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dance station II

Without all the "fancy talk" to "spice things up and make it more of an entertaining read", I'm just going to cut to the chase and give my mundane, but straight talk opinion on why I think the dance sound has so much trouble from the general public point of view:

I have to admit that sometimes, I think expecting, wishing, or planning for an all dance station (the way they have been traditionally done throughout the years in the U.S.) is sort of as sensible as expecting or fantasizing about an all reggaeton format.

I've mentioned this before, but I think the main problem with dance (when it comes to public appeal) is the fact that it's both repetitive and tends to have too many poorly or weirdly done productions that are monotone and difficult for the average listener to get used to. I believe the way dance formatting is traditionally thought of and done hurts when it comes to representing the sound more than it helps because the style in sound that is used most often tends to mostly be only one dance style while all the other dance styles are ignored. Therefore, people hear an incredible amount of the 4x4 house beats style (the one that is most often used on dance formats) and then quickly come to believe "it all sounds the same". Add that with the fact that many dance tracks sound "weird" and tend to have too many radio unfriendly edits and it's like a recipe for less acceptance and failure from the mainstream public.

This is why I believe a dance leaning rhythmic or top 40 is a better suggestion, since it mixes things up a bit, in addition to putting the uptempo pop hits (like modern booty bass and freestyle sounds) and (the typical 4x4 style) dance hits together, so people hear various styles of uptempo music as a whole rather than dance stations playing certain uptempo hits and top 40 playing another kind. I strongly believe dance would be more acceptable mixed in with other forms of rhythmic or top 40 music than just as a product "for itself, by itself", the same way I believe reggaeton sounds best when played with other forms of latin rhythm, latin top 40, or spanish pop urbano.

If dance formatting, (like rock, hip hop, and r&b) focused on ALL styles of dance rather than mainly one sound, I'd think a pure dance format would make more sense. As of right now, the traditional sound is too heavily focused on the house style, which is probaly one reason why many people reject it or think it's only for clubs or dancing. The entire format structure and formula needs to be changed up, but how will that happen if it is mainly only the house style beats making the charts, resulting in many artists, dj's, program directors, and producers to only want to use that one sound and style more?
 
Another thing that hurts dance are the stereotypes that are somehow formed for it. First, it was that movie with the head shake. Now, it's the fist pump.

HERE'S AN INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO ON HOW TO DO THE FIST PUMP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z7bhYIQldQ&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Yes, it mastered the art of being funny, but the people and information present in this video only helps to make the whole sound in general seem like a joke.
 
KDM 7000 said:
I think the main problem with dance (when it comes to public appeal) is the fact that it's both repetitive and tends to have too many poorly or weirdly done productions that are monotone and difficult for the average listener to get used to.

If that's the case, you're either exposed to the wrong dance songs, or you're exposed to the wrong dance songs. Wait a minute, that's the same thing. Have you listened to Energy 98 or The Vibe? Do the songs sound like boom boom loopy loopy goofy goofy poo poo? I think not. And our listener count and copycats prove it!
 
theedger said:
KDM 7000 said:
I think the main problem with dance (when it comes to public appeal) is the fact that it's both repetitive and tends to have too many poorly or weirdly done productions that are monotone and difficult for the average listener to get used to.

If that's the case, you're either exposed to the wrong dance songs, or you're exposed to the wrong dance songs. Wait a minute, that's the same thing. Have you listened to Energy 98 or The Vibe? Do the songs sound like boom boom loopy loopy goofy goofy poo poo? I think not. And our listener count and copycats prove it!

I agree with Mike. A big problem with this format is that people play dance songs just because they are dance songs. They tend to forget if they are good or not. As a radio programmer, you should be trying to play hit songs.
 
I'll keep it plain and simple....

There are more college girls out there that listen to Black Eyed Peas, Rihanna, Ne-Yo, Usher, etc. than there are core fans like ourselves. I DO think dance as a format can work....DOWN THE ROAD, but we have to get to those college girls first on their level and eventually phase them over to our side in a fun way. :) If it's done like that with dance/rhythmic as that start, then things can grow not just quickly but maintain strength in the process....not so as to be "disposable"
 
Tony Santiago said:
I'll keep it plain and simple....

There are more college girls out there that listen to Black Eyed Peas, Rihanna, Ne-Yo, Usher, etc. than there are core fans like ourselves. I DO think dance as a format can work....DOWN THE ROAD, but we have to get to those college girls first on their level and eventually phase them over to our side in a fun way. :) If it's done like that with dance/rhythmic as that start, then things can grow not just quickly but maintain strength in the process....not so as to be "disposable"

This is exactly my point in the other thread.

