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Dance music on college stations

N

nd2023

Banned
How come most college stations don't play dance music? I can count on one hand the college stations that play the dance music we support. My college station (90.3 The Core-WVPH) has only a few hours of dance music every week, WSIA 88.9 had a 3 hour Saturday night mixshow, Z88.9's dance for a majority of each weekday, and the only other dance show I heard on a college station was 91.5 in Orlando at about 2 in the morning. There may be more, let us know about them. If you include all the stations that have at least one underground techno show, then I can count the stations on my fingers and toes. If college radio wants to be "different from all the other stations", play dance music! And play it a lot!
Part of the blame lies with College Music Journal (CMJ) which has little to no dance artists, and most college stations use CMJ as their exclusive source of music. CMJ doesn't even have a dance category, and the electronic music category has mostly chill music. College stations frown on playing commercial music, which is the music that the masses are familiar with. My station even frowns upon playing dance music on major labels like Robbins and Ultra. Instead, they play a song by a band that 5 people have heard of, followed by yet another song that not even the DJ knows about. They play local bands, which is good, but have little national recognition. And they constantly complain about having few listeners. Most college stations sound the same. It would be great if college stations just had dance music in their music libraries, and at least 1 DJ who supports dance. There's more to music than what CMJ spits out. Rock bands get a list of college stations to send their music to from CMJ, which welcomes them. They get played a few times on a few stations, and then fade into obscurity again after a few weeks. Dance artists don't send music to college stations because CMJ doesn't want them. Dance music doesn't fade into obscurity after a few weeks. College radio is supposed to be a testing ground for new music, how come dance music isn't there? We need more program directors like Brett from WBZC. It's ingrained in my head, if I want dance music on the radio, turn on Z88.9 before 6.
College stations don't get DJs who are into dance because they don't support the format. But I had been able to get 5 other dance DJs at my college station simply because I built up support for it, and my show gets plenty of listeners who are into the format, and my show is the only place on the local radio dial (besides straining to hear Pulse87) for dance music. I fantasized that if 90.3 The Core became a 24/7 dance station, you could drive from Connecticut/Long Island to Maryland and hear a dance station all the way.
 
Dance music on college stations isnt out of the ordinary. Drexel University plays dance music and they have a marathon every year. They are more underground and what you would hear in an underground club. My old station WDBK was a freestyle haven. When I came in the music we were playing were golds and not current. Will Calder ran a college station in the middle west. John Parker and several people in the industry worked at B91. I think DJ Ron, who runs the dance page on about.com, does a show on a college station in Nashville. I hate the phrase college radio. Mosts people think of a free for all and underground rock. College radio stations generally play a Triple A format. The problem with that format is the demographics do not fit college demographics. There is a post on the Philly board about WXPN and how the students dont even know they have a station. Students want to hear some that sounds familiar. Thats why we are rhythmic and not straight dance. I had a lot of negative comments made about me, when I decided to flip the format from Triple A. I got hate mail, emails, phones and several trips to the presidents office about it. Funny how two years later we have tripled our listening audience; went from 0 students to 75 students have gone through training; been a finalist for two different radio awards against not college stations, but commercial stations.

CMJ has its issues and just doesnt have to do with its BPM section. Its becoming less important every year. We subscribe and the only reason we do is for the specialty shows. I did get to see Junior Vasquez because of CMJ
 
I want to change that Nick. :) Because if commercial radio is going to take notice regarding dance music, we have to get MORE college stations out there to go that route.

I will be a panelist on Friday, March 7th at the IBS College Radio Convention at the Hotel Pennsylvania in NYC. I will be there at 8:15PM speaking on a symposium entitled "Electronica In Your Ear".

I DO want to make a push to get more college stations to accept dance music on their stations...if not as a full-fledged format, then at the very least more specialty shows. Brett (Dancerev) or John Parker, correct me if I am wrong here, because even though you run a college station/and are part of a record label, is it the fact that there is very limited information out there regarding labels wanting to send OUT material for college airplay and/or college radio stations that are willing to accept them? I do understand basic economics from a record label POV......why send material out for free if something WON'T be played or reported back?

Regarding CMJ, I think there is an "education" that has to be shown. I don't see it as a conspiracy that they DON'T have dance music charts there. I just think from what is being reported back..it's coming from PD's/MD's that mainly program rock/hip-hop but have NO idea about how to program dance because they don't KNOW dance music, especially being as varied with genres and subgenres as is. That's why guys like Brett, Glenn (Z88.9), Kris Henderson, Clint (WMPH), Richard Dalton (and past guys like Tank Martinez, who ran B-91 in New York City during the Hot 103/97 days) have to be commended....because they are AWARE of what is going on. And unfortunately you can count, by hand, how many guys out there that are running college dance/rhythmic stations.

