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dance in 2005

R

Renegade_X

having just spend several months ripping my entire CD collection (well, most of them), i have to ask. What's with dance?

I've got an 80 GB HD full of dance now, and when I cue it up in Winamp, I'm happily assaulted by massive tracks. Du Nuit, Fragma, Saffron Hill, Sophie Ellis. Massive dance songs, songs that will live on my iPod until it's obsolete. Piles of good material.

Then I look at today...and I think, ugh. Sure, there is some good music, but is anything going to stand and last? Or are these disposable hits?

So, is this just me aging? I'd hate to think I'm living in the past, but I dunno, for the last 8 months or so, outside of a few big songs, nothing seems like that "kick ass beat"
 
> having just spend several months ripping my entire CD
> collection (well, most of them), i have to ask. What's
> with dance?
>
> I've got an 80 GB HD full of dance now, and when I cue it up
> in Winamp, I'm happily assaulted by massive tracks. Du
> Nuit, Fragma, Saffron Hill, Sophie Ellis. Massive dance
> songs, songs that will live on my iPod until it's obsolete.
> Piles of good material.
>
> Then I look at today...and I think, ugh. Sure, there is
> some good music, but is anything going to stand and last?
> Or are these disposable hits?
>
> So, is this just me aging? I'd hate to think I'm living in
> the past, but I dunno, for the last 8 months or so, outside
> of a few big songs, nothing seems like that "kick ass beat"
>

Perhaps you are either getting older... so the music is not as appealing to you like it was back then... or you are getting sick of the "genre" that you once loved. This is what has happened to me. I used to be a total trance head.. and now Im a total house head... and I have found a lot of kick ass house tunes that gives me the feeling that I once had with trance.<P ID="signature">______________
www.1Club.FM INTERNET RADIO STATION
30 Channels... 1 Club DOT FM</P></P>
 
Most are disposable, you're not aging, it's the truth. The last memorable dance hits occured back in the latter 90s. Barring Fragma, Sylver and a few others. While there's some great stuff lately, not much. But then think about the Rhythmic stuff. How memorable is Ludacris' "Southern Hospitality"? It's all relevant and common to all music.

> having just spend several months ripping my entire CD
> collection (well, most of them), i have to ask. What's
> with dance?
>
> I've got an 80 GB HD full of dance now, and when I cue it up
> in Winamp, I'm happily assaulted by massive tracks. Du
> Nuit, Fragma, Saffron Hill, Sophie Ellis. Massive dance
> songs, songs that will live on my iPod until it's obsolete.
> Piles of good material.
>
> Then I look at today...and I think, ugh. Sure, there is
> some good music, but is anything going to stand and last?
> Or are these disposable hits?
>
> So, is this just me aging? I'd hate to think I'm living in
> the past, but I dunno, for the last 8 months or so, outside
> of a few big songs, nothing seems like that "kick ass beat"
>
 
Maybe its just the IPOD itself. You know whats on there and theres no element of surprise. Thats why radio to me is the best source for music, to discover songs you wouldn't of thought of. As well as mixshows putting a new spin on songs.

Or maybe your just getting old. But whats does getting old have to do with not liking dance music? Are you saying older people can't keep enjoying dance music and we all just outgrow it? I don't think so.
 
> having just spend several months ripping my entire CD
> collection (well, most of them), i have to ask. What's
> with dance?
>
> I've got an 80 GB HD full of dance now, and when I cue it up
> in Winamp, I'm happily assaulted by massive tracks. Du
> Nuit, Fragma, Saffron Hill, Sophie Ellis. Massive dance
> songs, songs that will live on my iPod until it's obsolete.
> Piles of good material.
>
> Then I look at today...and I think, ugh. Sure, there is
> some good music, but is anything going to stand and last?
> Or are these disposable hits?

I hear tunes when streaming (mostly in Europe since these are the only stations I'm getting without frequent reception breakup, especially SMK in Germany) that I've never heard before. IMO some of them are good, some so-so, and others great. Will enough others think the same ones are "great" and therefore contribute to them becoming "hits" that "stand and last"? I don't know, but I'm definitely enjoying them and that's what counts with me.

BTW I get a kick out of hearing dance remakes of old 60s, 70s and 80s mainstream hit tunes. Heard one today by Milk & Sugar "Let the Sun Shine In" - guess you'd say the original is lasting through the remake. True, but the dancing is far more fun with the remakes IMO. But there are more original dance - house, trance, techno, and whatever subgenre term you want to include that's energetic - than remakes of old mainstream hits.

