Daytime AM reception in the past

[HGR1290]

As a kid in Northern Michigan, I had a DX-160 radio and a long wire antenna in the back yard.

I could easily hear WLW during the day at Higgins Lake, along with most of the Chicago clears.

WKZO was easy, and WKRC on 550 was in there most days as well.

Night time was great with HUGE signals from WCFL, CKLW, WOWO and a bunch of others.

This was a very quiet location. The closest AM was WHGR 1290 at Houghton Lake. There was also the old 1590 WGRY at Grayling. A few others as well, but not much.

FM was similar, you had WJGS at 98.5, WWRM on 106.7, and WKJF on 92.9. That was about it for FM at the time.

The key back then was the word quiet.....which is very rare any more, between band overcrowding and electronic noise.

 

[davideduardo]

As a kid in Northern Michigan, I had a DX-160 radio and a long wire antenna in the back yard.

This was a very quiet location. The closest AM was WHGR 1290 at Houghton Lake. There was also the old 1590 WGRY at Grayling. A few others as well, but not much.

FM was similar, you had WJGS at 98.5, WWRM on 106.7, and WKJF on 92.9. That was about it for FM at the time.

The key back then was the word quiet.....which is very rare any more, between band overcrowding and electronic noise.

As a pre-teen and early teen 20 miles NNW of Traverse City in Leelenau County, I had similar experiences. The daytime local was WTCM-1400, and usable signals from WHGR and WMBN-1340. More distant ones were WLS WBBM and WMAQ, the Sault St Marie AMs on 920 and 1050, Rogers City on 960, and several of the Milwaukee stations like WTMJ. 680 from the UP was also listenable.

At night, anything was possible from Hawaii and Australia to Egypt and Yugoslavia and Argentina. WABC, WSM, KOMA, CHUM were all "friends" before we had reliable TV service.

The radio isolation made a DXer out of me, and that got me into radio as a $1.15 an hour career. I even did a summer gig signing on WCCW in Traverse City after it came on the air and ran the board for a guy who did a show for Mexican migrant workers in Spanish. Life in the Cherry Capital of the World.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Wow, David. You worked at WCCW? The owner was a man named John Anderson as I recall. I remember hearing it back in the early 1960s, and the owner told the story behind the call letters on the air. It seems like he said that he had worked on a Merchant Marine ship and its radio call letters were (drum roll) WCCW. My family stayed on Crystal Lake a few times. I remember WCCW saying it was 5000 watts and being surprised it didn't have a better signal about 20 miles West of Traverse City. We drove into the Old Mission Peninsula and saw the numerous summer only cabins that the migrant workers stayed in. How amazing that one of your first jobs involved a Spanish Language program! Talk about getting "typecast"! You and William Shatner! I also pointed out in another post that what is called Nanagosa Trail near Suttons Bay is essentially Chicago's Lake Shore Drive Way Up North! Other side of Lake Michigan, same side of Grand Traverse Bay. Another interesting thing happened when I was staying near there one year, and another tenant in the same Triplex Complex having their radio on Tiger Baseball, and it picking up WTCM so much better than we could hear it on ours, with their radio in the window where they could hear it outside. I finally figured out that the reason it came in so well is that they were listening on WTCM-FM 103.5, and it just looked like it was on AM 1400! 1400 had a a lot of cochannel interference, and of course theirs had none!

 

[davideduardo]

Wow, David. You worked at WCCW? The owner was a man named John Anderson as I recall. I remember hearing it back in the early 1960s, and the owner told the story behind the call letters on the air. It seems like he said that it was on a Merchant Marine ship and its call letters were (drum roll) WCCW. My family stayed on Crystal Lake a few times. I remember them saying it was 5000 watts and being surprised it didn't have a better signal about 20 miles West of Traverse City.

I first visited WCCW when they were building studios on the mezzanine of the definitely second tier Grand Traverse Hotel which was a block or two inland from Front St on Division (IIRC). They were building partitions in classic 60's wood panel style. Of course, the calls were heralded as meaning Cherry Capital of the World.

The signal was also bad 20 miles north. The transmitter was west of the city, on one of the rolling sandy hills. The conductivity was obviously poor... they would have done better going south of town, but I believe they had an adjacent channel issue with WOOD and WILS.

It was either the next year or the one after that I ran the board. Later, they moved to a very nice single level building in a sort of chalet st

I also pointed out in another post that what is called Nanagosa Trail near Suttons Bay is essentially Chicago's Lake Shore Drive Way Up North!

