dance station

[Wildstyle K]

By the way, I thought about it and after a little thought and consideration, the conclusion I came up with for the chicken and egg thing was; "who cares?" Being that we've advanced and managed to live past that without knowing the answer somewhat makes the whole thing a bit irrelevant.

Now, while the "greater presence of dance or pseudodance on chrs" question may be an intelligent, thought provoking one, in some ways, it is similar to the chicken and egg thing. The amount of time and research necessary to factually determine an accurate answer is not worth it because.. in reality, the answer really wont get anyone anywhere, and it's not worth it to research something in depth that wont change anything much to begin with.

Now, as far as what is and what isn't dance music, I'm not here to educate the public on this (if you are really interested in finding out, listen to EVERY song in the mix that will automatically play on this page http://www.7000express.multiply.com and EVERY SONG in there WILL BE a form of dance music, guaranteed).. anyway, like I was saying, I'm not here to educate the public on it, (although I know I will be tempted to to some degree before moving on to the next thing I have to say). Those who are interested will research for themselves, and if you are interested, I have a couple of stations for you to check out; WPOW, WKQI, WBBM, KIIS, KMVQ, XHTO.. etc. That is just a BRIEF PREVIEW of a list of successful non dance lean chr rhythmic and top 40 stations playing and featuring dance, or using strictly dance specialty shows (and some even doing both).

Look at this WKQI last palyed mixshow playlist:

Flo-Rida - Low (w/ T-Pain)
30.10.2010 10:54pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Jay Sean - 2012 (It Ain't The End)
30.10.2010 11:00pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Birdman - Written On Her (w/ Jay Sean)
30.10.2010 11:02pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

LMFAO - Shots (w/ Lil' Jon)
30.10.2010 11:05pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Will.I.Am - Check It Out (w/ Nicki Minaj)
30.10.2010 11:07pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

David Guetta - Sexy Chick (w/ Akon)
30.10.2010 11:08pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Fergie - Fergalicious (w/ Will.I.Am)
30.10.2010 11:13pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Three 6 Mafia - Feel It (w/ Tiesto, Sean Kingston & Flo-Rida)
30.10.2010 11:15pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Longo & Wainwright - One Life Stand (w/ Craig Smart)
30.10.2010 11:21pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Afrojack - Take Over Control (w/ Eva Simons)
30.10.2010 11:22pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Uffie - ADD SUV (w/ Pharrell Williams)
30.10.2010 11:36pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Deadmau5 - Ghosts 'N' Stuff
30.10.2010 11:40pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Swedish House Mafia - One (Your Name) (w/ Pharrell)
30.10.2010 11:47pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

Robert Glasper - J Dillalude
30.10.2010 11:50pm
Buy from: iTunes | Amazon.com

EVERY song in there is a form of dance music. Notice the different beat styles and sounds being used here. If anybody (in top 40 / CHR) knows dance music, the people & dj's at WKQI do, and they've also discovered (like many other stations as well) that dance can successfully be featured in the form of MIXSHOWS! Everybody may not agree on which style of dance is "good enough", but what people like or think or wish to believe or who's vocals are put over the instrumental..etc. does not automatically transform the entire genre into something else... and I'll just leave it at that.
___________________________________________________________________________________

LASTLY, I don't think I've mentioned it within the L.A. section yet, but for those of you who like to knowingly say things with no other reasoning but to attempt to piss other people off, I will let you know that this type of thinking and behavior does not work with me, so it will ALWAYS be a waste of time with me. I call it the terrorist mindset - because that is precisely what terrorists do - knowingly do / say things that they know will piss people off with no other reasoning but to do just that. It doesn't work with me. I respond once, tell you how I feel about it, then I'm done and that's it. I will not participate in any attempts to create unnecessary drama or behavior. I remember some guy in the Atlanta section who despises chr top 40; He tried his best to produce the terrorist mindset behavior with me with no other reasoning but to attempt to create an unnecessary situation and it took him 30 days to realize he was wasting his time because I just move on with no emotion about it and it does not stop me from saying what I have to say, whenever I want, however I wish.

Like I always say; I say what I say, the reader decides how they wish to feel about it. Everything I say may not always FEEL good, for whatever reasoning the reader chooses in their mind. Just know that these days, if I perceive anything to be a nonsense answer or absurd type of response behavior, I just move on with no emotion, and I provide no response.

I REPORT, YOU DECIDE.


Enjoy your day folks.

 

[davideduardo]

Which came first? Oh, I dunno maybe

Marrs Radio
Groove Radio
KDL

Let's see, what do all those things have in common?

Ah, I know. A signal... the same one in each case... that is terrible.

While I am skeptical of dance on a full signal today (I programmed a dance station years ago) I know a general market format on a bad signal in LA is not going to work... and they tried it three times on that one!

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Which came first? Oh, I dunno maybe

Marrs Radio
Groove Radio
KDL

Let's see, what do all those things have in common?

Ah, I know. A signal... the same one in each case... that is terrible.

