Before the crowding of the AM band and interference started happening in the 1980s, how far could the better AM signals travel during the day? I've heard claims that WABC's signal was so strong it hit the Pittsburgh ratings book, and an old ad by KIRO (Seattle clear channel) claimed that it got substantial ratings in counties a hundred miles away or more.
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Daytime AM reception in the past
- Thread starter installLSC
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A 50,000 watt AM station during the day in the 1960's could easily reach 200 - 250 miles in good weather. This is based on what I remember from the daytime DXing back then. Having a fairly good radio and with no fluorescent lights or TV operating was a key. I can only use my own experiences from that time in Cincinnati. I was regularly able to pick up WJR (760) from Detroit and (before that area of the band got jammed up), WGAR in Cleveland which was then on 1220. With a Hallicrafters table model (that also had several shortwave bands along with AM) that had a long wire winding around in my backyard for one aerial and also a second one connected to a furnace pipe in the basement, and a connected ground wire, I picked up KDKA (1020) one hot July afternoon in 1964 (heard Bob Prince doing a Pirates' game) and also in late afternoon later that same year, KMOX (1120) in St. Louis. WHAS (840) in Louisville came in well although that's only about 100 or so air miles and WOWO in Fort Wayne. There were, of course, the smaller stations in power I could get from: Indianapolis, Lexington, Ky., Columbus, Ohio and also WCHS (580) in Charleston, West Virginia.
Now, of course, not only do you have the AM band crowded (maybe overcrowded?), but so much more interference around - particularly the constant whine of near-by cable (for TV, the internet, etc.) which is heard whether the various equipment used with it is in in use or not.
Now, of course, not only do you have the AM band crowded (maybe overcrowded?), but so much more interference around - particularly the constant whine of near-by cable (for TV, the internet, etc.) which is heard whether the various equipment used with it is in in use or not.
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It may have not been steady but in the right time and place in the Fall and Winter I could get a listenable signal from WLS in West TN on my car radio.
How far the AM signals could go in the daytime depended on three things.... Power, dial position, and ground conductivity. At night it was power and how open the channel was. A 5,000-watt station low on the dial in an area with good ground conductivity gets out MUCH better than a 50,000-watt station higher on the dial in an area with poorer ground conductivity. Go to www.radio-locator.com and compare 5,000-watt KFYR in Bismark, North Dakota to 50,000-watt WCKY in Cincinnati and you'll see what I need. Directional antennas also come into play....most often at night when stations protect each other from skywave interference. WWKB in Buffalo is regularly heard by DX-ers (hobbyists) in Europe, but going west, it's barely audible in Erie, Pennsylvania less than 100 miles away.
I didn't realize that I hit post too soon earlier today because I was short on time. What I meant to say was that I could get WLS at times in the daytime, sometimes even around Noon.
When I've been in Portland (OR) listened to KIRO without much problem.
But that was when they were doing a lot of news.
But that was when they were doing a lot of news.
From what I learned, people listened to more distant stations than they do now. In Charleston for example in the 60s and 70s, a ton of people listened to WAPE Jacksonville on 690. Now as WOKV, few listen. But then, that signal competed with WTMA and other Charleston AMs very heavily. In places like Myrtle Beach where there were few other options, it had a lot of listeners.
Even Columbia AMs like WIS had a large reach. There were ads in the 40s and 50s that said WIS had listeners in almost every county of SC plus a large number of counties in GA. That 5kw signal was huge.
Even Columbia AMs like WIS had a large reach. There were ads in the 40s and 50s that said WIS had listeners in almost every county of SC plus a large number of counties in GA. That 5kw signal was huge.
Today on a good AM radio in my hometown 14 miles southwest of Boston, I can get WFAN-660 and WCBS-880 New York during the day.
Before WSRO-650 and WAMG-890 came onto the scene, it was possible to get WFAN (formerly WNBC) and WCBS during the daytime on medium-quality AM radios in my hometown.
On the south-facing part of Cape Cod back in the 1970's (and presumably, still today), one should be able to get all the 50,000 watt New York AM stations day and night. In fact, I believe WFAN actually has gotten into a couple of Cape Cod ratings books (and may get in the Cape ratings more often during Spring and Summer since they will carry the New York Yankees next season).
