arguments hold similar "water" with Pulse vs. Party FM. While I don't blame ANYTHING that has happened with the station on Mike Abrams, Geronimo or Austin Kramer, clearly the Sirius philosophy had taken over BPM. While the station, according to the list JP provided actually appears to be good and I have few complaints about it, it still isn't close to the days prior to November 2008. Add to the fact that people are paying for this, they want something that they can't find on a "traditional" basis. Sirius helped take that away.

Honestly Brett, I have to call you out on that attitude "If you don't like it, don't listen". :-[ I think you have to give me SOME credit for trying to view things from BOTH the fan perspective and radio industry angles and being as fair-minded as possible. I can understand why Ke$ha appeared on BPM. She is MASS appeal, the hottest thing right now since Lady GaGa in the mindset of mainstream broadcasting and caters to the "casual" fan that make up the majority (as I had stated on another thread). Yet we go back to the history of BPM and perhaps understand why a core dance fan may be rather upset by this. While yes, as a programmer, it's your job to keep a station financially afloat based on the formatics of the music, at the same time you want to please ALL aspects of fans with such formatics. That's why Joel Salkowitz was successful when he ran Hot 103/97 as well as Pulse 87. He knew that "balance" whereas to appeal to that casual crowd yet get at the core crowd evenly. In that sense a core dance fan would "tolerate" hearing a Sean Kingston or Chris Brown track on Pulse 87. Which is what is NOT happening with Party FM. And I GET IT, Vic and John need to keep the stations financially afloat but in the process of doing so, a large segment of the crowd is being alienated because of the dance/hip-hop infrastructure. They may be deleting posts on their board, but I have never heard anyone there say "if you don't like it, don't listen".

You are in a position of great responsibility to present this music to the masses in your region and people respect you for that. You have to concern yourself with the formatics of your station along with the brand of "politics" that goes with it. I know. Sometimes these arguments can be repetitive. But at the same time, it is up to you (and all of us that love this music in such power) to help "guide" and "mentor". To slam on it just isolates and we can't have that. Makes us all look weak.

Maybe this is me, but when I do my one hour show, I WANT to hear what the listeners have to say. In fact, I need to. :) Maybe my hands aren't as "tied" as others, but I want to give my listeners the VERY best because for what I do, I do it for them as well as the growth of our music. Which is something, because there may be a lot of tracks that people don't know, but they LOVE it because of how it is presented. Okay, maybe philosophy doesn't "pay the bills" but it's still something I stand strong on. And if a listener doesn't like something, I'll investigate it and poof...gone. Likewise, if a listener wants MORE of something, I go for it. Yes, I know....programmers do this too, but I have to get back to that one thread on "politics" a while back ago. Heck, if I can create that "engine" for you guys to "earn" something, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I envy hip-hop for that :).

I hate the position I'm in right now because I am stuck between a "rock and a hard place". I understand WHY Party FM has to program the way they do, and I'm still "holding out" for that "big picture" where they can split the signal for 87.7 to become MORE dance intensive, so as to allow 105.3 to become more "rhythmic", to cover that Eastern portion of Suffolk County that doesn't have a hip-hop/rhythmic outlet. I'm not bashing Vic or John in that regards. However, from a dance music fans point of view, I can understand their concerns regarding the "formatics" of the station, especially that some folks in the area do remember Party 105.3 as a dance station when Andre Ferro ran it and being in "shock" hearing the current version.

Pardon the length of this. John Parker did put a good list up, and in comparison to where we were LAST YEAR with BPM, this is an "improvement". We are NEVER going to get that old BPM back, unfortunately. :( But you have Radio Danz, which comes darn close for the core fans. Perhaps my hope is that we can get more fans that are casual to become core. That takes time, and molding with the music. But it's worth it.

Thank you for hearing me out. And Nick, I love ya kid, but you gotta STOP starting new posts with these negative vibes.

Seriously.
 
