Dawn the gm is leaving indie 1031 anything to read into this?

[hotpatrick2004]

Just wondering or is she just got a better job to go to?

Opinions

Hotpatrick out

 

[ajhenderson]

I'm sure someone will complain, but I say good riddance.

No, I never worked there, nor at any other station in LA.

 

[Doctah]

Then please, KJCB, explain your unprovoked hatred of the station. Hate music that's not mainstream, overproduced major-label pop? Hate the idea of a station that dares to program sometimes challenging tunes that can't be heard anywhere else? Disappointed Indie doesn't play Linkin Park 25 times a day?

 

[ajhenderson]

Has nothing to do with the station. I've never listened, don't care. Congratulations for doing something exciting. That's great.

My comments have everything to do with Dawn being a jerk. I don't know what made you think otherwise.

 

[ocer]

Maybe the fact you mentioned the station but not Dawn.

 

[davideduardo]

Hate music that's not mainstream, overproduced major-label pop? Hate the idea of a station that dares to program sometimes challenging tunes that can't be heard anywhere else?

Is a station a success if nobody listens? The fact is that KDLD is only a couple of stations from being dead last in LA ratings. The meaning of that is that they tried something that either wore out or got worse as time went on.

Most of us in radio are not anxious to build a station that garners lots of critical acclaim when it's pretty obvious even the critics are not listening.

 

[scooty430]

"Nobody listens" according to Arbitron.

Unfortunately, as I've always suspected, their ratings are not really very accurate.

Take a look at the story going on in Providence. A DJ's wife turned in six diaries that were faked - all written out to indicate heavy listening to her husband's show on WPRO.

After the discovery, Arbitron retracted the data and reissued the ratings. WPRO subsequently dropped from 4th to 9th place.

You mean to tell me that six little diaries carry that much weight? Unbelievable.

Now let's consider the switch to PPM in Los Angeles. Suddenly, some stations are way up, and some are way down. This can mean two things: either the ratings used for years were way off, or the PPM ratings are way off. (Or they are both way off.) Either way, that really doesn't reflect well on Arbitron.

As for Indie, people hip enough to listen to Indie would not be willing to wear a PPM for petty cash. They have a demo that is Westside, affluent, young, educated. It's been widely publicized that Arbitron is having a hard time finding people like this to wear the PPMs.

Indie has survived this long, and hopefully will continue. The ROAR I recently heard when Indie's name was announced at the Henry Ford Ampitheater's LA Film Festival tells me that "nobody listens" is complete B.S. More power to Indie.

 

[Talking Furniture]

"Nobody listens" according to Arbitron.

Unfortunately, as I've always suspected, their ratings are not really very accurate.

Take a look at the story going on in Providence. A DJ's wife turned in six diaries that were faked - all written out to indicate heavy listening to her husband's show on WPRO.

After the discovery, Arbitron retracted the data and reissued the ratings. WPRO subsequently dropped from 4th to 9th place.

You mean to tell me that six little diaries carry that much weight? Unbelievable.

Now let's consider the switch to PPM in Los Angeles. Suddenly, some stations are way up, and some are way down. This can mean two things: either the ratings used for years were way off, or the PPM ratings are way off. (Or they are both way off.) Either way, that really doesn't reflect well on Arbitron.

As for Indie, people hip enough to listen to Indie would not be willing to wear a PPM for petty cash. They have a demo that is Westside, affluent, young, educated. It's been widely publicized that Arbitron is having a hard time finding people like this to wear the PPMs.

Indie has survived this long, and hopefully will continue. The ROAR I recently heard when Indie's name was announced at the Henry Ford Ampitheater's LA Film Festival tells me that "nobody listens" is complete B.S. More power to Indie.

The vanity of this position is so sad. The "hip" people who listen are either ignoring or being ignored & defrauded by the ratings system that, while certainly flawed, manages to put a relative order of listenership to the scores of radio stations in the Los Angeles area. Obviously, someone listens to Indie and enjoys it. But, what keeps getting confused in all of this emotional blather is that Indie is hardly registering in the lineup of radio stations in the market. Arbitron doesn't measure "hip" it measures exposure to the signal. That's all. And, this exposure dictates to a great degree, the business success of the enterprise. It has nothing to do with Providence anymore than a crooked ref means all NBA games are fixed. And, I'm sure Ralph Nader gets a big hand whenever he's introduced too. Doesn't mean his candidacy has a chance in hell.

 

[ajhenderson]

Maybe the fact you mentioned the station but not Dawn.

Hmmm...

The title was: "Dawn the gm is leaving indie 1031..."

I said: "I'm sure some people will complain, but I say good riddance.:

Exactly what would I be saying good riddance to since the station was still around? The object of my comments was "Dawn the gm".