Granted, I do realize that college radio is ALTERNATIVE, only in the sense of playing material commercial entities won't touch. It's amazing why a station would want to shut out a Robbins or Ultra when you consider the fact that the only song really getting anything commercial out there is Cascada and there are a ton of artists on those labels either getting VERY little to NO airplay, except from the 4 commercial outlets that are dance friendly and college stations like Z88.9 and C89.5 in Seattle. So, IMHO, dance music IS alternative....99.9 percent of it (and not just electronica material)! And regarding Cascada...okay, if a college station is apprehensive about "What Hurts The Most" since it has gained commercial appeal....then go on to the next Cascada track in advance (providing that John or someone there gives you the okay to get it out there).

A few things I plan on doing after the panel discussion...

1. Create a "database" of MD's/PD's of college radio stations that are WILLING to play dance music (all types...not just specific genres) AND will report back to the labels. That database will be placed on the coalition forum (at the beginning).

2. Talk to CMJ about creating a dance music section. If the interest is there from PD's/MD's that are interested in having such a chart out and CMJ is still unwilling, then we may just have to do this ourselves. But something WILL have to be done. Brett, Clint, Kris, Richard...I WILL need your help if I have to go this route.

3. Link up with more colleges to join up the coalition. We will pass along ANY of our resources to help out any college radio programmers in terms of dance music familiarity, artists that ARE ready to get the material to them at a moments notice....and special guidance to those that want to go full time dance formats. Though we WILL help out those running specialty shows.

4. Get the dance music labels to add their material push to the college radio stations. We have to get dance music beyond the clubs and DIRECT to the colleges. STILL pump the record pools...but add the mentality that college stations ARE another sort of "record pool" to get material out to the masses.

Nick, I feel your pain and I had it worse because I had WANTED to play house music (back in 1986) on my campus radio station but the politics held me back. That "anger" was always in me and I had wanted to channel that in a positive manner. That's why I created the New York Dance Music Coalition (was the Metro New York Dance Radio Coalition). It came from that bitterness and anger which I still feel today whenever I get the crap back from the "haters and doubters". But in this case, I want to go about this in a proactive and positive manner.

Nick....if you need material for your station, message me and I will get the word out.

Thanks,
 
Tony, I might go up Friday for the conference. Im not a huge fan of IBS but since we have a free pass to get in I might go. I was just looking at your panel and youre the only panelist there.

The big thing with college radio is look at who runs or advises most of the stations. They are usually professors that have been at the school for a long time, so when they first took over the music was hip. I am one of the exceptions to the rule. Then there are the stations that its just one big free for all. That is a huge problem. Broadcast stations are getting more expensive every year to run. Drexel University just got fined 10 grand because of their public file. When I was at DBK my budget was under 10 grand. I know Drexel does not have a big budget for the station. That goes along with CMJ. We subscribe to CMJ and its expensive if you are talking about college budgets. Its over 400 bucks to be a member. The one good thing about CMJ is that they use Mediaguide which is just like MediaBase and BDS.

Instead of trying to push something like CMJ, talk to the record labels. Robbins was very supportive of me at DBK. I thought I was going to have issues with them and they were one of the most supportive labels I dealt with. Talk to some of the subscription services, they might be willing to do a special rate to get their product in the hands of college stations. I know as a PD at a college owned station, these services are helpful because I am getting radio edits and not album cuts which may have explicit lyrics.
 
College and Dance Music, one of my favorite subjects!

To answer Nicks question (How come most college stations don't play dance music?) from my POV the answer is simple. Block programming and culture. As far as I'm aware, most college stations don't have a single format. They have block programming which allows students the opportunity to play the music that they love while learning the art of radio. It works to a degree because most students are a very diverse group of music lovers and to have one format would create a problem for most broadcasting problems. So block programming creates an easy sollution that makes the station fun for everyone. The culture part is that "it's always been that way" mentality that allows it to happen. Most colleges aren't looking for inventive ways to move forward. Instead, they are looking at the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" method of operation. To them, change might cause problems that they'd rather no deal with.

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As for my college experience at WKRB (B91) from 1985 - 1988, it was always a formated station. But it was also always a student run facility with a very understanding professor that allowed the students to go with their ideas. When I first got to the station it was a CHR. The purpose was to actually train students to be able to go off into the world of broadcasting and get a job. You had to start off doing news and then climb the ladder from there to get a show. Most college programs aren't like that.

