T
troone
Guest
I heard "Layla" last week, Elton John the day after and then I was subjected to Mellencamp's "Small Town" on the way into work today. I screamed audibly.
Very disappointing.
Very disappointing.
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This sort of thing happens when the ratings reflect that hardly anyone's listening.
troone said:I heard "Layla" last week, Elton John the day after and then I was subjected to Mellencamp's "Small Town" on the way into work today. I screamed audibly.
Very disappointing.
T
troone
Guest
I guess. But no one was listening when 92.9 actually was a classic rock/hits factory pre-2004.
To me this is the most inexplicable Atlanta radio story of the last 15 years: How can Z93 play classic rock - with quality air staff, a good sound and a killer signal - for 15 years, then switch to AAA ... only to find that 97.1 almost beats then 3-to-1 with the same classic rock/hits playlist, much worse signal and no on-air presence at all? And they did it right out of the gate!
To me this is the most inexplicable Atlanta radio story of the last 15 years: How can Z93 play classic rock - with quality air staff, a good sound and a killer signal - for 15 years, then switch to AAA ... only to find that 97.1 almost beats then 3-to-1 with the same classic rock/hits playlist, much worse signal and no on-air presence at all? And they did it right out of the gate!
Yep, fickle they are.
In my opinion, Z93 missed a huge opportunity to flip back to CHR when Star 94 was the only pop station in town (pre-95.5 and 100.5). That was a huge format hole that needed to be filled, not that another pop station would have been the greatest thing known to mankind, but then you would only have had two stations fighting it out with great signal coverage, rather than 4, one with a great stick (94.1) and three that were mediocre to terrible (95.5, 100.5 and 96.7).
I still think Hot AC with Steve McCoy is an option on 92.9. I believe it would force Star to go younger, and one cannot deny that the appeal of getting Steve McCoy in mornings at 92.9 is intriguing, especially for us old farts who remember him at Z back in the day.
In my opinion, Z93 missed a huge opportunity to flip back to CHR when Star 94 was the only pop station in town (pre-95.5 and 100.5). That was a huge format hole that needed to be filled, not that another pop station would have been the greatest thing known to mankind, but then you would only have had two stations fighting it out with great signal coverage, rather than 4, one with a great stick (94.1) and three that were mediocre to terrible (95.5, 100.5 and 96.7).
I still think Hot AC with Steve McCoy is an option on 92.9. I believe it would force Star to go younger, and one cannot deny that the appeal of getting Steve McCoy in mornings at 92.9 is intriguing, especially for us old farts who remember him at Z back in the day.
deadman said:people are fickle
Dave was about what Michelle wanted, not what the listeners wanted. The audience was just one. Unfortunately for her, there weren't enough Portland wannabees to keep her job.
Want to fix Z?
Want to fix Z?
- Do the audience research and listen to it.
- Design the on-air brand and fine tune it online before you launch.
- Market the snot out of it to the people that are passionate about the music you play.
- Forget the other stations, other audiences.
- Repeat!
InTIMadate said:Dave was about what Michelle wanted, not what the listeners wanted. The audience was just one. Unfortunately for her, there weren't enough Portland wannabees to keep her job.
Want to fix Z?
- Do the audience research and listen to it.
- Design the on-air brand and fine tune it online before you launch.
- Market the snot out of it to the people that are passionate about the music you play.
- Forget the other stations, other audiences.
- Repeat!
When I am PD, I will follow this route.
A
AMCM
Guest
deadman said:Can we have O&A in the mornings and T&R in the afternoons?
let the broken record begin again.
InTIMadate is right.
People, particular some of the posters on this board, persist in believing that there's some kind of magic album cut elixer out there; that the cognoscenti will rise up and claim the 92.9 frequency as their own and magically conjure up a 10 share based on cool, hip people who love album cuts from Van Morrison, Bruce Springsteen, Dave Matthews, and the Mahavishnu Orchestra.
Pfft.
Commercial radio is like fast food. Yes it is: ever eat at Wendy's or KFC? It's the same thing, over and over. The menu doesn't change. If you read the story of Dave Thomas, who created both franchises, you'll learn that narrowing the focus and giving the customer exactly and only what they want the most is the formula for winning.
For some reason, people hate the idea that commercial radio is about playing the hits. But the evidence is inescapable. Even the recently released satellite ratings show that the by-far most listened to XM channel is -- da-dah! -- Top Tracks, featuring all the same stuff you hear on commercial radio, over and over again.
CBS? While InTIMadate is on the ball with the prescription, good frigging luck making it happen. I have personal experience with his royal highness Dan Mason. What a pantload.
They should be sweating over at Colony Square right now.
People, particular some of the posters on this board, persist in believing that there's some kind of magic album cut elixer out there; that the cognoscenti will rise up and claim the 92.9 frequency as their own and magically conjure up a 10 share based on cool, hip people who love album cuts from Van Morrison, Bruce Springsteen, Dave Matthews, and the Mahavishnu Orchestra.
Pfft.
