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Daytime music on 1710 am
- Thread starter icybluelake
- Start date
As I recall it's some Sports stations, and it's his son, Bob DelGiorno, Jr., often called Bobby, and Michael's older brother. The family loved JFK, and reportedly had pictures of him all over the house, though generally conservative.
By today's standards, JFK would be a conservative. Not to derail the discussion, nor to go in a political direction which probably isn't germane to this board, just noting what many besides me have observed.
Now back to the discussion...
I actually went out tonight and tried to pick up 1710 on my car radio, driving to a place where lighting was at a minimum, and I did hear something, some kind of talking, thought at first it might be TIS, but it didn't sound like TIS.
Christian station CHIM in Timmins ONT broadcasts on 1710, but only at 84 watts.
Could it have been a harmonic of a station on 850 AM (WKIX Raleigh?) or possibly CJBC 860 from Toronto, but that's French and this didn't sound French.
Christian station CHIM in Timmins ONT broadcasts on 1710, but only at 84 watts.
Could it have been a harmonic of a station on 850 AM (WKIX Raleigh?) or possibly CJBC 860 from Toronto, but that's French and this didn't sound French.
My son and I went out tonight, to an area without a lot of overhead electricity, in search of "the mighty 1710", and all we picked up was a very weak, intermittent signal, apparently TIS WQFG689 from Hudson County, NJ, a distance of 596 miles (!) with a power of 10 watts (!!!).
There was no instrumental music, no, just a recorded loop of traffic information specific to Hoboken and vicinity. Evidently that was the voice transmission I heard the other night.
Receiving CHIM at 84 watts would not have been as remarkable as receiving WQFG689 at 10 watts, am I right?
There was no instrumental music, no, just a recorded loop of traffic information specific to Hoboken and vicinity. Evidently that was the voice transmission I heard the other night.
Receiving CHIM at 84 watts would not have been as remarkable as receiving WQFG689 at 10 watts, am I right?
Nice catch, but hams communicate across even greater distances with low power just 100 khz higher in frequency. The AM expanded band behaves much like 160 meters at night. Its frequencies are teeming with all sorts of signals when skywave reception is possible.
Yes, I know, it's not like it was impossible DX, just unexpected. Here's what one DXer reported from Virginia:
Only U.S. AM signal on 1710 AM received in Virginia
I beat that one, but not this one:
Finland. Wow!
Actually, they may now be running 100 watts:
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/th...crease-to-cover-coronavirus-emergency.724228/
That would still be pretty remarkable, at a distance of almost 600 miles.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/th...crease-to-cover-coronavirus-emergency.724228/
That would still be pretty remarkable, at a distance of almost 600 miles.
The 1710 AM mystery thickens. Tonight around 9:30 pm EDT (Columbia SC), I turned my car radio to 1710 and went on a little drive. It was, of course, overwhelmingly staticky, but I would hear the NJ TIS station fade in for a second or two, then back out. Then I would hear what sounded like someone talking, as in a radio show as opposed to a monotone traffic report. Then a few minutes later I heard... "Low Rider" by the group War! Quite obviously this wasn't a traffic report. At the top of the 10:00 hour, I heard what sounded like "WGA...", I want to say "WGAC" but I can't swear to that. A Google search turns up various Part 15 niche broadcasters, and I'm thinking that some Part 15 broadcaster has assigned themselves made-up call letters and, ahem, has turned up their power somewhat outside the bounds of permitted Part 15 limits. There is also a self-described pirate radio station on 1710, "WGCM", this per a Google search that shows something on Soundcloud, they report playing country music, which obviously War isn't.
Part 15, if they are following the rules, runs on power so low, that the TIS station in New Jersey at 100 watts would be like WLW (or even the old XERF!) by comparison. So it's hard telling. My money is on someone running a Part 15 at illegal power, which on a basically empty frequency such as 1710, might well cover a vast distance at night. How that ties into the Iowa situation, I don't know, but if someone has a broadcasting rig, and has gotten a little creative with it, anything is possible.
Part 15, if they are following the rules, runs on power so low, that the TIS station in New Jersey at 100 watts would be like WLW (or even the old XERF!) by comparison. So it's hard telling. My money is on someone running a Part 15 at illegal power, which on a basically empty frequency such as 1710, might well cover a vast distance at night. How that ties into the Iowa situation, I don't know, but if someone has a broadcasting rig, and has gotten a little creative with it, anything is possible.