One of the reasons I subscribe to Sirius is for BPM. I think the station could sound a lot better...even c-89.5 from Seattle seems to sound better and have cooler remixes than BPM. But since I have nothing else that even comes close to dance, I'm stuck with BPM in the car. But definately, the station can be improved. Heck, I would take C 89.5 over BPM if I could get that in my car.
 
Nick said:
Every day on the BPM Facebook page, there are loads of complaints about BPM. I've even seen some complaints get deleted by the page administrator.

This Wednesday, Ke$ha will be interviewed on the BPM morning show, claiming that it is the #2 track in the country right now. Everyone who replied to that posting HATES this.
I personally think that Ke$ha shouldn't be on the BPM morning show, but should instead be on the morning show of 20 on 20, Kiss, or the Hitlist as she is a CHR artist. BPM is not an independent dance station, but it has 3 top 40 stations with the same service whose listeners would be more inclined to hear an interview with Ke$ha.
I want to hear interviews with dance artists and DJs on BPM, not artists that I could also hear interviewed by Ryan Seacrest on the hundreds of CHR station that air his show. I am sure that there would be enough dance artists and DJs familiar to BPM listeners who are willing to be interviewed on the morning show that they could interview a different artist every day for a month.

Also, nobody likes the Bagatelle Brunch show, and that show doesn't fit the BPM format. It would be more appropriate for a station like KTU.
People also hate the repetitive dance songs and pop remixes on BPM.

Referring to Tony's thoughts about the different schools of dance fans, the majority of BPM's fans are the core dance fans who pay for satellite radio so they can hear cutting edge dance music on BPM and Area. The casual dance fan would be turned off by the pure dance of BPM, but they would likely keep BPM as one of the presets and listen when they're in the mood. That's why people were happy when The Beat and BPM were separate. The casual dance fans had their familiar stuff on The Beat, and the core dance fans chose to subscribe to XM for BPM.
Now that 3G is widespread, and many people have data service on their phones, there are many more Internet stations for all kinds of dance fans to choose from, you're not stuck with having to subscribe to satellite to get the latest dance music on the car radio.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I really enjoy listening to BPM. Can it sound better? Yes. But the same can be said about many stations across the nation.

However, I do agree with you on Bagatelle Brunch Show. The show sux and it doesn't belong on BPM.
 
instigator said:
JP...many of the pop titles are the ones in heavy rotation..let's be fair. I don't have a huge problem with BPM but some of their remixes are just ridiculous like Hard by Rihanna the song doesn't need a sped up mix and it seems like I hear more of these tracks then a lot of the ones you mentioned. It's not a terrible station it just could be a lot better.

Dancerev889...my point was some people do subscribe to sirius just for BPM (just as some do for Howard Stern or commercial free music) So I feel the product they are programing should be targeted for the audience listening...believe it or not many people want a "pure " dance station. Maybe when XM and serius merged theyn should have kept both of their dance stations on ..one for more trance house and one for more pop remixes..I'm just saying people do tune out because of this. Yes I know they will tune back in...because they don't have many other options to listen to.
As for the Party stop postering they took over Pulse's frequency to try to get their audience ,a "dance " audience.


I pose a different question. I have been following these boards for about two years..why are "the usual suspects" so critical and all knowing about other people's posts? It seems like they talk with authority and always stick up for each other when sometimes their views are clearly wrong. Look everybody has something to learn here and it seems like the dance fans are extremely passionate as are the dance -haters...my point is a couple of the programmers , promotion people that are here speak down and are quite rude when they answer other peoples posts. Some people that post have no experience in radio so lighten up on them they may just love radio or dance radio. Everyones view on what a dance station should play is different....listen , reply ...but stop being "all knowing" unless you truely are.
Click to expand...

Its not being all knowing its called common sense. I respect John Parkers view point more than most. He has worked in the business for a long time and understands the radio business. The biggest issue is that fact that their are very few posts on here about what positive things are going within the genre. Its always this station sucks or this isnt dance music. People want to know why dance music isnt so accepted, here is a good reason why. Its getting really old to keep seeing the same bashing posts about the same stations. Thats why I keep saying if you dont like it, dont listen.
 