>
> So, is this just me aging? I'd hate to think I'm living in
> the past, but I dunno, for the last 8 months or so, outside
> of a few big songs, nothing seems like that "kick ass beat"
>

I don't think age should have anything to do with liking good energetic dance music. While I only "found" this music a little over 5 years ago, I was then likely far older than you are now. And I can probably dance you under the table ;>) If I don't like what's playing on the streams, I tolerate the current play or switch depending on how bad it is. But because I can still hear some *real* dance music (new and old) by streaming, I have some confidence that this genre will continue and even flourish.<P ID="signature">______________
**Kitty Antonik Wakfer
MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
</P>
 
> having just spend several months ripping my entire CD
> collection (well, most of them), i have to ask. What's
> with dance?
>
> I've got an 80 GB HD full of dance now, and when I cue it up
> in Winamp, I'm happily assaulted by massive tracks. Du
> Nuit, Fragma, Saffron Hill, Sophie Ellis. Massive dance
> songs, songs that will live on my iPod until it's obsolete.
> Piles of good material.
>
> Then I look at today...and I think, ugh. Sure, there is
> some good music, but is anything going to stand and last?
> Or are these disposable hits?
>
> So, is this just me aging? I'd hate to think I'm living in
> the past, but I dunno, for the last 8 months or so, outside
> of a few big songs, nothing seems like that "kick ass beat"
>

Well I reckon it depends on where you're looking/what you're into.... IMO, being a House junkie who pretty much overlooks everything state-side, I've noticed quite a few "gems" coming out recently since I look to France, UK, etc., for music :)
 
I don't really think it's so much an issue of great dance music not being available - it's certainly out there, but getting to it has *really* become a chore. In a day and age where everyone and their mother has a label of some sort (or can easily start one), the sheer volume of dance records being made is staggering at times.

I had a conversation about the "good ol' days" with a DJ buddy of mine not long ago and we both came to the same conclusion - a decade or so ago, either of us could walk into our local spot to buy vinyl, pull damn near any new release out of the record bin, and be treated to a bona-fide floor-filler more than half the time. Hardly the case today; seems like you really have to wade through the dreck to get to the gems more often than not. Disposable hits are a fact of life for any genre of music; dance music has had them all along, but do I agree that the toss-away factor has taken a bit of an upswing in recent years.

I think that the aging process does play a role to some extent; music inevitably factors into personal nostalgia, so there's always going to be older tunes you hang on to, no matter how good or bad they really are. That, and tastes just change - at 31, I still listen to most of the same types of music that I did when I was 21, but there's a number of genres that I used to really be into (drum & bass, hip hop, among others) that frankly do zilch for me these days.

- M<P ID="signature">______________
Marcus McBride
Supermixx/XM
Select Mix</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Metro on 07/02/05 06:55 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Well, it's not my iPod, I usually only play new music on it, and it's full of all genres of music.

I was looking back at the strength of Sylver, Fragma, Sophie Ellis Bextor, etc. Even some of the "one hit wonders" of the time had incredibly good production on the music. Just looked at the dance radio charts, and if you take out the pop remixes, you're left with Narcotic Thrust and a few others. Not a bad song, but certainly not something you're going to spin as a recurrent 5 years from now. Or Jenn Cuneta. Does that song have legs? I really like it, but will it be around in 5 years? i'm wondering if there just isn't the investment in the production of the music as there once was (and production IS everything). I can see DHT lasting.

Someone commented on the 80's remixes. I don't particularily like them (but that's not a secret). The whole 80's thing has gone WAY overboard, with bands sounding the same. The new Global DJ's sounds like the old Global DJ's. I just turn it off. Same for the second release of California Dreamin. Why not just label it part 2? In my opinion, the only two songs that are big in the new 80's dance era were Eric Pridz, Call on Me, and Love Freekz, Shine.

And for you programmers, if you do have a chart, please RSS enable it. Ican then have the chart fed to my computer rather than checking over 30 charts every week to see what's new.

Maybe its just the IPOD itself. You know whats on there and
> theres no element of surprise. Thats why radio to me is the
> best source for music, to discover songs you wouldn't of
> thought of. As well as mixshows putting a new spin on songs.
>
>
> Or maybe your just getting old. But whats does getting old
> have to do with not liking dance music? Are you saying older
> people can't keep enjoying dance music and we all just
> outgrow it? I don't think so.
>
 
Um, DHT's Listen To Your Heart is an 80s cover.