I'm guessing it's the taller fiberglass whip on the right, seen here in Jersey City.
I'm guessing it's the taller fiberglass whip on the right, seen here in Jersey City.
Very well could be. Hard to imagine getting that running 100 watts, here 600 miles away as the crow flies.
Reception in broad daylight pretty much eliminates a skywave as the source of that transmission. It is more likely the groundwave from a transmit site geographically close to the receive location.
Below for some 'calibration' is a graphic showing about the maximum, FCC-legal, groundwave fields vs. distance from the radiator that an unlicensed station could produce on 1700 kHz — but not on 1710 kHz.
![GW-F-I-vs-H-Distance-from-Part-15-AM-Xmt-System[1].jpg](https://radiodiscussions.com/data/attachments/3/3009-7b23979077e3a37f139d72e5704265b0.jpg "GW-F-I-vs-H-Distance-from-Part-15-AM-Xmt-System[1].jpg")
Maybe yet another dumb question, but what would a station like the TIS in New Jersey on 1710 use as a ground plane and radial wires? If it's a whip antenna on a building, obviously it doesn't have anything sunk into the earth.
The Part 15 100 mW allowance only extends up to 1705 kHz. So 1710 is out of bounds, and on 1700 you'd need to restrict your audio bandwidth (or at least your upper sideband) to 5 kHz.
H
Harvey_Dogg
Guest
I doubt the operator cares about part 15.
Around 1980, a friend had a 100 Watt transmitter on 1610 in Bloomington Indiana. He loaded into 400 feet of long wire.
I heard the signal very well in Springfield Ohio right after sunset.
Around 1980, a friend had a 100 Watt transmitter on 1610 in Bloomington Indiana. He loaded into 400 feet of long wire.
I heard the signal very well in Springfield Ohio right after sunset.
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AM broadcast stations licensed by the FCC for TIS applications are covered by a different set of Rules than those permitting unlicensed use of the AM broadcast band (Part 15). Here is a clip about TIS stations from the FCC web site:
"Governmental entities, as well as park districts and authorities, may be eligible to operate a Travelers' Information Station (TIS, also called Highway Advisory Radio) for the purpose of disseminating information by broadcast radio to travelers. A license is required before construction of, or operation of, a Travelers' Information Station. This service, which was created in 1977 by the Report and Order in Docket 20509, is covered under rule 47 CFR 90.242. Travelers' Information Stations operate in the AM Broadcast Band (530 kHz - 1700 kHz) and are limited to a 10 watt transmitter output power, an antenna height no greater than 15 meters (49.2 feet), and a coverage radius of 3 km."
A typical TIS station uses an Earth-mounted radiator 15 meters or less tall, a transmitter of 10 watts carrier output power or less, and an r-f ground system — all designed and adjusted for the installed system not to exceed the "3 km" coverage radius/field strength permitted for TIS stations under the Rules.
Normally 1710 kHz is not within the AM broadcast band spectrum, but there is one FCC-licensed TIS station in New Jersey presently licensed to use that frequency. If it uses a whip antenna mounted on a building then the FCC would have given them that authority, based on the installer's or station's submission of data to the FCC showing that such an installation was FCC-acceptable.
However, it still would be a highly unusual event if a legally-operating TIS station could be heard usefully in the daytime in Iowa, from the skywave of a transmit site located in New Jersey.
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H
Harvey_Dogg
Guest
Yip! Good way to reach a few DXers and the FCC.
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Back when the Expanded Band was new, the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport had 60-watt TISes on 1640 and 1680 kHz that DXers were able to pick up from coast to coast. The airport even sent out QSL cards to confirm reception:
As mentioned earlier with the first report in the thread, it's not impossible for this to be a bored operator that happens to have at their disposal a suitable antenna (...and tuner) along with a transmitter that's operating at 1710.
That frequency is (nearly) outside of most standard car radio receivers, yet would be easily picked up with many commonly-obtained communications receivers available.
My suspicion is that there's (a) someone running a setup that's quite possible to cover hundreds of miles *and* that monitoring of that specific frequency is rather sparse -or- (b) a network of smaller broadcasters that are randomly transmitting, while others are receiving the signals and giving reports of coverage.
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