To prevent people from calling me a disgruntled former employee, I added in that I never worked at the station, as in I never worked with Dawn and hate her because she fired me. It's simple English.

 

[davideduardo]

Take a look at the story going on in Providence. A DJ's wife turned in six diaries that were faked - all written out to indicate heavy listening to her husband's show on WPRO.

Actually, it changed the morning ratings from 4th to 9th. The difference was, however, just a few tenths of a point, as all the stations were very compacted in that particular share range.

You mean to tell me that six little diaries carry that much weight? Unbelievable.

If 4th was, let's say, 4.4 and 9th was 3.9 and enough diaries were in the family, yes, 6 diaries represent almost 4,000 persons in AQH. Ratings are a poll, not a census. And the cheating was caught.

Now let's consider the switch to PPM in Los Angeles. Suddenly, some stations are way up, and some are way down. This can mean two things: either the ratings used for years were way off, or the PPM ratings are way off. (Or they are both way off.) Either way, that really doesn't reflect well on Arbitron.

Sure it does. The Diary was the best method from the 60's till recently, and will continue to be used in nearly 250 markets due to cost... the PPM is not economically supportable outside the first 50 to maybe 75 markets. The PPM is better, but gets different results.

The diary measures cume, TSL and memory. The PPM measures cume and TSL. In the diary, memor makes people round their listening, almost always upwards. The diary allows short listening spans to be forgotten. The diarykeeper generally does not register stations tuned in by other people. It has defects, but until miniature electronics and computer technology developed, it was impossible. On the other hand, it is better, but very, very expensive.

As for Indie, people hip enough to listen to Indie would not be willing to wear a PPM for petty cash. They have a demo that is Westside, affluent, young, educated. It's been widely publicized that Arbitron is having a hard time finding people like this to wear the PPMs.

That's not true. I have seen no such credible reports, and I have been on the development panels of Arbitron going back to Philly in 2002 and read every reputable report about the PPM.

Indie has survived this long, and hopefully will continue.

The noise about switching to a KLYY simulcast is getting very loud. I don't give Indie 90 days.

The ROAR I recently heard when Indie's name was announced at the Henry Ford Ampitheater's LA Film Festival tells me that "nobody listens" is complete B.S. More power to Indie.

A thousand people in a market where the leading station cumes over 3,000,000 is not even anecdotally interesting or impressive.

You have presented a list of excuses. You forgot the one about the signal, though.

 

[Indielover]

"The noise about switching to a KLYY simulcast is getting very loud. I don't give Indie 90 days".

Not that it wasn't inevitable, but if this happens, a big shame indeed..commercial broadcast radio dies that day, aside from a few stations around the country...won't be much left but corporate crap...for LA there'll be the Sound (not indie, but the best there'll be until thats gone too...pathetic

 

[davideduardo]

Not that it wasn't inevitable, but if this happens, a big shame indeed..commercial broadcast radio dies that day, aside from a few stations around the country...won't be much left but corporate crap...for LA there'll be the Sound (not indie, but the best there'll be until thats gone too...pathetic

The Sound is almost as low rated as Indie, and that on a full signal.

You are lamenting the passing of a station that is both signal challenged and at its lowest point in ratings ever, and placing on a pedastal a second station that listeners in LA have soundly rejected.

 

[scooty430]

"And the cheating was caught."

THIS time it was. And AFTER the stats had already been published.

"That's not true. I have seen no such credible reports, and I have been on the development panels of Arbitron going back to Philly in 2002 and read every reputable report about the PPM."

There was an LA Times article, to give you one example among many, about difficulty getting people to wear meters, particularly younger people, as well as difficulty reaching all segments of the population. Quite well publicized. There have even some threads on this board about Arbitron paying younger people more to get them to wear the meters. Do a google on it.

"I don't give Indie 90 days."

You said that four years ago.

"A thousand people in a market where the leading station cumes over 3,000,000 is not even anecdotally interesting or impressive."

I'll take 1000 people over six any day.

And by the way, the Ford Ampitheater holds 2500, not 1000.

 

[davideduardo]

"And the cheating was caught."

THIS time it was. And AFTER the stats had already been published.

This happens so seldom that it is an anomoly, not a frequent occurance.

"That's not true. I have seen no such credible reports, and I have been on the development panels of Arbitron going back to Philly in 2002 and read every reputable report about the PPM."

There was an LA Times article, to give you one example among many, about difficulty getting people to wear meters, particularly younger people, as well as difficulty reaching all segments of the population. Quite well publicized. There have even some threads on this board about Arbitron paying younger people more to get them to wear the meters. Do a google on it.