> Well, it's not my iPod, I usually only play new music on it,
> and it's full of all genres of music.
>
> I was looking back at the strength of Sylver, Fragma, Sophie
> Ellis Bextor, etc. Even some of the "one hit wonders" of
> the time had incredibly good production on the music. Just
> looked at the dance radio charts, and if you take out the
> pop remixes, you're left with Narcotic Thrust and a few
> others. Not a bad song, but certainly not something you're
> going to spin as a recurrent 5 years from now. Or Jenn
> Cuneta. Does that song have legs? I really like it, but
> will it be around in 5 years? i'm wondering if there just
> isn't the investment in the production of the music as there
> once was (and production IS everything). I can see DHT
> lasting.
>
> Someone commented on the 80's remixes. I don't
> particularily like them (but that's not a secret). The
> whole 80's thing has gone WAY overboard, with bands sounding
> the same. The new Global DJ's sounds like the old Global
> DJ's. I just turn it off. Same for the second release of
> California Dreamin. Why not just label it part 2? In my
> opinion, the only two songs that are big in the new 80's
> dance era were Eric Pridz, Call on Me, and Love Freekz,
> Shine.
>
> And for you programmers, if you do have a chart, please RSS
> enable it. Ican then have the chart fed to my computer
> rather than checking over 30 charts every week to see what's
> new.
>
> Maybe its just the IPOD itself. You know whats on there and
> > theres no element of surprise. Thats why radio to me is
> the
> > best source for music, to discover songs you wouldn't of
> > thought of. As well as mixshows putting a new spin on
> songs.
> >
> >
> > Or maybe your just getting old. But whats does getting old
>
> > have to do with not liking dance music? Are you saying
> older
> > people can't keep enjoying dance music and we all just
> > outgrow it? I don't think so.
> >
>
 
> Um, DHT's Listen To Your Heart is an 80s cover.
>
Yes, I'm aware of that. I think DHT is a good pop song, I'm happy it's vaulted dance music back on the chart. But I don't think it's a great song per se. And I do think, that it's disposable and will be forgotten.

My pop sensibilities (assuming I have them) says DHT will do very well. The cynical clubhead side of me sees it as another band-aid patch to a scene that's mired in mud. It's not the "bomb" of all dance songs, or even up there. And again, my apologies to JP and Robbins. Not trying to rain on the parade, just stating my opinions.
 
None taken. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. :) We are well aware of what the song is.

As for dance in 2005, we used to say that dance was a faceless genre of music where middle america didn't know, or care, who these artists were. Now, it's well on it's way to becoming a voiceless genre. Tracks are being made with very little in the way of vocals, quality lyrics or any kind of structure that appeals to anyone outside of the clubs.

Bring back the song. Bring back the voices. And bring back pop styled productions and we will all have hits again. I've always said, give me a 3 minute dance radio hit and I can make mixes for the clubs. But give me a ten minute club mix and the chances are I can't cut it to 3 minutes for the radio because they probaly left out the vocals.

Just my opinion...

jp

> > Um, DHT's Listen To Your Heart is an 80s cover.
> >
> Yes, I'm aware of that. I think DHT is a good pop song, I'm
> happy it's vaulted dance music back on the chart. But I
> don't think it's a great song per se. And I do think, that
> it's disposable and will be forgotten.
>
> My pop sensibilities (assuming I have them) says DHT will do
> very well. The cynical clubhead side of me sees it as
> another band-aid patch to a scene that's mired in mud. It's
> not the "bomb" of all dance songs, or even up there. And
> again, my apologies to JP and Robbins. Not trying to rain
> on the parade, just stating my opinions.
>
 
That's a good point John. I think there are tracks that can be vocal-free, but they are the minority. There aren't alot of "Children" or "Traffic" out there.

Of all the 80's remakes DHT has performed the best. I suspect that has everything to do with the fact it has vocals. It's not someone looping a rehashed 80's track, it's someone actually singing a song. And look back, BT - Simply Being Loved had real vocals, so did DJ Sammy - Heaven, and Modjo, and Kylie Minoque...etc. There are examples of just of looped vocals, notably Better Off Alone...really just a trance song with vocals. But that song was one of a kind.

Great dance songs don't always make for great club songs. Problem is, radio & even the artists don't get it. A while back I came across this really solid indie dance track. It was 8 minutes long, so I mailed the producer and asked if he could do a radio edit. I explained to him that people listening on the radio don't want to hear 7 minute songs...and if the person hates the song, they won't tolerate 7 minutes of what they don't like. His reply was "oh well, who cares what radio people think, they aren't my real fans". And that comment made me realize, it's why he's still and indie artist....and likely always will be.