I was living about half way between Suttons Bay and Northport. Great DX location. No local or semi local signal to worry about at night.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

WCCW stayed on that same sandy hill location until fairly recently. They moved to a location SSW of Traverse City and went to 15/7.5 U4, with three towers in a line day, and a fourth in a line night. They had a CP for 50000 watts day, after having done extensive ground conductivity measurements for not only WCCW, but extending WOOD's radials from their proof of performance, which combined with the extensions clearly demonstrated that WHGR 1290 would not have had to have been sacrificed if measured data had been available from the new WOOD site. The engineer at DLR that prepared the application told me that the data for WGVU 1480 was too far away to be used. The extensions showed 1 mS/m areas where the M-3 Map said 8 mS/m. Rich Fry has been skeptical about the measured data, but I believe it, having traveled in Northern and Western Michigan since I was a child with a transistor radio in the car and in remote locations on visits and vacations. The WOOD application also measured a radial or two from WCCW for their daytime application for 20000 watts. Toward Houghton Lake from the sandy hill location, the measured conductivity was 0.1 mS/m over much of the path, in an area showing 8 mS/m on the M-3 Map. Those radials from the applications are available online from CDBS, and I am confident that they are quite accurate.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Over the years I have DXed on a fairly regular basis from a number of long term locations. I have posted some of my logs in the past, and I will look to see if any are still on line before posting it all again.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Location-West Central Michigan
Receiver-Sony CF Series AM-FM
AM Antenna-Twisted wires together from twin lead from outdoor 20 foot mast TV antenna.
Preamp-AM One Transistor Preamp built modified slightly from Tom Kneitel book "103 Simple Transistor Projects"
Era-Late 1970s to 1980.

540 WYLO Jackson, WI
550 WKRC Cincinnati
560 WIND Chicago
570 WMAM Marinette, WI
580 WILL Urbana, IL
590 WKZO Kalamazoo
600 WTAC Flint
610 WTVN Columbus
620 WTMJ Milwaukee
630 CFCO Chatham
670 WMAQ Chicago
680 WDBC Escanaba, MI
690 WATO 690
700 WLW Cincinnati
710 CHYR Leamington
720 WGN Chicago
730 WVIC East Lansing
740 CBL Toronto
760 WJR Detroit
780 WBBM Chicago
790 WSGW Saginaw
800 CKLW Windsor

More later. AFK.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Correction

690 WLKE Oshkosh

Continuing

810 WJPW Rockford, MI
820 WAIT Chicago
840 WHAS Louisville
850 WKBZ Muskegon
860 CJBC Toronto
870 WKAR East Lansing
880 WRFD Worthington, OH
890 WLS Chicago
900 WATC Gaylord, MI
910 WFDF Flint
910 WDOR Sturgeon Bay, WI (West Side on Car Radio with WFDF)
920 WOKY Milwaukee
930 WBCK Battle Creek
940 WJOR South Haven
950 WWJ Detroit
970 WKHM Jackson, MI
980 WAOP Otsego, MI
990 WERK Muncie (with WRNN Clare off)
1000 WCFL Chicago
1010 WITL Lansing, MI
1050 WPAG Ann Arbor
1060 WBMB West Branch, MI
1070 CHOK Sarnia
1080 WOAP Owosso, MI
1090 WMUS Muskegon
1100 WWWE Cleveland
1110 WUNN Mason, MI
1110 WJML Petoskey
1130 WCAR Detroit
1130 WISN Milwaukee
1140 WKWM Kentwood, MI
1150 WCEN Mt. Pleasant, MI
1160 WJJD Chicago
1170 WLKE Waupun,WI
1190 WOWO Fort Wayne
1210 WKNX Saginaw, MI
1220 WBCH Hastings, MI
1230 WCUZ Grand Rapids
1250 WXOX Bay City, MI
1250 WEMP Milwaukee
1260 WJBL Holland, MI
1280 WFYC Alma, MI
1290 WHGR Houghton Lake
1300 WOOD Grand Rapids
1310 WCCW Traverse City
1320 WILS Lansing, MI
1330 WHBL Sheboygan
1330 WTRX Flint (West Side of steel buildings on car radio)
1340 WLAV Grand Rapids
1350 WJEB Gladwin
1360 WKMI Kalamazoo
1370 WWAM Cadillac
1380 WPLB Greenville, MI
1390 WCER Charlotte
1400 WSAM Saginaw, MI

AFK.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Continuing

1410 WGRD Grand Rapids
1430 WION Ionia
1440 WBCM Bay City, MI
1460 WBRN Big Rapids
1470 WKMF Flint (with WBRN off air)
1480 WMAX Grand Rapids, MI
1490 WLRC Whitehall, MI
1520 WKJR Muskegon Heights
1530 WTHM Lapeer, MI
1550 CBE Windsor, ON
1590 WGRY Grayling, MI
1590 WTVB Coldwater, MI
1600 WTRU Muskegon

On most radios, WBRN 1460 was the ONLY station that was listenable. The next strongest station was WMAQ Chicago, probably at no more than 0.2 mV/m. Only with the antenna and preamp did the band become alive in the daytime.