Tony Santiago said:
First everyone, BREATHE IN, and BREATHE OUT! :)

First, Nick....if you CLAIM to be a dance fan, then why do you start these bash posts all the time? You do it with PartyFM often enough in here. You also did it to some HD2 station in Baltimore, that I had to call BRETT out to answer it since I was getting rather sick and tired of it (to which he didn't dignify it with a response, and rightfully so). And now you do it here. You really do amaze me, and not in a positive manner. :mad:

But since the topic has been brought up, we do have to call things out here regarding the resentment because I was very critical too. Still am, but looking at the recent playlist, BPM actually appears better than it was around the same time last year, post-merger. If BPM started out like this, then most of the core fans wouldn't complain. To which that is where the ANGST began.

Let's go back to history because somehow things may have been forgotten. When it was solely an XM thing, "BPM" was a very cutting edge dance station reaching out to the core fans that paid for the service along with other stations such as "The Move". XM had always catered to that music fan that wanted a bit of "edge". For those that wanted to get more of a "radio" feel for music, Sirius was around for that, which is why you had a station like "The Beat", which was good for those casual listeners. Yet at the same time when something NEW came out, "The Beat" was late in the game for it. "Area" on Sirius, was a great station and yet I could also understand to some how it could be rather intimidating because of the ultra-progressive trance, EDM sounds. It was really TWO extremes on Sirius yet with XM, somehow they balanced it out.

Early on when BPM was kept for SiriusXM, they played a lot of 80's material. I remember being at last year's WMC wondering what the heck was going on. I did speak to Mike Abrams personally about it (since he was there) and the 80's material was eventually shifted out. Then "Bagatelle Brunch" came in, which to me sounds like a show for "transplanted hipsters entering NYC thinking they are 'kool kats', hanging at the Meatpacking District, yet are listening to Billy Joel on a dance station. See where I'm getting at here? Yet when it came to the fans speaking out about BPM on the Facebook boards, a lot of "games" were being played around in there which caused the fan anger to broil. I was on that board for quite a while with those games, until I decided it was better for me and for what I'm doing to not fall into that trap and work on the positivity of this music.

Point is, BPM WAS about the core fan base when it was launched. Guys like Blake Lawrence and Alan Freed KNEW what the fans wanted and programmed it in such a manner. I suppose in a lot of ways, the BPM (pre-11/08) to BPM (post-11/08) arguments hold similar "water" with Pulse vs. Party FM. While I don't blame ANYTHING that has happened with the station on Mike Abrams, Geronimo or Austin Kramer, clearly the Sirius philosophy had taken over BPM. While the station, according to the list JP provided actually appears to be good and I have few complaints about it, it still isn't close to the days prior to November 2008. Add to the fact that people are paying for this, they want something that they can't find on a "traditional" basis. Sirius helped take that away.

Honestly Brett, I have to call you out on that attitude "If you don't like it, don't listen". :-[ I think you have to give me SOME credit for trying to view things from BOTH the fan perspective and radio industry angles and being as fair-minded as possible. I can understand why Ke$ha appeared on BPM. She is MASS appeal, the hottest thing right now since Lady GaGa in the mindset of mainstream broadcasting and caters to the "casual" fan that make up the majority (as I had stated on another thread). Yet we go back to the history of BPM and perhaps understand why a core dance fan may be rather upset by this. While yes, as a programmer, it's your job to keep a station financially afloat based on the formatics of the music, at the same time you want to please ALL aspects of fans with such formatics. That's why Joel Salkowitz was successful when he ran Hot 103/97 as well as Pulse 87. He knew that "balance" whereas to appeal to that casual crowd yet get at the core crowd evenly. In that sense a core dance fan would "tolerate" hearing a Sean Kingston or Chris Brown track on Pulse 87. Which is what is NOT happening with Party FM. And I GET IT, Vic and John need to keep the stations financially afloat but in the process of doing so, a large segment of the crowd is being alienated because of the dance/hip-hop infrastructure. They may be deleting posts on their board, but I have never heard anyone there say "if you don't like it, don't listen".