And that attitude is far to common in this genre.





None taken. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. :) We
> are well aware of what the song is.
>
> As for dance in 2005, we used to say that dance was a
> faceless genre of music where middle america didn't know, or
> care, who these artists were. Now, it's well on it's way to
> becoming a voiceless genre. Tracks are being made with very
> little in the way of vocals, quality lyrics or any kind of
> structure that appeals to anyone outside of the clubs.
>
> Bring back the song. Bring back the voices. And bring back
> pop styled productions and we will all have hits again.
> I've always said, give me a 3 minute dance radio hit and I
> can make mixes for the clubs. But give me a ten minute club
> mix and the chances are I can't cut it to 3 minutes for the
> radio because they probaly left out the vocals.
>
> Just my opinion...
>
> jp
>
> > > Um, DHT's Listen To Your Heart is an 80s cover.
> > >
> > Yes, I'm aware of that. I think DHT is a good pop song,
> I'm
> > happy it's vaulted dance music back on the chart. But I
> > don't think it's a great song per se. And I do think,
> that
> > it's disposable and will be forgotten.
> >
> > My pop sensibilities (assuming I have them) says DHT will
> do
> > very well. The cynical clubhead side of me sees it as
> > another band-aid patch to a scene that's mired in mud.
> It's
> > not the "bomb" of all dance songs, or even up there. And
> > again, my apologies to JP and Robbins. Not trying to rain
>
> > on the parade, just stating my opinions.
> >
>
 
> > Um, DHT's Listen To Your Heart is an 80s cover.
> >
> Yes, I'm aware of that. I think DHT is a good pop song, I'm
> happy it's vaulted dance music back on the chart. But I
> don't think it's a great song per se. And I do think, that
> it's disposable and will be forgotten.
>
> My pop sensibilities (assuming I have them) says DHT will do
> very well. The cynical clubhead side of me sees it as
> another band-aid patch to a scene that's mired in mud. It's
> not the "bomb" of all dance songs, or even up there. And
> again, my apologies to JP and Robbins. Not trying to rain
> on the parade, just stating my opinions.
>
WOW; this topic keeps on,every week or so;one would think reality might have set in already.By the way'mired in mud" is wrong;based on retail sales and total cross over airplay for 05,'quicksand' seems more appropriate than mud,as mud is easier to extricate oneself from than dance's current situation.
http://liquidmusicinc.com/artist.php?id=76
 
Hey John, did anyone in the States sign Jean Roch "Can You Feel It" ? It's a crossover House/Pop tune. It has US appeal b/c of the Fatman Scoop style yelling, and the female vocals aren't too over the top Diva-ish (which I think is a good thing).
It's still getting a lot of airplay in places like Brazil, and in Mediterrenean countries.

I think there's actually a growing trend back towards more radio friendsly Vocal Dance. Fortunately for me I don't necessarily look for vocals, but they are definitely out there.
 
Perhaps your music tastes are changing, and you therefore feel less of a connection with many of the newer Dance releases.
I tend to agree with Metro - there's plenty of great Dance out there (with or without vocals), it's just that there's so many releases out there right now. It's hard to sift through it all.
Dance trends tend to repeat themselves, as do Dance formulas. A decade ago you had great tunes by the likes of Culture Beat and Snap, but you also had a MASSIVE amount of releases going for that same exact style. Some of those other acts/producers were good, others were pitiful. Or think back to Robin S "Show Me Love" with those simple House music chords. There were so many House songs at the time with a very similar sound.

Anyways, if you're looking for good currents hitting the clubs right now then check out the following pages for a good start:

http://www.dmcupdate.com/charts/charts.asp?id=302&IssueID=136

http://www.public-propaganda.de:808...format=ddc.htm&-max=40&-sortfield=PLATZ&-find

http://www.idp.nl/online/charts/


If you're looking for good Dance songs with radio edits, then just check out my list of European Dance stations:

http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=419373&Board=streaming
 
Well CHRles, I'd reckon I'm not hearing it then. And I am refering to new mainstream dance music, now what Judge Jules is playing. I just find the UK and American charts really devoid of anything that's outstanding. I do find alot of great urban dance is available, Rhianna, Pussycat Dolls, Amerie, BEP & Natasha Beddingfield.

I just don't think that there is alot of powerhouse dance music. In the last few months, it all seems so disposable or it's remixes of 80s stuff. Sometimes those remixes sound nearly exactly alike.