 

[Ultimajock]

690 WATO 690

Correction

690 WLKE Oshkosh

...actually, you were closer with the original listing. For its first dozen years or so, 690 Oshkosh used the call sign WAGO. I worked their afternoon drive shift when the station operated as Oldies WXOL in 1993-4; as a daytimer, we had pockets of regular listeners as far south as Rockford...

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

There are a few more minor errors also. I did the log pretty much off the top of my head. It was amazing to listen to WLS, WIND, and WAIT, 175 to 200 miles away in the daytime so well when almost no one else could hear anything except WBRN. I wish they would extend the amount of time you had to edit posts. Perhaps if it doesn't include forbidden words and surnames where someone could be slandered and then delete the post to cover it up. Although such common surnames as WOOD and WARD are also call letters you could hear today in the daytime, so that wouldn't work.

I could not find the old 690 call letters onine. Because it was 250 watts, it wasn't in the 1969 WRTH copy I keep handy. Funny how I remembered it as WATO, but couldn't verify, and then of course in looking things up remembered that WATO was 1290 in Oak Ridge, TN.

 

[HGR1290]

Also, "Up North", critical hours (Especially in the winter) were always an adventure. I seem to recall the most everything above 1200 sounded like a "Graveyard" channel late in the afternoon.

David Eduardo; WCCW was audible in the Higgins lake area, but very week. Even our "close" AM (WHGR) was not super strong just a few miles north. They also had nice gentle sidebands as I recall, so it was easy to null WHGR and hear TC where I was. WJML-1110 was another that was audible down our way.


As Schroedingers Cat and I have discussed a few times, all of the glacial till in the northern part of the lower peninsula makes for crappy AM ground wave. (Almost as bad as Georgia---where I am now)

 

[HGR1290]

The memory band scan, probably mid 1970's at Higgins Lake MI. (As a recall-----it was a few years ago
Part 1
540 CBEF Weak
550 WKRC Weak
560 WHNE Fair
570
580
590 WKZO Fair
600 WTAC Good
610 Columbus Weak
620 WTMJ Weak-Fair
630 CFCO Good
640
650
660
670 WMAQ Fair
680 CFTR/Mix Weak/mix
690
700 WLW Weak
710 CHYR Fair
720 WGN Fair-weak
730 WVIC Fair
740
750
760 WJR Good
770
780 WBBM Fair
790 WSGW Good
800 CKLW Weak
810
820
830
840 A very weak WHAS
850 WJW-very weak
860
870 WKAR Fair
880
890 WLS Weak
900 WATC Weak-fair
910 WFDF Fair
920 WOKY Fair
930 WBCK Fair
940 WIDG Fair/weak
950 (nothing WWJ was 5kW back then
960 WHAK Fair
970 Jackson MI, cant remember the calls
980
990 WCRM Weak
1000 barely detectable WCFL
1010 WITL Weak

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

One thing that always amazed me was how far out you have always been able to hear WAMM/WFLT 1420 Flint. I don't remember hearing it in West Central Michigan, maybe it was due to pre NRSC sidebands from WBRN 1460, and I never tried very hard when WBRN was off. But I heard is alone near Houghton Lake once when it was strictly a daytimer and close to middays in the Summer. I heard WFLT recently near Pinconning, and people posted elsewhere about getting it regularly near Tawas. WKMF/WFNT 1470 Flint is another signal that amazes me for as far up the dial it is. Like I said, it was quite clear when WBRN was off the air at that location and set up. I have heard it in the Summer in the daytime near Charlevoix, and in the Straits Region quite regularly in the daytime with a similar set up as in West Central Michigan. I knew the CE at WKMF/WFNT back when I had more time to DX, the late Bill Sanderson, and he was amazed also. WCRZ 107.9 Flint used to also come in at the same location with an FM-10 and Technics ST-G5, which has the digital readout signal strength meter. It was at 14 dB on the meter quite consistently in the Summer, before WCZW Charlevoix came on the air. You could hear WGMZ/WCRZ ALL OVER THE LOWER PENINSULA on a fairly regular basis before all the newbies on 107.9 came on the air. The same was true of most of the Class B stations in Michigan at near full Class B ERP and the grandfathered superpowered stations.