Back in the mid-1970's, my late Mom picked-up the old WTOP-1500 in Washington at 2 in the afternoon during January. They were the flagship of the Washington Capitals, and the then-expansion team was playing a Saturday matinee which my Mom (a big hockey fan, even though the Boston Bruins were her favorite team) got to listen to.
Before WSRO-650 and WAMG-890 came onto the scene, it was possible to get WFAN (formerly WNBC) and WCBS during the daytime on medium-quality AM radios in my hometown.
On the south-facing part of Cape Cod back in the 1970's (and presumably, still today), one should be able to get all the 50,000 watt New York AM stations day and night. In fact, I believe WFAN actually has gotten into a couple of Cape Cod ratings books (and may get in the Cape ratings more often during Spring and Summer since they will carry the New York Yankees next season).
Back in the mid-1970's, my late Mom picked-up the old WTOP-1500 in Washington at 2 in the afternoon during January. They were the flagship of the Washington Capitals, and the then-expansion team was playing a Saturday matinee which my Mom (a big hockey fan, even though the Boston Bruins were her favorite team) got to listen to.
The difference is more increased noise level and stations falling into disrepair than any real difference in propagation. In West Central Ohio in the 70s and 80s, CKLW blasted in from it's southwest lobe, WJR was a little weaker with it's non-directional (they got equal around Lima. WLS and WCFL were there but weak during the day. WABC would fade in around 4 and was often one of the first to fade out, but sometimes rebounded after sunrise (a phenomenon I've noticed-maybe I'll call it the post-dawn phenomenon, where stations to the east fade back in for awhile after sunrise). Some of the weaker stations we could get included WHLO, Akron, CFCO, Chatham, ONT along with WLAP, Lexington. WCHS and WCAW, Charleston WV were there but weak. WKRC, Cincinnati on 550 was listenable. I remember being on the way back from one of our Michigan vacations around 1970 and seeing a billboard for WKZO, Kalamazoo, saying "for the next 300 miles, WKZO". That was audible in Western Ohio, as was WSBT, South Bend. Just to name a few
I lived in Adrian, MI from 1954 to 1959. Adrian is located about 35 miles NW of Toledo, OH and 60 miles SW of Detroit. At the time, the local newspaper, the Adrian Daily Telegram, listed radio programming for just four AM stations. They were:
WJR-760 Detroit
WSPD-1370 Toledo, OH
WABJ-1490 Adrian, MI (local)
And...get this....
WLW-700 Cincinnati (over 175 miles away!)
WJR-760 Detroit
WSPD-1370 Toledo, OH
WABJ-1490 Adrian, MI (local)
And...get this....
WLW-700 Cincinnati (over 175 miles away!)
Having grown up in New Jersey and having gone on many trips with my parents through Pennsylvania in the 70s, I can say that the signal of WABC started to become barely audible once you got into the mountains after Harrisburg during the day.
The reason they made the ratings in the Pittsburgh area was because of their nighttime signal.
The ground conductivity in that part of the country is nothing like it is in parts of the middle of the country and parts of the west.
Even though I grew up in south Jersey right near Philadelphia, WABC was my favorite station.
It was easy to hear daytime on most radios unless it was a weak small hand held transistor radio in which case the local WTMR 800 from Camden would splatter it out during the day but down at the shore on Long Beach Island the same distance away from their transmitter, WABC had an almost local sounding signal.
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Growing up in Iowa, I had no idea how bad daytime AM reception could be until traveling to the southeast states and how quickly stations would fade out. Same is true in northern MN. My brother in the late 60s would listen to WLS in the daytime in his car, not super strong but usable and we were over 200 miles from Chicago.
