David, Glenn, et al... PPM ratings ??

[SuperRadioFan]

What's the deal? Is the information being made available somewhere? I can't find it .... Not even on Radio-Info. It's a conspiracy!!

I'd like to know how KSWD is doing in comparison to all stations... Also KLAC and gasp!! JILL-FM and Indie... Thanks!!

 

[davideduardo]

What's the deal? Is the information being made available somewhere? I can't find it .... Not even on Radio-Info. It's a conspiracy!!

I'd like to know how KSWD is doing in comparison to all stations... Also KLAC and gasp!! JILL-FM and Indie... Thanks!!

In 18+, adults, in July it was tied for 33rd. Indie was 45th, Jill was 50th and KLAC 36th.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

What's the deal? Is the information being made available somewhere? I can't find it .... Not even on Radio-Info. It's a conspiracy!!

I'd like to know how KSWD is doing in comparison to all stations... Also KLAC and gasp!! JILL-FM and Indie... Thanks!!

In 18+, adults, in July it was tied for 33rd. Indie was 45th, Jill was 50th and KLAC 36th.

Thanks, but how does anyone get that info? Or is Arbitron no longer making it available like they did/do with diaries?

 

[nyc101]

The info is "pre-currency" until October. The info is not supposed to be used for sales or be made public even though those stations that are benefiting from the
PPM are certainly making the info known.

Arbitron board members get a huge money bonus for taking the people meter public by a certain date, which is why
we see them not being interested in getting accurate results for all of it's customers, and instead are barreling full force forward to going live with PPM despite
the the fact that the results are so much different than the diary based methods they have been selling for so many years.

 

[davideduardo]

In 18+, adults, in July it was tied for 33rd. Indie was 45th, Jill was 50th and KLAC 36th.

Thanks, but how does anyone get that info? Or is Arbitron no longer making it available like they did/do with diaries?
[/quote]

No "currency" data is released for LA until October, for the September book. June was released as test data, and July and August are "pre-currency" data, not intended for sales... it's sort of "gettin' to know you, PPM" data. But it is the same panel we have for September, so don't expect any changes.

The data is not released to the trades as it is pre-currency data.

 

[hamNcheese]

the the fact that the results are so much different than the diary based methods they have been selling for so many years.

In 20+ years that I have been aware of Arbitron diaries I know I know 1 person who has filled one out. Then again all my family & friends have cellphones, so they would never be considered at all. For years Arbitron has been flawed, based on recall and 'honesty' not actuall listening. I think that may have had an effect on ratings, stations, companies, jobs, stocks, ect...

Let cuomo get his press. this is the new ratings system. Some may need to adapt. Those that do will continue to make money, those that dont will flush. Its radio. thats the game.

 

[davideduardo]

In 20+ years that I have been aware of Arbitron diaries I know I know 1 person who has filled one out. Then again all my family & friends have cellphones, so they would never be considered at all. For years Arbitron has been flawed, based on recall and 'honesty' not actuall listening. I think that may have had an effect on ratings, stations, companies, jobs, stocks, ect...

The Arbitron sample is "small" compared to the general population... only 1 in about 1000 participate each survey, meaning it would take about 80 years to get asked to participate (including refusals and non-returns) and with the PPM, the sample is one third of the diary 3-month sample. That works, statistically.

What happened in the diary is that people round. It's not malicious, it's not "voting" or anything like that. Folks who really listened for about 50 minutes between 6 and 9 AM, wrote down 6 AM to 9 AM, because they did not deduct the 10 minutes of the alarm on snooze, the time in the bathroom, the time in the closet, the time getting from the house to the car, etc., etc.

So, of course, things change. We believe, or want to believe, that the PPM will eventually be better than the diary. Until it has MRC accreditation, it is not.

 

[radioresearcher]

In 20+ years that I have been aware of Arbitron diaries I know I know 1 person who has filled one out. Then again all my family & friends have cellphones, so they would never be considered at all. For years Arbitron has been flawed, based on recall and 'honesty' not actuall listening. I think that may have had an effect on ratings, stations, companies, jobs, stocks, ect...

The Arbitron sample is "small" compared to the general population... only 1 in about 1000 participate each survey, meaning it would take about 80 years to get asked to participate (including refusals and non-returns) and with the PPM, the sample is one third of the diary 3-month sample. That works, statistically.

What happened in the diary is that people round. It's not malicious, it's not "voting" or anything like that. Folks who really listened for about 50 minutes between 6 and 9 AM, wrote down 6 AM to 9 AM, because they did not deduct the 10 minutes of the alarm on snooze, the time in the bathroom, the time in the closet, the time getting from the house to the car, etc., etc.

So, of course, things change. We believe, or want to believe, that the PPM will eventually be better than the diary. Until it has MRC accreditation, it is not.

The Sound looked better in August - up quite a bit from before. However, the numbers are still not at the level they will need to be for the station to be competitive.

KLOS is the station that delivered some impressive numbers in August and Mark & Brian are doing very well in PPM.

KBIG also has performed much better in PPM than diary - and is red hot in the I.E. (where KOLA, Jose, and Que Buena dominate).

 

[nyc101]

Correct me if Im wrong david (or even if Im right)

There are 12,000,000 in the LA market. There were less than 2200 in tab meters for August. That means each meter represents around 5400 people.




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The Arbitron sample is "small" compared to the general population... only 1 in about 1000 participate each survey, meaning it would take about 80 years to get asked to participate (including refusals and non-returns) and with the PPM, the sample is one third of the diary 3-month sample. That works, statistically.

 

[djmimi]

think the problem is that the PPM's have to represent demographics too...such as race and age. So, to say it represents 5400 people might be without any demographical info. Also, wouldn't they have to be conscious about area as well?? I mean if all the people who wore the things came out of the westside, then you might get some skewy results, wouldn't you??

 

[davideduardo]

Correct me if Im wrong david (or even if Im right)

There are 12,000,000 in the LA market. There were less than 2200 in tab meters for August. That means each meter represents around 5400 people.

There are just a tad under 11 million 12+. The daily in-tab, on which share is based, was 2,420. Weekly in-tab averaged about 2100. There is no "book" figure for weekly in tab.

That said, my point was about the diary... where the PPDV in the LA market has been around 1000 for years. There is no PPDV for meters, of course.

 

[nyc101]

So would you agree that a with much smaller sample, and each PPM representing five times the amount of people that a diary represented, inherently the data will be less accurate in terms of diversification. This is the reason we are seeing the more fringe and minority formats taking a hit.

Additionally, since the panel can be in place from 1-2 years the old concept of a station eating a book of unfortunate diary placement
becomes impossible. Stations cannot survive a year or more of bad PPM placement.

I think you know as well as I do that the powers that represent the Spanish language formats are doing everything they can to keep Arbitron from getting accredited under the current conditions. The only reason Arbitron is in a hurry to go live with PPM in oct is that the board members get huge bonuses for doing so.

The question is do we allow radio stations and formats to go out of business because Arbitron is hitting their self made targets?