You are in a position of great responsibility to present this music to the masses in your region and people respect you for that. You have to concern yourself with the formatics of your station along with the brand of "politics" that goes with it. I know. Sometimes these arguments can be repetitive. But at the same time, it is up to you (and all of us that love this music in such power) to help "guide" and "mentor". To slam on it just isolates and we can't have that. Makes us all look weak.

Maybe this is me, but when I do my one hour show, I WANT to hear what the listeners have to say. In fact, I need to. :) Maybe my hands aren't as "tied" as others, but I want to give my listeners the VERY best because for what I do, I do it for them as well as the growth of our music. Which is something, because there may be a lot of tracks that people don't know, but they LOVE it because of how it is presented. Okay, maybe philosophy doesn't "pay the bills" but it's still something I stand strong on. And if a listener doesn't like something, I'll investigate it and poof...gone. Likewise, if a listener wants MORE of something, I go for it. Yes, I know....programmers do this too, but I have to get back to that one thread on "politics" a while back ago. Heck, if I can create that "engine" for you guys to "earn" something, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I envy hip-hop for that :).

I hate the position I'm in right now because I am stuck between a "rock and a hard place". I understand WHY Party FM has to program the way they do, and I'm still "holding out" for that "big picture" where they can split the signal for 87.7 to become MORE dance intensive, so as to allow 105.3 to become more "rhythmic", to cover that Eastern portion of Suffolk County that doesn't have a hip-hop/rhythmic outlet. I'm not bashing Vic or John in that regards. However, from a dance music fans point of view, I can understand their concerns regarding the "formatics" of the station, especially that some folks in the area do remember Party 105.3 as a dance station when Andre Ferro ran it and being in "shock" hearing the current version.

Pardon the length of this. John Parker did put a good list up, and in comparison to where we were LAST YEAR with BPM, this is an "improvement". We are NEVER going to get that old BPM back, unfortunately. :( But you have Radio Danz, which comes darn close for the core fans. Perhaps my hope is that we can get more fans that are casual to become core. That takes time, and molding with the music. But it's worth it.

Thank you for hearing me out. And Nick, I love ya kid, but you gotta STOP starting new posts with these negative vibes.

Seriously.
Click to expand...


Can me out on what? Speaking my opinion on the situation? These boards have become a whine fest over the past year and for what reason? The ironic thing, is its always about a New York station or satellite. I rarely heard any negative comments about any other station. If it wasnt KTU, it was The Beat, if it wasnt the Beat it was Party.

Then there is the issue about what is dance music and what isnt. There isnt a pure dance station on the air right now, by everyones definition. Look at the playlists for yourself. They are loaded with pop remixes or records that most on this board would consider hip-hop. And why is this? Maybe its for a thing called mass appeal.

This past August there was such a good vibe at the DJ expo about where this genre was heading. But then you come on these message boards and you think your best friend died.

Again show me where Party ever said they were a dance station? They are rhythmic station, just like my station.

If you want to see what the dance stations are doing across the country check this website on a regular basis http://www.fmqbproductions.net/dance/index.html . You might get a better understanding on what is going on all the stations.
 

Can me out on what? Speaking my opinion on the situation? These boards have become a whine fest over the past year and for what reason? The ironic thing, is its always about a New York station or satellite. I rarely heard any negative comments about any other station. If it wasnt KTU, it was The Beat, if it wasnt the Beat it was Party.

Then there is the issue about what is dance music and what isnt. There isnt a pure dance station on the air right now, by everyones definition. Look at the playlists for yourself. They are loaded with pop remixes or records that most on this board would consider hip-hop. And why is this? Maybe its for a thing called mass appeal.

This past August there was such a good vibe at the DJ expo about where this genre was heading. But then you come on these message boards and you think your best friend died.

Again show me where Party ever said they were a dance station? They are rhythmic station, just like my station.