Look, I don't like listening to a bunch of Top 40 remixes just like the other true dance fan.. but there has to be a mix of enough Rihanna, Ne-Yo, Usher etc to get the mainstream audience listening. If you just program to true dance fans you will never get above a 1.0 share.

It's actually pretty easy these days since most new Top 40 is very dance sounding. I don't see how the new Chris Brown for example, DOESN'T fit into a dance station?!? My favorite dance station overseas, Fresh FM in the Netherlands, is playing Bruno Mars for crying out loud!
 
Dancerev889 said:
As a radio programmer, you should be trying to play hit songs.

Doesn't this still fall under;

KDM 7000 said:
The entire format structure and formula needs to be changed up, but how will that happen if it is mainly only the house style beats making the charts, resulting in many artists, dj's, program directors, and producers to only want to use that one sound and style more?

?
 
KDM 7000 said:
Dancerev889 said:
As a radio programmer, you should be trying to play hit songs.

Doesn't this still fall under;

KDM 7000 said:
The entire format structure and formula needs to be changed up, but how will that happen if it is mainly only the house style beats making the charts, resulting in many artists, dj's, program directors, and producers to only want to use that one sound and style more?

?

You made the comment about it being repetitive and monotone.
 
Dancerev889 said:
KDM 7000 said:
Dancerev889 said:
As a radio programmer, you should be trying to play hit songs.

Doesn't this still fall under;

KDM 7000 said:
The entire format structure and formula needs to be changed up, but how will that happen if it is mainly only the house style beats making the charts, resulting in many artists, dj's, program directors, and producers to only want to use that one sound and style more?

?

You made the comment about it being repetitive and monotone.

And it is that one sound and style that feeds the repetitive and monotone stereotype (although it may not be hurting things too much these days- since it's now in).
 
KDM 7000 said:
Dancerev889 said:
KDM 7000 said:
Dancerev889 said:
As a radio programmer, you should be trying to play hit songs.

Doesn't this still fall under;

KDM 7000 said:
The entire format structure and formula needs to be changed up, but how will that happen if it is mainly only the house style beats making the charts, resulting in many artists, dj's, program directors, and producers to only want to use that one sound and style more?

?

You made the comment about it being repetitive and monotone.

And it is that one sound and style that feeds the repetitive and monotone stereotype (although it may not be hurting things too much these days- since it's now in).

What hurts the genre is when people play songs are bad. Just because its "a dance" single doesnt mean you have to play it. Sometimes I think DJ's and some programmers feel they have to support a record that is bad to help the cause. If a style is in and its working go with it.
 
Dancerev889 said:
What hurts the genre is when people play songs are bad. Just because its "a dance" single doesnt mean you have to play it. Sometimes I think DJ's and some programmers feel they have to support a record that is bad to help the cause. If a style is in and its working go with it.

I am right now thinking back to the Winter Music Conference of 2009, sipping mojitos with a bunch of music execs at the South Seas Hotel poolside. I will NEVER forget the words of Joey Batts (Big Management) when we were talking about dance music and radio. He told me "People just have to hear it and get exposed." Those words stuck to me like glue and became a part of my "mantra".

This makes me think back to a few months ago when I received this track that sounded VERY quirky. I wasn't crazy about it at all. Yet something told me because it WAS different, to go with it and see how the crowd would react...to something that I thought, at the time, was "bad". I played this track on my show, and the feedback was INSANE! I didn't expect to get that much feedback to a track that, to me, sounded okay but no "cartwheels" on me for it. But for me, as I've continued to hear it and more places were playing it, the song eventually grew on me. That track? "We No Speak Americano" And if it is a "sin" to support a record because I thought it was bad then I was the one pleasantly mistaken because people LOVED it. I'm glad I took that chance, being one of the very first people to play it. Yet there are tracks that I think sound GREAT and it boggles my mind that a track didn't take off like I felt it should. "Take Me With You" by Serge Devant (Adam K & Soha remix) comes to mind for me.

Now, granted, I know you have a station to run Brett and you run Z88.9 as such. Nothing wrong on that. The same way Mike O runs Energy 98 and The Vibe. Nothing wrong on that. For what I do on Party Radio USA, being a "specialty" show I like to take chances...if anything I feel I NEED TO do that because if something creates such a buzz and PD's such as yourself catch that, then I felt I've done a good thing for the sake of our music. Because if someone got that chance and is successful based on getting that initial "play", then it is a good thing.