Commercial radio is like fast food. Yes it is: ever eat at Wendy's or KFC? It's the same thing, over and over. The menu doesn't change. If you read the story of Dave Thomas, who created both franchises, you'll learn that narrowing the focus and giving the customer exactly and only what they want the most is the formula for winning.
For some reason, people hate the idea that commercial radio is about playing the hits. But the evidence is inescapable. Even the recently released satellite ratings show that the by-far most listened to XM channel is -- da-dah! -- Top Tracks, featuring all the same stuff you hear on commercial radio, over and over again.
CBS? While InTIMadate is on the ball with the prescription, good frigging luck making it happen. I have personal experience with his royal highness Dan Mason. What a pantload.
They should be sweating over at Colony Square right now.
ck dexter haven said:Commercial radio is like fast food. Yes it is: ever eat at Wendy's or KFC? It's the same thing, over and over. The menu doesn't change. If you read the story of Dave Thomas, who created both franchises, you'll learn that narrowing the focus and giving the customer exactly and only what they want the most is the formula for winning.
Isn't this exactly what Cox does, and we complain that their libraries are too limited? Granted, Cox takes it to an extreme, and yes, you do have to have some limitations. There is a middle ground, and it's not being mediocre. Besides, hasn't the River consistantly drifted lower and lower in ratings?
T
troone
Guest
Yet, their shares are still at a level that 92.9 never had as a classic rocker.
M
middlega
Guest
ck dexter haven said:Even the recently released satellite ratings show that the by-far most listened to XM channel is -- da-dah! -- Top Tracks, featuring all the same stuff you hear on commercial radio, over and over again.
I was hoping someone else noticed that.
Bet that was a seriously bitter pill for the too-cool-for-school crowd to swallow.
The too-cool-for-school crowd never accomplishes anything but loudly criticizes those that strive to achieve. Ignore them. It drives them crazy and you'll get more done.
I bet Cox did the format research, saw that there was a huge hole for classic hits since Oldies and Z had gone away, and did their best to fill it completely. Guess what? Huge ratings. I'm not a Bob Neil fan, but someone over there is on the ball.
Here's the second part of the story for those considering a life of radio programming. The rules change with PPM. If you plan to be a PD or MD in a major market living with PPM you will have to do some things differently. Churning out the same Selector sausage will not win you TSL.
Here's what I mean:
Remember the first time you saw "Nirvana Unplugged."
Did it change the way you felt about MTV? About Nirvana?
Do you remember how many commercials ran?
Did you find yourself looking to see it again?
Did you keep your radar up for other "Unplugged' performances?
Did you talk about it with your friends?
(Sorry if you're too young or too old for this reference. Just add your own band and performance: Elvis, Guns & Roses, Hannah Montana, it still works)
Imagine that your radio station is a network instead of one local channel. How many powerful variations of programming focused on your key fans can you create? Yes, focus on making fans, not listeners.
How many times have you sat through a new, bad release by one of your favorite artists? How would you feel if your station provided you the opportunity to hear it once for free before you buy? Would you tune in on the Monday night before it goes on sale to hear it first? How would that make you feel about the station?
I'm not a PD, never wanted to be one and never will. I've worked with some of the best and enjoyed their insights.
If you do strive to be a great PD, go for it and change the rules. You'll be a hero. Then get an agent, become a mercenary and go work for the best paycheck, changing often. You'll have fun, make a lot of money and never worry about your next paycheck or ownership change.
Some may scoff, but the business is changing fast.
We need more leaders and less copiers.
There is great opportunity for the brave, the hungry, the fearless.
What are you doing?
And now, let's return to the sniveling hecklers with their twaddle and tripe....
I bet Cox did the format research, saw that there was a huge hole for classic hits since Oldies and Z had gone away, and did their best to fill it completely. Guess what? Huge ratings. I'm not a Bob Neil fan, but someone over there is on the ball.
Here's the second part of the story for those considering a life of radio programming. The rules change with PPM. If you plan to be a PD or MD in a major market living with PPM you will have to do some things differently. Churning out the same Selector sausage will not win you TSL.
- Create listening events onair
- Promote these events in advance
- Make them unforgetable so that they create talk
- Repeat
Here's what I mean:
Remember the first time you saw "Nirvana Unplugged."
Did it change the way you felt about MTV? About Nirvana?
Do you remember how many commercials ran?
Did you find yourself looking to see it again?
Did you keep your radar up for other "Unplugged' performances?
Did you talk about it with your friends?
(Sorry if you're too young or too old for this reference. Just add your own band and performance: Elvis, Guns & Roses, Hannah Montana, it still works)
Imagine that your radio station is a network instead of one local channel. How many powerful variations of programming focused on your key fans can you create? Yes, focus on making fans, not listeners.
How many times have you sat through a new, bad release by one of your favorite artists? How would you feel if your station provided you the opportunity to hear it once for free before you buy? Would you tune in on the Monday night before it goes on sale to hear it first? How would that make you feel about the station?
I'm not a PD, never wanted to be one and never will. I've worked with some of the best and enjoyed their insights.