While I am skeptical of dance on a full signal today (I programmed a dance station years ago) I know a general market format on a bad signal in LA is not going to work... and they tried it three times on that one!

David, I'm surprised at you. You know as well as anyone that it is more than possible for a well programmed station to get ratings in spite of a weak signal.

You remember KSCA (You *know* KSCA). Of course it is a stronger signal than the challenged ones I mentioned, but before it went Spanish (and broke my heart, but I digress) the excuses of the purveyors of its previous formats were "the signal". Heftel came in and blew that theory to pieces. It was apparently true as proven by Arbitron that what this market needed was a Spanish language music station with a personality-driven morning show, instead of the best rock station ever (again, I digress).

In the case of the Dance stations I mentioned, the signal adequately covers the areas where one would expect a large portion of the target audience to be, in short, Downtown LA to the sea, including Hollywood, West Hollywood, West LA, Santa Monica, and the beach cities. What sunk these stations is that they got little to no national buys and often times had very bad commercials for local bathouses and the like, which may have appealed to part of the audience, but no doubt alienated a large part of the audience. Therefore small ratings, bad advertising (and in KDL's case, really bad radio as documented at the time) mainly sunk these stations.

 

[BJSteigner]

Dance Station In Los Angeles

To the community:

The only way for a dance station to be a viable format in all urban cities should be from programming experts who know the format well without any corporate intervention.

In that way, a dance formatted station can be a perfect fit.

People say it's not the programming...But in reality it is.

Just take a good look at all formatted music stations based on expert programmers who know their respective format very well.

 

[TonySantiago]

But let's face reality.....

Who HAS the money.......corporate.
Who HAS the promotional pull.......corporate.

Not to knock the "mom and pop" operations here, but for the stations that have failed while programming from a CORE perspective was good, the money wasn't coming in as quick and they had little money to go on.

That's why this time around, corporate has to get in there and there would have to be some "give and take" from fans, especially those that are core bent to NOT want to change their philosophies

 

[davideduardo]

David, I'm surprised at you. You know as well as anyone that it is more than possible for a well programmed station to get ratings in spite of a weak signal.

But... those ratings only hold until someone with a better signal comes in and, even with a comparable performance, kills due to coverage.

Or take the opposite. Y 107 could never do anything more than ding KROQ, because the signal was limited.

You remember KSCA (You *know* KSCA). Of course it is a stronger signal than the challenged ones I mentioned, but before it went Spanish (and broke my heart, but I digress) the excuses of the purveyors of its previous formats were "the signal".

There is a difference between excuses and reality. KSCA is a Mt Wilson signal, with a power level about the same as KSWD and only slightly less than KIIS. But it's on top of Wilson, at over 5,000 feet AMSL. More challenged are signals like KLAX, KXOL, KROQ, KYSR because, despite power, they are much lower.

Heftel came in and blew that theory to pieces.

Hispanic Broadcasting simply exposed the excuses of the AAA crowd for what they were: AAA was good for about a 1.1 on any full signal in the market.

It was apparently true as proven by Arbitron that what this market needed was a Spanish language music station with a personality-driven morning show, instead of the best rock station ever (again, I digress).

This was more about KLAX having dropped the ball in it's format, Regional Mexican, and KSCA picking it up. Remember, KLAX got over a 7 share in 1992, but could not sustain that level over time.

In the case of the Dance stations I mentioned, the signal adequately covers the areas where one would expect a large portion of the target audience to be, in short, Downtown LA to the sea, including Hollywood, West Hollywood, West LA, Santa Monica, and the beach cities.

That is pretty close to the area Arbitron calls "Southwest" and it represents only about 12% of the MSA 12+ population, while "Central South" represents about 22%, for example. That area is not big enough to drive ratings.

What sunk these stations is that they got little to no national buys

They got no buys on the national level because they had ratings well below the rank level generally seen for even the deepest buys.

and often times had very bad commercials for local bathouses and the like, which may have appealed to part of the audience, but no doubt alienated a large part of the audience. Therefore small ratings, bad advertising (and in KDL's case, really bad radio as documented at the time) mainly sunk these stations.

It's back to signal. The three dance formats did not cover enough people to make an impression in a general market format.

 

[Buckethead]

KDL didn't survive because they couldn't make a living selling local "club night" spots.

 

[AM FM listener]

The stakes are very high with a full powered station and apparently nobody has enough confidence in a full-time dance format to put it on a full powered station. There is no question that dance music is an important part of today's CHR, perhaps the most important part, but it can never seem to make it as a full-time radio format. I wonder why public radio hasn't supported dance more. That has been an important outlet for the classical and AAA formats.

 

[Wildstyle K]

one main problem with traditional dance station formatting

Without all the "fancy talk" to "spice things up and make it more of an entertaining read", I'm just going to cut to the chase and give my mundane, but straight talk opinion on why I think the dance sound has so much trouble from the general public point of view:

I have to admit that sometimes, I think expecting, wishing, or planning for an all dance station (the way they have been traditionally done throughout the years in the U.S.) is sort of as sensible as expecting or fantasizing about an all reggaeton format.