If you want to see what the dance stations are doing across the country check this website on a regular basis http://www.fmqbproductions.net/dance/index.html . You might get a better understanding on what is going on all the stations.

[/quote]

Brett,

I'll answer you and I won't hold back.

To answer why New York.....WE ONLY HAVE 5 TERRESTRIAL STATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY and the majority of people that post here are from the New York area. I wish there were dance stations in the majority of the radio markets out there where more people can comment on those stations. But this is what we're dealt with right now.

I did answer your thoughts about mass appeal, specifically Ke$ha on BPM. I do realize that the "casual" fan is the majority and you have to cater to that. I also believe that with enough exposure, you can also get people to open up with newer music that isn't heard much elsewhere. That's what I do on Urban Latino Radio and me and DJ Rio Lopez have constantly gained a following. People may not necessarily KNOW what I'm playing but love how all the sounds blend in together.

Regarding the DJ Expo in August, hey, I felt good about things! We never talked (actually we DON'T talk....whatever I suppose) but you did see me there.

We still had Pulse 87 and Energy 92.7 around along with your station, Super 91.7, C 89.5 and Vibe 94.5. Just when things look promising, then poof. Are you going to blame the demise of these stations on dance music fans whining? You wanna blame ME for starting up a coalition regarding this, raising awareness along with the harsh criticisms which is why these posts are so "newyorkcentric"? Let's put it out there. I've taken enough punches from the "haters" and if I have no choice I'll take it from those that are on the same "team".

Honestly, I don't think people are looking for a PURE dance station per se. I'll even go as far as to say that people CAN deal with the pop-remixes or a sporadic rhythmic track here and there as long as the playlist is still dance music dominant. I believe the FMQB charts is representative of that. And I think people can be acceptant of that.

See, I do agree with you that Party never said that they were a dance station. But in the mindset of most folks, being that they took 87.7, with some folks knowing how things were in the past with Andre running things, the perception of what Party 105 was to what PartyFM is today that's letting the dance fans down. Add TO the fact that Vic Latino was the BIG GUY when he was on 'KTU as well as 95.3 Party in Orlando back in the late 90's/early 00's, people still have the perception of him as the big dance music guy. He still is, but the hip-hop has become a shock in that regards.

You know I want things to grow and I DO hate these negative postings as well. I don't start them and a lot of them that go up don't have ALL of the facts right. But I'm going to do something about it in here. I'm going to start up some positive, constructive postings and hope that people take part in those discussions.

I'll commit to change in here for the better. Brett, will you join me? (olive branch sticking out).... ;D
 
Tony Santiago said:

Can me out on what? Speaking my opinion on the situation? These boards have become a whine fest over the past year and for what reason? The ironic thing, is its always about a New York station or satellite. I rarely heard any negative comments about any other station. If it wasnt KTU, it was The Beat, if it wasnt the Beat it was Party.

Then there is the issue about what is dance music and what isnt. There isnt a pure dance station on the air right now, by everyones definition. Look at the playlists for yourself. They are loaded with pop remixes or records that most on this board would consider hip-hop. And why is this? Maybe its for a thing called mass appeal.

This past August there was such a good vibe at the DJ expo about where this genre was heading. But then you come on these message boards and you think your best friend died.

Again show me where Party ever said they were a dance station? They are rhythmic station, just like my station.

If you want to see what the dance stations are doing across the country check this website on a regular basis http://www.fmqbproductions.net/dance/index.html . You might get a better understanding on what is going on all the stations.
Click to expand...

Brett,

I'll answer you and I won't hold back.

To answer why New York.....WE ONLY HAVE 5 TERRESTRIAL STATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY and the majority of people that post here are from the New York area. I wish there were dance stations in the majority of the radio markets out there where more people can comment on those stations. But this is what we're dealt with right now.

I did answer your thoughts about mass appeal, specifically Ke$ha on BPM. I do realize that the "casual" fan is the majority and you have to cater to that. I also believe that with enough exposure, you can also get people to open up with newer music that isn't heard much elsewhere. That's what I do on Urban Latino Radio and me and DJ Rio Lopez have constantly gained a following. People may not necessarily KNOW what I'm playing but love how all the sounds blend in together.