Meters are placed by household, not the individual. In the diary world, DST techniques gave a few dollars more to young white men and some ethnic cells to improve the return rate (they are not offered anything at recruit time). In the PPM, there is a totally different procedure, and there have been no similar-to-what-you-say reports on cooperation rates since it's a panel based survey and the metrics are different.

"I don't give Indie 90 days."

You said that four years ago.

No, I would never give a station a scant 90 days. I am amazed it has lasted so long with such miserable ratings.

 

[scooty430]

"Nobody listens" according to Arbitron.

Unfortunately, as I've always suspected, their ratings are not really very accurate.

Take a look at the story going on in Providence. A DJ's wife turned in six diaries that were faked - all written out to indicate heavy listening to her husband's show on WPRO.

After the discovery, Arbitron retracted the data and reissued the ratings. WPRO subsequently dropped from 4th to 9th place.

You mean to tell me that six little diaries carry that much weight? Unbelievable.

Now let's consider the switch to PPM in Los Angeles. Suddenly, some stations are way up, and some are way down. This can mean two things: either the ratings used for years were way off, or the PPM ratings are way off. (Or they are both way off.) Either way, that really doesn't reflect well on Arbitron.

As for Indie, people hip enough to listen to Indie would not be willing to wear a PPM for petty cash. They have a demo that is Westside, affluent, young, educated. It's been widely publicized that Arbitron is having a hard time finding people like this to wear the PPMs.

Indie has survived this long, and hopefully will continue. The ROAR I recently heard when Indie's name was announced at the Henry Ford Ampitheater's LA Film Festival tells me that "nobody listens" is complete B.S. More power to Indie.

The vanity of this position is so sad. The "hip" people who listen are either ignoring or being ignored & defrauded by the ratings system that, while certainly flawed, manages to put a relative order of listenership to the scores of radio stations in the Los Angeles area. Obviously, someone listens to Indie and enjoys it. But, what keeps getting confused in all of this emotional blather is that Indie is hardly registering in the lineup of radio stations in the market. Arbitron doesn't measure "hip" it measures exposure to the signal. That's all. And, this exposure dictates to a great degree, the business success of the enterprise. It has nothing to do with Providence anymore than a crooked ref means all NBA games are fixed. And, I'm sure Ralph Nader gets a big hand whenever he's introduced too. Doesn't mean his candidacy has a chance in hell.

I think a better sports analogy would be steroids in baseball. Everybody was cheating.

As for Ralph Nader, that analogy doesn't make sense. At a Nader rally, you've got an audience of Nader fans. At the LA Film Festival where they are showing a surfing movie to 2500 people, there is no real reason for the audience to be Indie fans. So when the host says, "tonight's show was sponsored by Indie 103," and the crowd hoots and hollers, that does say something. They didn't cheer for the other sponsors the host mentioned.

 

[scooty430]

"This happens so seldom that it is an anomoly, not a frequent occurance."

There is no way for us to really know this. Inaccurate reports and problems related to tiny sample sizes could be commonplace. The fact that it happened at all is cause for concern.

 

[Talking Furniture]

"Nobody listens" according to Arbitron.

Unfortunately, as I've always suspected, their ratings are not really very accurate.

Take a look at the story going on in Providence. A DJ's wife turned in six diaries that were faked - all written out to indicate heavy listening to her husband's show on WPRO.

After the discovery, Arbitron retracted the data and reissued the ratings. WPRO subsequently dropped from 4th to 9th place.

You mean to tell me that six little diaries carry that much weight? Unbelievable.

Now let's consider the switch to PPM in Los Angeles. Suddenly, some stations are way up, and some are way down. This can mean two things: either the ratings used for years were way off, or the PPM ratings are way off. (Or they are both way off.) Either way, that really doesn't reflect well on Arbitron.

As for Indie, people hip enough to listen to Indie would not be willing to wear a PPM for petty cash. They have a demo that is Westside, affluent, young, educated. It's been widely publicized that Arbitron is having a hard time finding people like this to wear the PPMs.

Indie has survived this long, and hopefully will continue. The ROAR I recently heard when Indie's name was announced at the Henry Ford Ampitheater's LA Film Festival tells me that "nobody listens" is complete B.S. More power to Indie.

The vanity of this position is so sad. The "hip" people who listen are either ignoring or being ignored & defrauded by the ratings system that, while certainly flawed, manages to put a relative order of listenership to the scores of radio stations in the Los Angeles area. Obviously, someone listens to Indie and enjoys it. But, what keeps getting confused in all of this emotional blather is that Indie is hardly registering in the lineup of radio stations in the market. Arbitron doesn't measure "hip" it measures exposure to the signal. That's all. And, this exposure dictates to a great degree, the business success of the enterprise. It has nothing to do with Providence anymore than a crooked ref means all NBA games are fixed. And, I'm sure Ralph Nader gets a big hand whenever he's introduced too. Doesn't mean his candidacy has a chance in hell.

