DANCE MUSIC, REMIXES, AND RADIO FORMATTING

[Wildstyle K]

Although some of them can be very good, there are an incredible amount of pop remixes that shouldn't be made in the first place. If anything, they should just leave the original alone, especially if the original is already dancey or sounds much better to begin with.

As far as radio station formatting, I've noticed how hip hop, rock, alternative, opera, gospel...etc formats all play mostly original and current hip hop, rock, alternative, opera, gospel hit music, so it would only make sense that dance music stations would play mostly ORIGINAL current dance hits, not a bunch of remixes of hits from several other genres. I could agree with some throwbacks and pop remixes, just like you can get a few hip hop or rock classics or remixes of songs on hip hop and rock stations, but the playlist should not be dominated with them, or equivalent when it comes to the ratio of original and remixed hits and recurrents.

I believe that dance remixes of pop hits should MOSTLY be accepted and heard on top 40 AND rhythmic radio IN ADDITION TO some decent dance tracks, especially if the station that plays them is already playing many other dance leaning hits. The dance remixes could and should especially be used within the rhythmic top 40 mix shows, while the original pure dance content should be featured on dance stations.

Just like many formats play the mainstream hits, dance formats can and should do the same. There are many original mainstream dance hits that are current that could be used, introduced, and played on dance formats. I also believe there is a time and place for where certain things should be featured, which I will show in my example below:

Dance Format - Mostly Current and Original Dance Hits Dominating the Playlist, With Some Limited Pop Remixes and Recurrents Thrown in. Decent Dance Mixshows, Featuring Different Styles of Dance Music at Select Times and Some Things That Aren't Already on the Normal Playlist. New music show / countdown show that fits the format is optional.

Dance Leaning / Top 40 Dance - All Current Dance, including much electro-pop, dance leaning hits, and dance remixes, with some dance remixes of pop hits, and a few recurrents here and there. Again, most of the music should be featured in it's original form, if it is already electronic pop or dance. The mix shows could feature some of the more pure but mainstream dance content, which in this case would be somewhat "harder" and exclusive, compared to the regular playlist. New music / countdown show that fits the format is optional.

Top 40 - Everything your typical top 40 is, but with dance hit music included. Just like certain genre remixes of hits are used in top 40, dance remixes should also be used. Mixshows should feature many pop, electro-pop, and pop dance remixes of hits, in addition to all else that is normal on a typical top 40 station. A top 20 - 40 countdown show occassionally would make sense. A new music show is optional.

Classic Dance / Disco / 90's / 90's & Today - This is where all the classic dance hits should be featured....

_________________________________________________________________________________________

These are just my basic opinions when it comes to dance music and radio formatting, when it comes to all forms of radio. However, HD and Satellite should offer much more than what can already be found on terrestrial radio.

 

[CHRles]

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Dancerev889]

Have you listened to the station in the US? They are all in some shape or form doing what you just said. Most stations would rather play the original as long as it fits. I totally disagree with you not having gold records in the rotations. These are needed records that help sell the format. It also brings the older part of the demo into play. If you are going to attempt to play less played styles of dance music you need to it late night or weekends. In the PPM world, you would kill your ratings if a style was unpopular. Remember PPM you can pretty much track how each song is reacting to your audience. Internet stations are also doing the same. All you have to do is look at the PPM study with Z100's morning show having Madonna on. First few minutes the numbers were threw the roof. As time went on those numbers dropped drastically. Today's listeners have A.D.D., they don't like it they are changing the channel or going to their Ipod.

 

[Wildstyle K]

Have you listened to the station in the US? They are all in some shape or form doing what you just said. Most stations would rather play the original as long as it fits. I totally disagree with you not having gold records in the rotations. These are needed records that help sell the format. It also brings the older part of the demo into play. If you are going to attempt to play less played styles of dance music you need to it late night or weekends. In the PPM world, you would kill your ratings if a style was unpopular. Remember PPM you can pretty much track how each song is reacting to your audience. Internet stations are also doing the same. All you have to do is look at the PPM study with Z100's morning show having Madonna on. First few minutes the numbers were threw the roof. As time went on those numbers dropped drastically. Today's listeners have A.D.D., they don't like it they are changing the channel or going to their Ipod.

This is why I intentionally left out all the radio rules, data, and ratings that have brainwashed many people over the years and went strictly according to my basic opinions, off the top of my head.