Regarding the DJ Expo in August, hey, I felt good about things! We never talked (actually we DON'T talk....whatever I suppose) but you did see me there.

We still had Pulse 87 and Energy 92.7 around along with your station, Super 91.7, C 89.5 and Vibe 94.5. Just when things look promising, then poof. Are you going to blame the demise of these stations on dance music fans whining? You wanna blame ME for starting up a coalition regarding this, raising awareness along with the harsh criticisms which is why these posts are so "newyorkcentric"? Let's put it out there. I've taken enough punches from the "haters" and if I have no choice I'll take it from those that are on the same "team".

Honestly, I don't think people are looking for a PURE dance station per se. I'll even go as far as to say that people CAN deal with the pop-remixes or a sporadic rhythmic track here and there as long as the playlist is still dance music dominant. I believe the FMQB charts is representative of that. And I think people can be acceptant of that.

See, I do agree with you that Party never said that they were a dance station. But in the mindset of most folks, being that they took 87.7, with some folks knowing how things were in the past with Andre running things, the perception of what Party 105 was to what PartyFM is today that's letting the dance fans down. Add TO the fact that Vic Latino was the BIG GUY when he was on 'KTU as well as 95.3 Party in Orlando back in the late 90's/early 00's, people still have the perception of him as the big dance music guy. He still is, but the hip-hop has become a shock in that regards.

You know I want things to grow and I DO hate these negative postings as well. I don't start them and a lot of them that go up don't have ALL of the facts right. But I'm going to do something about it in here. I'm going to start up some positive, constructive postings and hope that people take part in those discussions.

I'll commit to change in here for the better. Brett, will you join me? (olive branch sticking out).... ;D

[/quote]

Tony, I am saying anything negative towards you. I am going after all the negative comments that have been on here. Commit to what change? I like things the way they are. Could they be better of course, but things have gotten better. I wish everyone would see the positive thats going on right now in the music industry and the fact that Top 40 is playing this genre
 
I promise from now on not to bash any stations that play dance at all, even if they are an HD2 in the middle of Wyoming that plays 10 hip hop songs for one dance song. But my whole gripe is that stations shouldn't try to be mass-appeal on a platform that isn't adopted by the masses. Less than 1% of the population has an HD radio, a fraction of that actually uses their HD radio, there's no point trying to program a mass appeal rhythmic station on an HD2 that isn't heard by 99.5% of the population, with 75% of its music that can be heard on other HD1 stations in the market. Same thing goes for the 87.7 signal in New York City, while it can be heard on most radios, its signal is weak and there are 4 other full-signaled stations that play ~50% of 87.7's music. As for BPM, they are a satellite station with paying subscribers. I like BPM's current playlist, but I understand people's frustration with pop remixes on BPM that are heard elsewhere (albeit not remixed), and satellite radio positions itself as an alternative to traditional mass-appeal radio by having stations for every niche. There's no use alienating the people that like dance music who seek out a station that isn't on the same playing field as other stations. No one will want to endure static on 87.7 or dropouts on HD2 (plus the expense of buying an HD radio) or a satellite subscription to hear the same music that can be heard on traditional FM stations. I'd love a PartyFM, a Mix 106.5 HD2, or especially a BPM format on a full signal major market FM station above 92. But I just see wasted potential by having those formats where they are now, alienating core dance fans who seek out the non-traditional location for the station, but are not able to attract the numbers of listeners that a traditional FM station can, simply because of the added obstacle listeners must endure to hear the station. You don't see me, or other people, bashing Z88.9, Super 91.7, C89.5, 94.5 The Vibe, the late Pulse 87 or Energy 92.7, Wired 96.5 HD2, Club Fusion HD2, any mixshow on a CHR station, any Internet dance station, etc.

In this thread, I was not bashing BPM, I was pointing out other people bashing BPM. I like its current playlist, it doesn't overplay the pop remixes.