I think a better sports analogy would be steroids in baseball. Everybody was cheating.

As for Ralph Nader, that analogy doesn't make sense. At a Nader rally, you've got an audience of Nader fans. At the LA Film Festival where they are showing a surfing movie to 2500 people, there is no real reason for the audience to be Indie fans. So when the host says, "tonight's show was sponsored by Indie 103," and the crowd hoots and hollers, that does say something. They didn't cheer for the other sponsors the host mentioned.

OK, for the sake of discussion: "Everybody" in baseball wasn't cheating. Careful with your hyperbolic facts.

At the LA Film Festival where they are showing a surfing movie to 2500 (1000) people, there is no real reason for the audience to be Indie fans. Why wouldn't there be Indie fans in the crowd? You just said, " So when the host says, "tonight's show was sponsored by Indie 103," and the crowd hoots and hollers, that does say something. They didn't cheer for the other sponsors the host mentioned. So, Indie sponsors a film showing, probably gave away free tickets to help pad the house, and you're impressed that the station got applause? Wow.

 

[Indielover]

Not that it wasn't inevitable, but if this happens, a big shame indeed..commercial broadcast radio dies that day, aside from a few stations around the country...won't be much left but corporate crap...for LA there'll be the Sound (not indie, but the best there'll be until thats gone too...pathetic

The Sound is almost as low rated as Indie, and that on a full signal.

You are lamenting the passing of a station that is both signal challenged and at its lowest point in ratings ever, and placing on a pedastal a second station that listeners in LA have soundly rejected.

I'm well aware of the lack of ratings, I wouldn't expect you to understand nor do I care if you do, but as a music fan, indie has been the most diverse non corporate commercial station that has ever existed, there has never been anything better...The Sound is not indie at all, however given the sad state of bad corporate radio in LA it is second best.

 

[LKellerIII]

Not that it wasn't inevitable, but if this happens, a big shame indeed..commercial broadcast radio dies that day, aside from a few stations around the country...won't be much left but corporate crap...for LA there'll be the Sound (not indie, but the best there'll be until thats gone too...pathetic

The Sound is almost as low rated as Indie, and that on a full signal.

You are lamenting the passing of a station that is both signal challenged and at its lowest point in ratings ever, and placing on a pedastal a second station that listeners in LA have soundly rejected.

I'm well aware of the lack of ratings, I wouldn't expect you to understand nor do I care if you do, but as a music fan, indie has been the most diverse non corporate commercial station that has ever existed, there has never been anything better...The Sound is not indie at all, however given the sad state of bad corporate radio in LA it is second best.

When you say "Indie is the most diverse non-corporate commercial station that ever existed" - I figure you're too young to remember "free form" FM radio from 1967 into the early 70s - KPPC and KMET in Los Angeles, KMPX and KSAN in San Francisco, KPRI in San Diego, and many others nationwide.

The problem then - as now - is that corporations (either big or small) generally own the stations. Metromedia (a media corporation) owned KMET in those days. Due to FCC imposed ownership limits, they could not own more than eight (or whatever) stations nationwide, but that didn't stop them from slowly converting KMET into a more homogeneous "album rock" station with a limited play list, and long commercial stop sets with big name corporate products to sell.

Unfortunately, the majority of listeners like stations with limited playlists - and by the early 70s, KLOS was beating KMET in the ratings with their "Rock N' Stereo"format, which was a mixture of top 40 single hits and album cuts. For most listeners, that was as "free-form" as they cared to get.

At the beginning of free-form rock FM, I'm sure Metromedia took the chance because nobody much was listening to KMET (or FM in general) in those days, so they had nothing to lose by turning their dead station over to a "bunch of hippies." But once free form radio got some ratings, it became clear there was real money in FM - and the more restricted formats came in.

Why can't people like you have one or two stations like Indie to listen to? I sympathize. I used to think the same thing.

 

[radioresearcher]

David... quit wasting your time and breath. This happens every single time the Indie discussion comes up. We hear about "Rolling Stone Station Of The Year." I'd rather be KROQ and be the highest billing station in America.
Critical acclaim means nothing - look at TV. "Arrested Development" won two or three Emmy's and it means nothing. The show is long gone. But "According To Jim" is starting like its eighth season.

With "Jose" doing very well in PPM now, there's every reason for Entravision to expand its signal reach and put it on the two 103.1's - and it will save cost for them.