I've mentioned this before, but I think the main problem with dance (when it comes to public appeal) is the fact that it's both repetitive and tends to have too many poorly or weirdly done productions that are monotone and difficult for the average listener to get used to. I believe the way dance formatting is traditionally thought of and done hurts when it comes to representing the sound more than it helps because the style in sound that is used most often tends to mostly be only one dance style while all the other dance styles are ignored. Therefore, people hear an incredible amount of the 4x4 house beats style (the one that is most often used on dance formats) and then quickly come to believe "it all sounds the same". Add that with the fact that many dance tracks sound "weird" and tend to have too many radio unfriendly edits and it's like a recipe for less acceptance and failure from the mainstream public.

This is why I believe a dance leaning rhythmic or top 40 is a better suggestion, since it mixes things up a bit, in addition to putting the uptempo pop hits (like modern booty bass and freestyle sounds) and (the typical 4x4 style) dance hits together, so people hear various styles of uptempo music as a whole rather than dance stations playing certain uptempo hits and top 40 playing another kind. I strongly believe dance would be more acceptable mixed in with other forms of rhythmic or top 40 music than just as a product "for itself, by itself", the same way I believe reggaeton sounds best when played with other forms of latin rhythm, latin top 40, or spanish pop urbano.

If dance formatting, (like rock, hip hop, and r&b) focused on ALL styles of dance rather than mainly one sound, I'd think a pure dance format would make more sense. As of right now, the traditional sound is too heavily focused on the house style, which is probaly one reason why many people reject it or think it's only for clubs or dancing. The entire format structure and formula needs to be changed up, but how will that happen if it is mainly only the house style beats making the charts, resulting in many artists, dj's, program directors, and producers to only want to use that one sound and style more?

 

[Wildstyle K]

I'm wondering if the greater presence of dance or pseudodance on CHRs increases interest in more dance... or satisfies the need and reduces any interest in a more-dance type format.

I do have to admit that this question has been tattooed in my brain.
I thought about this once before, but didn't think much of that thought and just let it slip through and out of my mind. But, after now seeing it in writing, this question, for some reason, "strikes me differently" now. I don't think people are seeing the deepness of this question when it comes to formatting because most of us are truly looking at it through a biased lens of wishful thinking, whether it be a wish for more dance or less dance, and then basing our reasoning for why it should be a certain way, based on our own desires.

 

[Dj Woody]

I think there's a HUGE market for dance in LA. If Insomnia can pull 185,000 people to a rave, that's telling you something. House music, which is the hottest dance format right now here in LA, used to be underground a few years ago and now there's a huge crossover happening. Tiesto completely stopped playing trance so he can focus more on house. He's now collaborating with Jay Z. He also worked with Three Six Mafia and Nelly Furtado. In a recent interview Tiesto also mentioned working with Britney Spears. Kelly Rowland worked with Laidback Luke. And lets not forget the hottest DJ's right now, David Guetta & Swedish House Mafia.

Many clubs and events that were underground at one point are now switching to house because of the huge numbers that it attracts.

My only problem I see with this is... This crowd don't listen to radio enough! haha Well they do but you know what I mean. The majority of them get their music online. It's a new generation that was born around the computer age and the internet.

 

[TonySantiago]

Let me add on to this Woody....

You also have a lot of girls of college age that think of dance as Rihanna, Ne-Yo, Usher, etc...which actually is OKAY if you have their dance remixes on a formatted station like this. There aren't as many core fans in this country with dance music as there are the college girls in this thinking.

SO...if we get them at least on a very basic, dare I say "safe" level, then down the road you can educate them further with artists that are pure dance oriented. We have to push more crossover at the beginning if things for dance can gain strength...to which it actually is. We've had Electric Zoo over here in New York and that drew HUGE crowds

 

[Buckethead]

There 185,000 people at a rave in LA?

Damn. That's impressive.
Though there is something about the communal experience which is part of what people go there for.

 

[GeneSavage]

I'd suspect that dance on CHRs would help the dance station gain acceptance rather than pull dance listeners to the CHR because #1 CHR is "mass appeal" & won't focus on the style and #2 I suspect many dance fans listen minimally or not at all to broadcast.

...Question is, what do you think of the dance formats programmed on satellite, and if you approve of them is there any way to know what percentage of the Sirius / XM audience they are pulling?

That has the potential to be VERY telling.

I'll also mention 92.1 / The Beat in Tulsa, Oklahoma (not a town most would think of as a "dance capital") that's done very well with its rhythmic / dance format. It started out more R&B but has drifted more mainstream dance as the years have gone by. They seem to pull respectable numbers. The local CHR (106.9 / K-Hits) is dance / hip hop leaning, and has been for... decades? Maybe!

These are by no means pure dance players... but they could be taken potentially as an indicator of what could be possible.

Remember: nobody was willing to do classic country until somebody saw it work... then suddenly EVERYBODY had to have a few classic country stations in their portfolio. This could happen again, potentially.

 

[davidbeltran]

Dance station in LA would be nice