I was wondering why Sirius XM doesn't just have the Ke$ha interview on one of their dedicated CHR channels than on the dance channel, since it would be a better fit for the audience of the CHR stations than for the audience of BPM. I did not see one positive response on the Facebook page about the Ke$ha interview. I bet that if they announced an interview with Kim Sozzi, there would be no negative response. I also was pointing out that people are bashing BPM playing pop remixes. I personally don't mind pop remixes, some of my favorite dance songs from the past year were pop remixes. But there are some people that can't stand pop remixes and are vocal about it, similar to how I can't stand hip hop. BPM doesn't need to be mass appeal since it's a satellite station.

I too hate seeing people bashing a dance station. People who pay for Sirius XM just for BPM who hate the current format will likely stop subscribing, and then BPM's audience will change, prompting BPM to add more pop remixes. Why can't they just have Mike program both The Beat and BPM, even if they have to reduce the bandwidth for all channels negligibly to add the extra channel.

When satellite radio was first launched, there was no way to get live Internet radio in cars. But now, it's affordable to subscribe to a data plan and stream any Internet station. When 3G and 4G become more widely adopted, the people who want a pure dance station won't subscribe to satellite, but instead stream an Internet station on their phones. The advantage of Internet radio is that anyone can start a station and it can play any kind of music. And they are all free, the only cost is the cost of the Internet connection.
 
Dancerev889 said:
Tony, I am saying anything negative towards you. I am going after all the negative comments that have been on here. Commit to what change? I like things the way they are. Could they be better of course, but things have gotten better. I wish everyone would see the positive thats going on right now in the music industry and the fact that Top 40 is playing this genre
Click to expand...

You are or you're NOT saying anything negative towards me? :D (joking)

I'm not saying that things aren't good to a certain extent now. But as things are getting better, things could even push further and the fact of the matter is no one should rest on their laurels on it. We HAVE to keep pushing :)

There are times that 92.3 Now here in NYC plays some dance on occasion and that's good. However, my "grand vision" would be to go back to the disco era or the mid 80's/early 90's era when dance music WAS king. Where stations like a 'KTU (Disco 92) had 9's and 10's in their books (and that isn't an impossible feat considering that Lite FM in New York (WLTW) scored a 9.0 their last book...albeit that was mainly due to their holiday format).

To Nick, I do get what Brett is saying here. It HAS to take a certain mass appeal to get more done in the long run. So people talk about Ke$ha. And to the majority of folks on the "casual", she is "dance". And if somehow she can help "bridge" those young girls/CHR fans to want more of the dance product we'll take it. EXACTLY like it was in 2008 with Lady GaGa. I want to see our music move forward and we have to allow this sort of thing to happen in order for that growth to occur. Granted, I won't go to the next website for a Ke$ha download, lol but we'll see if things pay off.
 
These B.tch fests on here are getting old and we are all hurting dance by doing it.. You know I support the school stations, and net stations the most,,, but we still need stations like Vibe vegas and YES,, Even KTU,, its just play what your supposed to.. If your not pure dance, then fine,, play the pop and hip hop and I wont complain, but if im paying for pure dance, then thats what we deserve... BPM sucks as a prescrption service dance station,, but if every city had a BPM station on FM then i wouldnt complain. I would be happy with a KTU in every major city for that matter.. or even more part time dance stations like Z88.9 Jersey,, dance factory Chicago, and WBDG Indianapolis... but :mad: IM DONE........For now anyway. Where's the tylenol
 
Mid West Clubber...you are SO right!

Brett, I want to apologize RIGHT NOW. You know what, you are right...."if you don't like it, don't listen". And look what happened here in NYC.

I'll fight for another station...no doubt, but I also think that WE as a community have to change to become more supportive and less vindictive. We need for us to do that and at the same time, let you PD's and radio staff do what you have to without any interference for us.

We will still stand strong for our music. But maybe now this is the time that we let the radio industry know that we'll leave things be for the sake of growth of our music.

Pass that along to Will Calder for me. He knows what this is about.
 
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