In late 1985, the station decided to change to an all dance format. 2 of the most popular shows during the CHR years were the Friday and Saturday night request nights which featured new and classic dance tracks. And the college saw that there was a chance there for create a solid listenership in a niche but popular format. The upside for them was that if people listened they might be attracted to attend the school and be a part of the broadcasting program. We signed on the dance format about 30 days before Hot 103 did. And it was a major success even after Hot came on. A weekly CUME of 250,000 for a 10 Watt station.

A lot of radio stars came out of those days. People like Geronimo (Sirius), Speedy (Formerly of KTU), Tracey Cloherty (Hot 97 & K-Rock), Ralphie Marino (ex-KTU), not to mention the many that preceeded that switch. Like Kid Kelly (ex Z100 and now Sirius), Mike Abrams (XM), Stanley T Evans (Sirius), Spanky McFarlane (ex-Z100, R.I.P.) and so on.

Tony, Tank was actually my Music Director during my PD run there. He's an amazing dj, he taught me how to spin, and I'm still baffled why no station uses his talents in the mix.

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Enough of the time machine. There are lots of dance specialty shows on right now and CMJ, I believe, tracks a lot of them. The disconnect here is the thought that these shows will want to air the very same commercial dance tracks that are being played by dance radio across the land. I don't believe that they will. They will continue to play the underground dance music that they love and that's ok. If a station comes along, like Bretts, and decides they are going dance then a label would be foolish not to support it. We have to take every opportunity we have to expose the music.

That said, I really believe the internet is the future of dance "radio." I've even, as most know, have invested the time and money into my own little station so I can witness the future first hand. Once the technology makes the streams totally portable and car installable the flood gates will open. The radio groups know this and that's why they are putting tons of money into developing their streams while, in my eyes, abandoning the whole HD fiasco. At worst, they can move the HD programming over to the internet side.

Just my thoughts,
jp
 
Nick Im on Z889. I also used to be the program director at WDBK Blackood New jersey. We had a huge following with our all dance format. Z889 is gaining steam quickly as well. The problem is most students are 18-25. The females in this group usually listen to hip hop or rock...same with the males. These stations want the students to join. The lack of Mtv exposure and commercial radio air play have made this genre almost extinct. If the station is playing music the students dont like or know it is hard to get them interested and even when they do join the station it is hard to keep them there. Even Z889 has added hip hop to become more familiar. It has helped with our listeners and students. I think the program director has a lot to do with it too...Is he a professor? a student? or a paid employee? I think what ever void there is musically in the market the "local college station" should jump on board (besides specialty shows). I hate specialty shows because they clutter a good format on alot of stations but i do feel they are important for fairness. Just think i hosted a dance show on then all alternative WDBK...I became program director and flipped the format to dance...i never would have stayed there if i had to play alternative...hence my first point.....
 
JohnParker said:
College and Dance Music, one of my favorite subjects!

To answer Nicks question (How come most college stations don't play dance music?) from my POV the answer is simple. Block programming and culture. As far as I'm aware, most college stations don't have a single format. They have block programming which allows students the opportunity to play the music that they love while learning the art of radio. It works to a degree because most students are a very diverse group of music lovers and to have one format would create a problem for most broadcasting problems. So block programming creates an easy sollution that makes the station fun for everyone. The culture part is that "it's always been that way" mentality that allows it to happen. Most colleges aren't looking for inventive ways to move forward. Instead, they are looking at the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" method of operation. To them, change might cause problems that they'd rather no deal with.
Click to expand...

John,

I'm just tapping on this part of your comment because I actually DO agree with you fully....that a person on college radio should play the music that they love just to hone up on their radio skills. And unfortunately for me, my college radio station wouldn't fully allow me to explore that side and it had always bothered me to this day. In terms of my own benefit by doing the coalition, aside from the obvious...getting dance music further into the mainstream....it allows me to "channel" that anger I've had for the longest time, because of my negative college radio experience, in a constructive and proactive manner for the music that I do love.

Jason Goldstein, you know him...talks to me EVERYDAY about B-91. I lived TOO FAR north in the Bronx out of the station's range to have ever heard it but based on what he has said, along with Tank, you, Bill Plax, I would have had my dial GLUED there....at the very least bounce between Hot 103/97. No doubt if I had attended Kingsborough, I would have been a part of that experience.