One thing I did fail to clarify is that the very first two sentenced statement about pop remixes was directed towards pure current dance formats only.

 

[Wildstyle K]

Although some of them can be very good, there are an incredible amount of pop remixes that shouldn't be made in the first place. If anything, they should just leave the original alone, especially if the original is already dancey or sounds much better to begin with.

That needs to be rephrased.

-Many pop remixes shouldn't be played in the first place... (on Dance stations, or stations claiming to be "real" dance)

-They should just leave the original alone... (the producers who create these distasteful remixes)

and I forgot my famous line:
-Artists should start out by making their original a dance track to begin with, rather than brushing off of dance and having a whole bunch of remixes on the side.

That entire last line I want engraved in my tombstone. In my will, there will be a link to this thread for proof.

 

[Dancerev889]

Have you listened to the station in the US? They are all in some shape or form doing what you just said. Most stations would rather play the original as long as it fits. I totally disagree with you not having gold records in the rotations. These are needed records that help sell the format. It also brings the older part of the demo into play. If you are going to attempt to play less played styles of dance music you need to it late night or weekends. In the PPM world, you would kill your ratings if a style was unpopular. Remember PPM you can pretty much track how each song is reacting to your audience. Internet stations are also doing the same. All you have to do is look at the PPM study with Z100's morning show having Madonna on. First few minutes the numbers were threw the roof. As time went on those numbers dropped drastically. Today's listeners have A.D.D., they don't like it they are changing the channel or going to their Ipod.

This is why I intentionally left out all the radio rules, data, and ratings that have brainwashed many people over the years and went strictly according to my basic opinions, off the top of my head.

One thing I did fail to clarify is that the very first two sentenced statement about pop remixes was directed towards pure current dance formats only.

You are narrowcasting a format. Its not brainwashing, its smart business. Even when programmers went mostly on their guts on a record they still had research. How was the record doing sales wise in the area. It was more localized. You still need those pop remixes. Those songs along with gold records are what will get the masses to listen to your station. Unless you had an unlimited pot of money, you are going to have to make sure that this station makes money.

 

[nd2023]

Dance Format - Mostly Current and Original Dance Hits Dominating the Playlist, With Some Limited Pop Remixes and Recurrents Thrown in. Decent Dance Mixshows, Featuring Different Styles of Dance Music at Select Times and Some Things That Aren't Already on the Normal Playlist. New music show / countdown show that fits the format is optional.
examples: Energy 98, Radio Danz, BPM pre-merger

Dance Leaning / Top 40 Dance - All Current Dance, including much electro-pop, dance leaning hits, and dance remixes, with some dance remixes of pop hits, and a few recurrents here and there. Again, most of the music should be featured in it's original form, if it is already electronic pop or dance. The mix shows could feature some of the more pure but mainstream dance content, which in this case would be somewhat "harder" and exclusive, compared to the regular playlist. New music / countdown show that fits the format is optional.
examples: Pulse 87, Z88.9, 94.5 The Vibe, iPartyRadio, BPM in its current form, Super 91.7

Top 40 - Everything your typical top 40 is, but with dance hit music included. Just like certain genre remixes of hits are used in top 40, dance remixes should also be used. Mixshows should feature many pop, electro-pop, and pop dance remixes of hits, in addition to all else that is normal on a typical top 40 station. A top 20 - 40 countdown show occassionally would make sense. A new music show is optional.
examples: Z103.5, Fun 107, Party 105 (straddles between Dance Leaning / Top 40 Dance and Top 40)

Classic Dance / Disco / 90's / 90's & Today - This is where all the classic dance hits should be featured....
examples: KTU, the former Mix 102.7, 93.9 MIA, The Strobe

But even within a category, the stations all have a unique sound. The local market and the program director's preferences affect what different stations play.

Our slice of dance music within the 4 categories is still a subset of all electronic music.

 

[Gusto]

I feel like I am reading the differences between Oldies and Classic Hits. Isn't there another topic more worthy of posting?

 

[Wildstyle K]

You still need those pop remixes.

Business-wise it's great on radio. Other than that, an overdose can be way too much and boring. Some remixes are ok, while others simply are just horrible, but a few will accept and even be willing to continue to listen just because they know the words and can sing along to it. I have no problem with the decently produced pop remixes, as long as they are not over played or dominating a dance format playlist.