In Southeastern Michigan, you could get, and still get Chicago AMs in the daytime. In fact, near Frankenmuth in the coldest part of Winter, WSCR, WGN, and WBBM STOPPED THE SCAN on my factory Buick Car Radio. It seems to have DSP detection, as it also has Sirius/XM Radio. You can get WLS and WMVP along US 23 and on I-75 north of where they merge near Flint. You can barely get WLS by the time you get to Macomb County, but you can still hear WSCR, WGN, and WBBM some, but noticeably less than in Flint or Ann Arbor. By the time you get to Lansing, you can hear WCPT or whatever the call letters are this week, and WIND mixing with WRDT. I think the WKZO sign said for the next 100 miles, and the WJR sign said for the next 200 miles. WMVP is one of the most powerful skywaves in Southeast Michigan, often approaching 10 mV/m on a good night. WOWO also used to be close to that strong. WCKY is also close to that after they go directional. A few times during the 1960s, I heard WCFL and WOWO on a Hearever Rocket Radio with about a 100 foot long wire antenna. It had a Germanium Diode. There's a nostalgia knockoff, but I think it has a Silicon Diode. In any event, the screws on the switchplates that always worked so well are often not attached to the ground wire in newer construction, so it's difficult to find good places to listen to it. I don't think the finger stop on a fake rotary dial phone is electrically connected either. Man, did that Rocket Radio pull in WJJD in Park Ridge well! Heard WGN on it there but oddly, not WBBM. I did notice that WGN and WBBM often ran the same spots at EXACTLY the same time, and maybe I missed it that way when I was trying. There wasn't even a WMAQ/WNBC or WCCO/WHAS TOH Network News echo, they were so time locked! Maybe they locked into WWV. WJJD signed off at KSL Sunset at the time.
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WLW is another example. The signal can be heard all over WV during the daytime in the colder months, and I've heard it as far S as Knoxville, TN. WSM also has that kind of reach. I've heard it several times in the Charleston area.
I was in Athens, OH last year over Thanksgiving and I thought I heard WSCR and/or WGN very weakly at about 12 noon. That's about 360 miles. WOKV Jacksonville is one of the few AMs with that type of reach now. That can be heard from the northern suburbs of Tampa (once you're away from 680 in St. Pete) all the way to Cape Hatteras in NC daytime.
I was in Athens, OH last year over Thanksgiving and I thought I heard WSCR and/or WGN very weakly at about 12 noon. That's about 360 miles. WOKV Jacksonville is one of the few AMs with that type of reach now. That can be heard from the northern suburbs of Tampa (once you're away from 680 in St. Pete) all the way to Cape Hatteras in NC daytime.
Only a few years ago, I could hear a trace of WOKV daytime in Tampa behind the splatter of 680 but with all the extra electronic interference from household gadgets now, those days are gone.
But yeah, get out of the interference of the city and you begin to hear it.
I recall reading some DXing log online somewhere that claimed to hear WOKV daytime out on the eastern tip of Massachusetts where it's an all salt water path.
Back in the 70s, I could often hear 'The Big Ape' from New Jersey around sunset until they switched power and direction.
But yeah, get out of the interference of the city and you begin to hear it.
I recall reading some DXing log online somewhere that claimed to hear WOKV daytime out on the eastern tip of Massachusetts where it's an all salt water path.
Back in the 70s, I could often hear 'The Big Ape' from New Jersey around sunset until they switched power and direction.
I think WLW was so powerful in the 1930's with its 500,000 watts that longtime-listeners in distant points were still familiar with the station those many years later. I know up into the 1960's, the Louisville Courier-Journal's radio-TV page listed WLW's programming along with that of other local & regional radio outlets.
On the west coast in present day, you hear radio stations from all over the Pacific Ocean bordering states all of the time. For example, LA radio stations (such as KNX), all can be heard up in Washington State all of the time. Ditto for KGO.
RE: people tuning to DX stations for non-DX reasons:
I read in an IRCA publication a long time ago that KGO San Francisco used to make it in the ratings books in the late 1970's and early 1980's.
This, of course, was when night time talk was still basically a choice between Larry King and Herb Jepko. KGO would be considered DX in the Seattle area (moreso today, as other nearby stations have weakened reception of KGO's signal).
But people in Washington used to tune in, because their hosts were all over the political map, and were quite good.
I read in an IRCA publication a long time ago that KGO San Francisco used to make it in the ratings books in the late 1970's and early 1980's.
This, of course, was when night time talk was still basically a choice between Larry King and Herb Jepko. KGO would be considered DX in the Seattle area (moreso today, as other nearby stations have weakened reception of KGO's signal).
But people in Washington used to tune in, because their hosts were all over the political map, and were quite good.
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