I attribute the great signals of WAMM/WFLT 1420 and WKMF/WFNT 1470 to their location in a swampy clay soil era next to tributaries of the Flint River. WTRX 1330 Flint, received interference from WHBL 1330 Sheboygan in Northern Michigan. If you listen near places like Mio and Atlanta, you can hear them alone but fairly weak with WTRX. I haven't tried WFDF on the far Eastern Sunrise Side much, but all of those still come in quite well in Tawas and Harrisville I am told with the new TL and 50000 watts. WFDF got and gets interference from WDOR 910 Sturgeon Bay, and WTAC/WSNL 600 from WLST...WCHT 600 Escanaba the futher West you go.

Of course, rfry, David, and HGR1290, radioman, cyberdad, etc. have all noted WSGW 790 Saginaw all over the place before WBBM went IBOC and far enough from CKLW 800 to not have adjacent channel sideband interference.

WWJ was weak in those areas but came in quite well with the longer wire vertical and preamp with 5000 watts nondirectional, and had a decent signal in Northern Michigan at night with 5000 watts DA. And as I noted before PSSAs and Fulltime newbies came on, WWJ could regularly be heard hundreds of miles in most directions at night with 5000 watts. The higher tower disappeared at a certain angle, and it was essentially Non-DA at the corresponding distances.

 

[davideduardo]

Of course, rfry, David, and HGR1290, radioman, cyberdad, etc. have all noted WSGW 790 Saginaw all over the place before WBBM went IBOC and far enough from CKLW 800 to not have adjacent channel sideband interference.

Another really good signal just north of Suttons Bay was the Sault St. Marie, CA, station on 920. It had a pop format, and was an alternative when noise from the south or aurora made WLS difficult. Other alternatives that played Top 40 in those days were WKNX 1210 and, of course, WHGR which at least had Top 40 in the afternoon.

1050 from "The Soo" was not as good a signal.

There were several other Canadians I seem to remember was the 560 in Thunder Bay and Blind River on 730.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I forgot WATT 1240 Cadillac in West Central Michigan. WSAM 1400 Saginaw is also in a clay soil river bed area and gets out quite well with its tall tower, especially if WQBH 1400 Detroit goes off the air. You can get both quite well by nulling the cochannels.

Remember when there was:

CJIC 1050
CJIC-FM 100.5
CJIC-TV 2

CHBX Channel 2 SSM, ON is one of the few Low VHF full power analog signals left in Canada.

 

[HGR1290]

Memory Band Scan Mid 70's Higgins lake Part 2
1020-1040 Nothing
1050 WPAG Fair
1060 WBMB Local
1070 CHOK Weak
1080 WOAP Fair
1090
1100 WWWE Weak
1110 WJML
1120
1130 WCAR Fair
1140
1150 WCEN Fair
1160 WJJD, Very weak
1170
1180
1190 WOWO Very weak
1200
1210 WKNX Good
1220 WGAR Very weak
1230 Mix
1240 WATT Weak
1250 WXOX Weak
1260 Weak mix
1270 WVOY Weak
1280
1290 WHGR Local
1300 WCCW Weak
1310 Weak mix
1320 WILS Fair
1330 WTRX Weak
1340 Petoskey Weak
1350 WGDN Good
1360 Weak mix
1370 WWAM, Weak
1380
1390
1400 WSAM/WTCm Mix
1410
1420 WAMM, Weak
1430 mix
1450 WATZ/Mix
1460 WBRN
1470 WKMF weak
1480 WIOS Fair
1490 WMPX Weak
1500
1510
1520 WMLM Weak
1530-1580 nothing
1590 WGRY Local
1600

 

[HGR1290]

the 920 in the Soo was CFCY I think. Good signal down into the Straits, and the tip of the LP.

As with many Canadians, that one is gone, to FM.

 

[davideduardo]

the 920 in the Soo was CFCY I think. Good signal down into the Straits, and the tip of the LP.

As with many Canadians, that one is gone, to FM.

Yep. 920 was a jungle at night. Milwaukee, CFCY, and several others always fighting it out. And on Sunday night / Monday morning, things like KQEO in Albuquerque, KELP in El Paso, KLMR in Lamar, CO, Spokane, Reno and Las Vegas made it in regularly... even an occasional visit from Lompoc, CA, IIRC.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Slight correction, 920 SSM was CKCY. Also, if I have the timeline correct, CKCY-FM was 104.3, and Channel 2 became CKCY-TV and CJIC-TV moved to Channel 5.

CKCY 920 and CFYN 1050 entered into an agreement in the early 1990s to go silent. They were competitors at the time, and both were hurting due to US competition at the time. Seems a shame to sacrifice the low dial position signals, compared to WSOO 1230 and WKNW 1400. But 10000 watts is a lot of power, and both had DAs to maintain.

Now, a correction to one of my posts. WTRX 1330 came in on the EAST side of buildings, not the WEST.