If you do strive to be a great PD, go for it and change the rules. You'll be a hero. Then get an agent, become a mercenary and go work for the best paycheck, changing often. You'll have fun, make a lot of money and never worry about your next paycheck or ownership change.
Some may scoff, but the business is changing fast.
We need more leaders and less copiers.
There is great opportunity for the brave, the hungry, the fearless.
What are you doing?
And now, let's return to the sniveling hecklers with their twaddle and tripe....
I'm not in the Atlanta market, so I can't comment about Dave.
However, I can tell you a thing or two about Cox and their Classic Hits format. And, what's been said here is right. They researched it down to the ninth degree, filled a niche, then imported it to several markets where such a niche was also discovered. And it works. (I am the APD for one such station.)
Yes, the comparison to a Wendy's or a McDonald's is appropriate. When you turn on these stations, you know what you're going to get: hit product. Same is true of a Wendy's or a McDonald's. Complain about it all you want...it works. And I find the comparison to satellite radio interesting, too. Their "most listened to" channels are the ones who play the same songs over and over! (A few exceptions yes, but the comparison is valid.) It ain't rocket science!
And yes, that doesn't please the "too cool for the room" crowd that yearns for obscure album cuts, or can't understand why we can't play a deep cut from a certain "cult" act. We hear all the time from those types of listeners in our market. One such the other day...in fact, he even included his picture. Complete with tattoos, a bald head and a t-shirt sporting 4 letter words I won't repeat here. We are frequently accused by these types of "not knowing the music", though I played some of those obscure cuts 35 years ago when I started in radio and have a home library of over 140-thousand tracks. I'm just used to it now. And have a good laugh at some of the stupidity.
What he doesn't understand (and what some of the "too cool" crowd doesn't understand): you're not the target demo of these stations.
Classic "Hits" is not Classic "Rock". They are 2 separate entities...with 2 different targets.
However, I can tell you a thing or two about Cox and their Classic Hits format. And, what's been said here is right. They researched it down to the ninth degree, filled a niche, then imported it to several markets where such a niche was also discovered. And it works. (I am the APD for one such station.)
Yes, the comparison to a Wendy's or a McDonald's is appropriate. When you turn on these stations, you know what you're going to get: hit product. Same is true of a Wendy's or a McDonald's. Complain about it all you want...it works. And I find the comparison to satellite radio interesting, too. Their "most listened to" channels are the ones who play the same songs over and over! (A few exceptions yes, but the comparison is valid.) It ain't rocket science!
And yes, that doesn't please the "too cool for the room" crowd that yearns for obscure album cuts, or can't understand why we can't play a deep cut from a certain "cult" act. We hear all the time from those types of listeners in our market. One such the other day...in fact, he even included his picture. Complete with tattoos, a bald head and a t-shirt sporting 4 letter words I won't repeat here. We are frequently accused by these types of "not knowing the music", though I played some of those obscure cuts 35 years ago when I started in radio and have a home library of over 140-thousand tracks. I'm just used to it now. And have a good laugh at some of the stupidity.
What he doesn't understand (and what some of the "too cool" crowd doesn't understand): you're not the target demo of these stations.
Classic "Hits" is not Classic "Rock". They are 2 separate entities...with 2 different targets.
J
JimmyJames
Guest
What the defenders of blandness ignore is XM's playlist on top tracks is far more varied and noticeably deeper than terrestrial classic rock.
Guess people do like at least some variety.
Guess people do like at least some variety.
M
musicga
Guest
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>I'm not in the Atlanta market, so I can't comment about Dave.
However, I can tell you a thing or two about Cox and their Classic Hits format. And, what's been said here is right. They researched it down to the ninth degree, filled a niche, then imported it to several markets where such a niche was also discovered. And it works. (I am the APD for one such station.)<<<
Actually, a big part of River's success is that Cox Radio uses about 400 grp's of TV for several weeks. Hard to comptete against that. Clear Channel and CBS don't go anywhere near those amounts for TV.
>>>I'm not in the Atlanta market, so I can't comment about Dave.
However, I can tell you a thing or two about Cox and their Classic Hits format. And, what's been said here is right. They researched it down to the ninth degree, filled a niche, then imported it to several markets where such a niche was also discovered. And it works. (I am the APD for one such station.)<<<
Actually, a big part of River's success is that Cox Radio uses about 400 grp's of TV for several weeks. Hard to comptete against that. Clear Channel and CBS don't go anywhere near those amounts for TV.
Actually, a big part of River's success is that Cox Radio uses about 400 grp's of TV for several weeks. Hard to comptete against that. Clear Channel and CBS don't go anywhere near those amounts for TV.
Kinda funny as the BULL is doing tons of TV for their country format. Problem is you tune them in and all you get is Christmas music. Brilliant move Clear Channel.
Kinda funny as the BULL is doing tons of TV for their country format. Problem is you tune them in and all you get is Christmas music. Brilliant move Clear Channel.
A
actuallyinatlantaradio
Guest
Does anyone else notice that everyone complains about the over-played RIVER songs but, yet, the only "classic hits" DAVE-FM plays are the exact same ones that the RIVER plays?...
Just some food for thought...
Just some food for thought...
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