Perhaps your music tastes are changing, and you therefore
> feel less of a connection with many of the newer Dance
> releases.
> I tend to agree with Metro - there's plenty of great Dance
> out there (with or without vocals), it's just that there's
> so many releases out there right now. It's hard to sift
> through it all.
> Dance trends tend to repeat themselves, as do Dance
> formulas. A decade ago you had great tunes by the likes of
> Culture Beat and Snap, but you also had a MASSIVE amount of
> releases going for that same exact style. Some of those
> other acts/producers were good, others were pitiful. Or
> think back to Robin S "Show Me Love" with those simple House
> music chords. There were so many House songs at the time
> with a very similar sound.
>
> Anyways, if you're looking for good currents hitting the
> clubs right now then check out the following pages for a
> good start:
>
h> ttp://www.dmcupdate.com/charts/charts.asp?id=302&IssueID=136
>
>
http://www.public-propaganda.de:8080/charts/FMPro?-db=ddc> .fp3&-lay=CGI&-format=ddc.htm&-max=40&-sortfield=PLATZ&-find
>
>
> http://www.idp.nl/online/charts/
>
>
> If you're looking for good Dance songs with radio edits,
> then just check out my list of European Dance stations:
>
http> ://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=419373&Board=streaming
>
 
Amen! Vocals are essential for radio airplay. The funny thing is there are some great songs out there with great vocals. Reina's Forgive is a great example. QED's Islands, Dee Roberts Come Inside My World, Kelly Osbourne and the list could go on. Downloading music from Itunes is great but if you do not know a track is out there, you have to search it out. For some, that gets exhausting and over time they get tired of doing it. To me its amazing to see DHT get the airplay it has on the budget that it has compared to a major label. Give some of these tracks over the past year the same budget say Destiny's Child got and look what happens.
 
> Well CHRles, I'd reckon I'm not hearing it then. And I am
> refering to new mainstream dance music, now what Judge Jules
> is playing. I just find the UK and American charts really
> devoid of anything that's outstanding. I do find alot of
> great urban dance is available, Rhianna, Pussycat Dolls,
> Amerie, BEP & Natasha Beddingfield.
>
>
Jules and Toongy (Pete Tong) aren't playing Bananarama or United Nation, who both are big right now on the British Mainstream Dance chart (take another look).
Speaking of Pete Tong, I was really happy this weekend that on my Continental flight, the Dance channel was hosted by Pete. 2 hours of great, very current, House tunes. Deep Dish, Audio Bullys, and lots of other goodies.
FYI, I really don't think Pussycat Dolls are as good as many of the Dance tunes I'm into, but that's just my opinion ;)
 
Speaking of Tong

Have you heard of the new movie out called It's all gone Pete Tong? It's from Canadian director Mike Dowse that did FUBAR (a must see). Its' filmed in Ibiza and is about this mythical DJ know as Frankie B Wilde who goes deaf.

Don't Cha is a good song. Pon De Replay is a KICK ass song. The new Xavier Song has got me cranked again tho. I had to order the vinyl copy just to get it.
> >
> >
> Jules and Toongy (Pete Tong) aren't playing Bananarama or
> United Nation, who both are big right now on the British
> Mainstream Dance chart (take another look).
> Speaking of Pete Tong, I was really happy this weekend that
> on my Continental flight, the Dance channel was hosted by
> Pete. 2 hours of great, very current, House tunes. Deep
> Dish, Audio Bullys, and lots of other goodies.
> FYI, I really don't think Pussycat Dolls are as good as many
> of the Dance tunes I'm into, but that's just my opinion ;)
>
 
Don't know if it's been signed yet.

Also, as you stated, yes they are out there but most of the time they are not songs that would fly here for various reasons. As you know, we have had a couple of top vocalists signed with us that we didn't put out their follow up tracks because we didn't feel that they would work in the States. And so far, that has proven true.

jp


> Hey John, did anyone in the States sign Jean Roch "Can You
> Feel It" ? It's a crossover House/Pop tune. It has US appeal
> b/c of the Fatman Scoop style yelling, and the female vocals
> aren't too over the top Diva-ish (which I think is a good
> thing).
> It's still getting a lot of airplay in places like Brazil,
> and in Mediterrenean countries.
>
> I think there's actually a growing trend back towards more
> radio friendsly Vocal Dance. Fortunately for me I don't
> necessarily look for vocals, but they are definitely out
> there.
>
 
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