 

[dmich]

I think it depends on various factors. The biggest one to me, who remixed it. Even that, sometimes a remix just isn't that good. Fact is, there are a lot of "remixers" out there now, but that doesn't mean they are any good. Understanding true mixing and producing is a talent, not something picked up reading a manual. A personal pet peeve is having to listen to a "dj" who can't hold a mix and/or drops out of it too soon. There's nothing quite like listening to a train wreck again and again.

On the flip side, there are some actual good mixes out there. You just have to look for them. I'm not one of those people that just adds a remix because it says "remix" on it. It either sounds good or it's not going on.

 

[instigator]

It's hard to decide what is to be played on a "dance station"..if u don't included the pop remixes the format can be totally unfamiliar with new audiences...If u put them in with the current dance hits it makes it more acceptable to new listeners... I don't understand why dance programmers program their gold the way they do...If I was programming I would go heavy freestyle and dance hits of the late mid to late 90's with a little euro.ex .Real McCoy...I often hear songs that weren't dance when they were out and I don't understand their relevence..some examples: Salt and Peppa, Kwame, Marky Mark(are you serious...really!?!), Digital Underground....these artists were considered urban when they were out and quite frankly a lot of people that are dance supporters hate these artists because the rap dance sound killed dance music for almost 10 years...I personally Hated Q102 Philly when they changed from a pure dance station to play this rap- dance and then when they eventually turned full on urban.

 

[Wildstyle K]

And now that we've got the entire remix / dance pop remix topic covered, I would like to introduce my next topic, which is the final destination of where I was headed with this.

One thing a lot of people don't understand is that just because they don't like a certain remix or sound, then that automatically gives them the right to establish laws and dictate certain styles do not fit into a certain genre, JUST BECAUSE they personally don't like the sound. For example, as much as I sit here and talk about thinking that dance stations should play more pure dance hits as oppose to mostly remixes, that does not mean I'm going to say that anything that doesn't fit the description of pure dance is not dance music, just because I don't like it OR because a top 40 station or established pop artist sang it.

There are a whole bunch of dance hits that have recently been done by former or established pop / r&b artists, and there are also many dance hits being played on top 40 radio, whether people want to accept it or not. The artist, producer, format of a station, and personal desires of an individual do not dictate whether or not a certain song or sound is a certain genre.

So with that being said, I conclude by saying that there are many dance hits getting attention right now. Whether or not we use this to our advantage and accept it is our decision. We can get on board and embrace this temporary period of transition as we slide into the next phase and welcome these pop artists to be "part of us", letting it be known that the style that's being used today is electronica, or continue to reject it, say it's not dance music because it's slightly different or "not hard enough" or not by "the right artist" and let the hip hop and pop community get by alone with spreading the false knowledge that everything is pop, hip hop, and r&b. Either way it goes, someone is going to accept the music if it's hot, so the choice is there.

either
A. Accept many of the very heavily dance influenced modernized hits of today, get involved, and SHARE the music, letting people realize that this is more than just pop, or

B. Completely reject it, say it's not dance, and completely shove it off to the pop / hip hop community, and keep that very strong borderline there so the hip hop / pop community can take full credit and say "this is evolutionized HIP HOP".

The same way many pop artists are crossing over into electro pop, many dance artists and fans can also go the other direction, making AT LEAST some (not all) of their hits more urban sounding electro hits and meet each other half way. There are so many artist out there that I believe could make it, if only they'd open their minds a little bit more and try something a little different and unique. Keep your dance singing style, but change up some of the beats on certain songs that you want to put out so they'd have a higher chance of crossing over into top 40. It can work. I remember back (way before I knew about these boards) when I used to think up "weird" collaborations... for example, Ludacris ft Rockell, or someone like Cascada or Jenna Drey teaming up with 50 Cent or Lil Wayne.. etc. I used to always suggest stuff like this, and wonder "why can't anyone else think up these things??" An incredible amount of people thought I was absolutely crazy and had just lost my mind and thought "this would never work..." Well.. to conserve time.. I'll just flash forward to today, and say there is no better time for people to CONTINUE doing this, and for more people to learn from those people who finally thought about it and did so successfully.

IT CAN BE DONE.