Problem is, I had attended Marist College in Poughkeepsie. During my freshman year, 1984, the station was pretty much freeform. So at the time I did a "rap" show...which at the time, rap was basically a NYC thing and really didn't travel further up. Then one day, the GM, based on someone who had a connection with rock alternative labels decided to go with a "new rock" format. The specialty shows were eliminated, except for one guy...who had a personal issue with me because he was the "dance" guy and I was doing something different and he hated it. I was trying to push hard to get my rap show back...and I did succeed in my sophomore year...with 1 hour. I was told that the administration thought I was "ghettoizing" the college by playing rap. Note, this was Run-DMC, Fat Boys, Sugarhill Gang, Grandmaster Flash I was spinning...INNOCENT compared to today's music that EVERYONE on campus listens to! Anyway, I did the hour, but also had an insight of where rap was going. I had bailed out of rap after that semester and wanted to do house music (the Chicago stuff) in 1986. Howver, that guy who had an issue with me was still there and was causing me more problems. The guy who had the record connection became GM; hated my guts and wouldn't give me a chance unless I played THEIR format. I did comply knowing that the only way I was going to change things was to run for GM my senior year...something I knew hell or high water I would NEVER win, but wanted to make my stance. Of course I didn't win (the faculty advisor hated my guts too), but then again with internships, I wouldn't have had any time to be part of the college station.

One day, Cousin Brucie was in Poughkeepsie signing autographs for his new book at the time. I went on line, solely to ask him a question regarding college formats. He said the EXACT same thing you did...that college radio is supposed to be about learning the radio experience BUT should allow for one's own creativity with the music that they like...figuring that once you went to look for your first radio job, you know what you are getting into...formatwise. In a way, I had felt vindicated.

Along the way during reunions, some of those that were against me apologized for their actions...which is ironically funny because while people up there HATED rap, hip-hop became THE music of college youth today! And I was doing this in the 80s.

Sorry for the novel....I've actually NEVER told the full story before. But while I do agree that college radio should allow for one's own explorations, if a station had to be formatted, I'd like to see more colleges try dance music as an option....or at the very least open up for more specialty block shows regarding the dance genres. Yet if it wasn't for the negative experience, it wouldn't have created an outlet for me to express that anger and help dance music in many ways that I can so that NO ONE ELSE (artist, DJ, club, etc.) would ever have to go through what I had endured.
 
Tony, very interesting story.

As for Dance music on College radio, a lot of college stations have specialty Dance show. No matter the time or day, there's almost always a college station somewhere in America that is broadcasing a Dance show of some sorts. Be it House, Drum N Bass, Trance, mainstream Dance, and so on.
Some examples:
Friday nights at WPRK 91.5 Orlando http://wprkfm.com/?page=schedule#
Saturday nights on 91.1 WREK Atlanta http://www.wrek.org/saturdayshows
Jason Bentley's famous show on L.A.'s 89.9 KCRW http://www.kcrw.com/music/programs/mt
DJ Ron's show on Saturday afternoons on WRVU 91.1 Nashville http://wrvu.org/schedule.html
Thursday nights on Tampa's 88.5 WMNF (a 100,000 watts strong community radio station) http://www.wmnf.org/programs/grid
KGNU 88.5 out of Boulder has a Dance show on Saturday nights http://kgnu.org/ht/beat.html#electronicair
Friday nights on Seattle's KBCS 91.3 FM http://kbcs.fm/site/PageServer?pagename=weeklyprogramschedule
Sunday nights on Seattle's KEXOP 90.3 http://kexp.org/programming/programming.asp
Saturday nights All over Central Ohio (including Columbus and Dayton) on Radio U http://tvulive.com/radiou/fusion.htm
Latin Energy every day on KNON 89.3 Dallas (a community radio station) http://www.knon.org/index.php?id=257
Friday nights/Saturday mornings on 91.7 KVRX Austin http://kvrx.org/station/schedule/friday
 
The Duluth-Superior (MN/WI) market has two college stations: KUMD (University of Minnesota - Duluth) and KUWS (University of Wisconsin - Superior).

KUMD used to have at least one show that played electronic music. I'm guessing it was more of the underground variety.
KUWS, back in the day (1997 - 1999) had a dance show every Friday night, 10 pm - 2 am, called "The Beat". The played more mainstream dance music that couldn't be heard elsewhere in the market. Some of the songs I remember are Culture Beat "Crying in the Rain", Snap "Rhythm is a Dancer", Daze "Superhero", Aqua "My Oh My", Chumbawumba "Amnesia", 3rd Party "Can you feel it?", Newton "Sky High", SOAP "This is how we party", a remix of "Jimmy Ray", and a song that went something like "I'll be your lover, I'll be you're friend, I'll be (?) until the very end".
 
kc both of those stations you just listed lean on NPR type shows - those stations RARELY ever play Dance. NPR stations focus on Talk, community issues, some Jazz, America/Folk, etc.
 
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