Yes, I've played bad records. For the sake of experimentation, most certainly. And if THAT enhances what the audience knows, inherently, then we know what to avoid in the future and stay to that sound that works out :). It's that driven passion I have about this music where I WANT things to succeed....for ALL OF US. :) And sometimes, that risk has to be taken...but then again, for what I do as a "specialty" show, I can take those risks. If anything, I NEED to if down the road, things can get stronger for the music by you guys (you, Mike O, Vic, Manny, everyone I met at WMC and the DJ Expo).

I just needed to say that :). No hard feelings here :)
 
I had a specialty show for years on the same station I program. I have played bad records but that was also because I was not getting the record service I am getting now. I am also about giving people a chance, but even with a specialty show, you always have to think, what would my audience want to hear?

I am also looking at it from the fact that this genre is in a unique situation. Top 40 is embracing the sound and we all have an opportunity to showcase the genre. Its like the World Series, are you going to put out your best 11 or you going to test someone that isnt proven?
 
Dancerev889 said:
I had a specialty show for years on the same station I program. I have played bad records but that was also because I was not getting the record service I am getting now. I am also about giving people a chance, but even with a specialty show, you always have to think, what would my audience want to hear?

I am also looking at it from the fact that this genre is in a unique situation. Top 40 is embracing the sound and we all have an opportunity to showcase the genre. Its like the World Series, are you going to put out your best 11 or you going to test someone that isnt proven?

True. I don't just play ANY record for the sake of being a record. It HAS to sound good whereas the audience will keep tuning in :).

But hey, since we're comparing this to baseball, sure you want to get your best players out there. Yet those players had to come up through the ranks in order to be where they are at. So to develop the "club", you have to have a good minor league system to bring up the good talent. That way, when players eventually "retire", you still have good talent to go with based on their success in the minors.

I hate comparing online radio to "minors" because you DO have stations that have "major league" tendencies. But somehow something has to be given the shot and if that track makes "the big show", then there you go :)
 
I'm not talking about just playing big names and not playing new artists. I am talking about playing the best songs possible. I agree we need to break new artists, but the song has to be great.
 
Tony Santiago said:
Dancerev889 said:
What hurts the genre is when people play songs are bad. Just because its "a dance" single doesnt mean you have to play it. Sometimes I think DJ's and some programmers feel they have to support a record that is bad to help the cause. If a style is in and its working go with it.

I am right now thinking back to the Winter Music Conference of 2009, sipping mojitos with a bunch of music execs at the South Seas Hotel poolside. I will NEVER forget the words of Joey Batts (Big Management) when we were talking about dance music and radio. He told me "People just have to hear it and get exposed." Those words stuck to me like glue and became a part of my "mantra".

This makes me think back to a few months ago when I received this track that sounded VERY quirky. I wasn't crazy about it at all. Yet something told me because it WAS different, to go with it and see how the crowd would react...to something that I thought, at the time, was "bad". I played this track on my show, and the feedback was INSANE! I didn't expect to get that much feedback to a track that, to me, sounded okay but no "cartwheels" on me for it. But for me, as I've continued to hear it and more places were playing it, the song eventually grew on me. That track? "We No Speak Americano" And if it is a "sin" to support a record because I thought it was bad then I was the one pleasantly mistaken because people LOVED it. I'm glad I took that chance, being one of the very first people to play it. Yet there are tracks that I think sound GREAT and it boggles my mind that a track didn't take off like I felt it should. "Take Me With You" by Serge Devant (Adam K & Soha remix) comes to mind for me.

Now, granted, I know you have a station to run Brett and you run Z88.9 as such. Nothing wrong on that. The same way Mike O runs Energy 98 and The Vibe. Nothing wrong on that. For what I do on Party Radio USA, being a "specialty" show I like to take chances...if anything I feel I NEED TO do that because if something creates such a buzz and PD's such as yourself catch that, then I felt I've done a good thing for the sake of our music. Because if someone got that chance and is successful based on getting that initial "play", then it is a good thing.

Yes, I've played bad records. For the sake of experimentation, most certainly. And if THAT enhances what the audience knows, inherently, then we know what to avoid in the future and stay to that sound that works out :). It's that driven passion I have about this music where I WANT things to succeed....for ALL OF US. :) And sometimes, that risk has to be taken...but then again, for what I do as a "specialty" show, I can take those risks. If anything, I NEED to if down the road, things can get stronger for the music by you guys (you, Mike O, Vic, Manny, everyone I met at WMC and the DJ Expo).

I just needed to say that :). No hard feelings here :)

I agree with this, too.
 
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