I've heard many styles of dance that used to be accepted within the dance community in the past, even the ones that crossed over into pop or contain rap in it, so I cannot see how or why many of the dance hits being made today are being rejected and ridiculed, when many of them would have been straight up dance hits if only the calendar were set a few years back. I also believe we have a massive amount of new school freestyle dance hits out right now, but the freestyle community continues to dismiss it because it's not by the right artists, it's not the right race of people, it doesn't sound exactly as it did in 1986...etc. Oh well. As long as these type of things continue to happen, nothing will change, and pop, hip hop, and r&b will eventually begin to take credit for everything that isn't jazz, opera, spanish, or rock. Hip hop will be like the ClearChannel of music genres, and they'll get away with it as everyone else continues to sits back, reject everything that doesn't follow specific "rules" that we've been conditioned and trained to believe, and let someone else claim the entire style as their own.

Logically speaking and thinking, if a dance station that claims to be real or pure dance is going to play dance remixes of pop songs, then they should also include certain songs by Akon, Pitbull, Black Eyed Peas, Flo Rida...etc. in their ORIGINAL form. If old school on any dance station consists of hits by Afrika Bambaataa, Rockell, Jocelyn Enriquez, Sonique, Lil Suzy, Debbie Deb, Shannon, Crystal Waters, Planet Soul, any breakbeat version of Diana Fox...etc, then they should also embrace certain current hits by Akon, Pitbull, Black Eyed Peas, Rihanna, Flo Rida...etc. Imagine these hits being played with other dance hits on a dance station, similar to how it would have been back in the day! Imagine how much more acceptance would result from this, how it would teach people that dance isn't really only what the stereotypical techno sound is, and how many recurrents in the dance playlist could be replaced with the updated, new, modernized sound! When you REALLY think about it, it all begins to boil down to logic. I'd expect logic and common sense to be absent or become a thing of the past when it comes to politics and the way many people operate in a variety of other situations, but lets not let it start seeping into the way we see and categorize music. There are some people who don't even realize that the Crookers remix of "day 'n' nite" by Kid Cudi is dance music. It's very simple. People open their minds, see what's REALLY going on, and things begin to change, and that is a fact in all areas of life.

As a matter of fact, I think this post deserves a fresh new thread topic of its own, so don't be surprised if you see a brand new copy of this opened up as a new thread in the near future. Facebook and MySpace readers who are knowledgeable about dance music, feel free to add your input.

 

[nd2023]

For me, rhythmic music that doesn't obviously sound like hip hop is "dance" if I hear it on a dance station first. A good example is Kid Cudi - Day N Nite (Crookers Remix). First heard it on Pulse months before Z100 and NOW played it.

 

[Wildstyle K]

For me, rhythmic music that doesn't obviously sound like hip hop is "dance" if I hear it on a dance station first. A good example is Kid Cudi - Day N Nite (Crookers Remix). First heard it on Pulse months before Z100 and NOW played it.

I should've figured that people here already know most of this, but... I usually tend to post as if I am talking to everyone since this might be copied and pasted in other places as well.

The dance section of the Radio-Boards is the only place where I really talk to people who know dance music, and I'm still nearly new to this site compared to other places, so I still tend to get a bit "educational". Believe it or not, many of the stuff I say or come up with here would be like discovering oil in my back yard to other people outside of the dance boards. It's like

OTHER PERSON: "David Guetta and Kelly Rowland? What? Are you serious? Why do you come up with these type of things?"
DJ KDM: actually that collaboration has already been done:
OTHER PERSON: "are you serious? that's hot! can I hear it? and how do you always know and find this stuff? I guess I do like some of this stuff... it's alright..."

So I have a tendency to try to get as many people as possible to think, hear, and see things differently, and it's been the same ever since I first started sneaking in my Real McCoy cassettes and walkman into school in Atlanta to "introduce everybody to the new sound and show them there's more than just rap". Now internet is the new way of communicating, so imagine how much more convenient this was for me to "deliver my dance music presentations and speeches". If I get into all the stories of stuff I've done trying to expose or get the word out about dance music, the list would become ridiculously unbelievable.

To many people, the Kid Cudi remix of "day 'n' nite" is a techno sounding rap song. If there are people who described "try again" by Aaliyah as a techno sounding song, then I'm sure there are other people out there who don't know "Day 'n' nite" is a dance record. When you live all your life dealing with people who are not familiar with the sound, then stumble across a place where people are knowledgeable about it, you still tend to forget "these might be things these people already know". It's like the parent who is still telling their 50 year old kid how to do things because they are used to their "old ways and old days".