Daytime music on 1710 am

[rfry]

For more perspective on this, below is a graphic showing the nighttime skywave (SW) fields of a 1,000 watt broadcast station in New Jersey at a receive location in eastern Iowa.

Even this much-higher-powered NJ station than the ~10 watt TIS station licensed on 1710 kHz in NJ cannot produce a skywave field in eastern Iowa that would be listenable above the ambient r-f noise level, when using a very good AM receive system.

 

[kwthom]

I'm just not reading that there's a huge number of people DX'ing this signal and identifying a direction or a definite time they are operating.

Roughly 900 air miles between the only two locations we've had a report from. A rough, back-of-the-envelope middle location puts us in central Kentucky.

Until we first identify if this is a single station or multiple stations, it's nothing more than a WAG, isn't it?

Personally, I still think it's a network of smaller broadcasters that are randomly transmitting.

 

[kevtronics]

Personally, I still think it's a network of smaller broadcasters that are randomly transmitting.

Are you talking about the NJ TIS, or the signal(s) on 1710 kHz playing music?

 

[kwthom]

Are you talking about the NJ TIS, or the signal(s) on 1710 kHz playing music?

The signal(s) on 1710 kHz playing music.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

@ KevTronics:
The theory here for quite some time is that, say, the AM dial got expanded again to 1805 kHz, there'd be pirates broadcasting on 1810.
Same if expansion went up to 1905; on new radio dials there'd be folks broadcasting on 1910.
If expanded broadcasts (plus even newer radio receivers) licensed stations whose frequency allowed up to 100,000,000,000,000.5 ........ well, you get the idea,

 

[KeithE4]

@ KevTronics:
The theory here for quite some time is that, say, the AM dial got expanded again to 1805 kHz, there'd be pirates broadcasting on 1810.
Same if expansion went up to 1905; on new radio dials there'd be folks broadcasting on 1910.

Not likely. Hams don't like interlopers on their bands (the 160 meter ham band is 1800-2000 kHz). Anyone attempting to broadcast inside our band would be located quickly, at least if the pirate is in the US.

 

[Bongwater]

The kind of music you might hear right after they overthrow the government.

I imagine with the kind of forces at work trying to overthrow our government, you'd probably hear something closer to Tom Read's American Christian Network in Eastern WA. Or those creepy 24 hour Brother Stair stations to be the state-run radio of something like that.

 

[davideduardo]

Even this much-higher-powered NJ station than the ~10 watt TIS station licensed on 1710 kHz in NJ cannot produce a skywave field in eastern Iowa that would be listenable above the ambient r-f noise level, when using a very good AM receive system.

In the early 60's, when Chicago was off 780 for maintenance on Monday morning, the 50 watt AFRTS station at Ramey AFB, Puerto Rico often visited Cleveland, Ohio. They had an 80 foot wire antenna hung from a communications tower on the base.

More difficult due to the signal of KHVH in Honolulu was the Ft. Buchanan AFRTS on 1040 in San Juan. It made rare appearances in Cleveland. I later saw the antenna before the construction of WOSO-1030 in San Juan made them change frequency and it was just a wire between two plain old military buildings and maybe 30 feet above ground. When I saw it they were running about 10 watts so that the local broadcaster association would not claim they were competing with them.

Both were around 1,800 miles from Cleveland.

 

[davideduardo]

I imagine with the kind of forces at work trying to overthrow our government, you'd probably hear something closer to Tom Read's American Christian Network in Eastern WA. Or those creepy 24 hour Brother Stair stations to be the state-run radio of something like that.

When a rebel force takes over broadcasting after a revolution, they usually fill airtime with promises of change, better working conditions, higher pay and less corruption.

When the revolt is actually going on, rebels will try to take over important radio stations and issue a call to arms, asking the people to join in and get rid of the oppressive existing government.

I've been "in country" for a variety of attempted coups, abortive "calls to arms" and successful overthrows. The successful ones were planned intricately in advance, with the assistance of military and police forces. The unsuccessful ones were disorganized riots of unhappy civilians who had no armed force backing and not advance planning.

Sadly, the majority of successful ones were backed by the US Government, US Military or supported by the training of the leaders in the US training camps in Panama and elsewhere.

 

[MarioMania]

Driving around eastern Iowa during the daytime

You still didn't put where you are, No one can guess, Your location

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

You still didn't put where you are, No one can guess, Your location

LOL.. location is important to the story... and "Eastern iowa" is a very broadcast description of a locaiton especialyl with no other personally identifying details given

 

[rfry]

"In the early 60's, when Chicago was off 780 for maintenance on Monday morning, the 50 watt AFRTS station at Ramey AFB, Puerto Rico often visited Cleveland, Ohio. They had an 80 foot wire antenna hung from a communications tower on the base."

Sorry, but for the details provided that possibility is not supported by Physics even for one occurrence, let alone "often" ...

 

[IM42A]

"In the early 60's, when Chicago was off 780 for maintenance on Monday morning, the 50 watt AFRTS station at Ramey AFB, Puerto Rico often visited Cleveland, Ohio. They had an 80 foot wire antenna hung from a communications tower on the base."

Sorry, but for the details provided that possibility is not supported by Physics even for one occurrence, let alone "often" ...

Yes, but if it happened, how can that be disputed? It is perfectly all right to say "it couldn't have happened", but how does one then explain that it did?

That whip antenna on the side of a building in New Jersey putting out 100 watts on 1710 reaches me at least sporadically at night, 600 miles away. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

A critical factor is also the reception conditions.
A pal of mine four blocks west of me IDed one of those 40-watt CBC relays from PQ or NS, back around 1970 iIrc.
The Auroral Index tht early morning may have been zero, or even below nothing. That was back near JFK Airport in Queens NYC.
I've managed to hear Colombia from that location -- on 1400. In fact, every 'local' frequency had Spanish stations mixing. If the Aurora had been visible tht night it probably would've awakened the birds.

 

[Mitch Brewer]

I think @rfry may be confusing "morning" with daylight hours. Monday morning maintenance in no way implies daylight hours.

 

[gr8oldies]

I imagine with the kind of forces at work trying to overthrow our government, you'd probably hear something closer to Tom Read's American Christian Network in Eastern WA. Or those creepy 24 hour Brother Stair stations to be the state-run radio of something like that.

The forces who want to overthrow our government now can be broadcast on licensed radio stations and approved by corporate management. No need for a clandestine "Radio New Confederacy"....yet

 

[davideduardo]

"In the early 60's, when Chicago was off 780 for maintenance on Monday morning, the 50 watt AFRTS station at Ramey AFB, Puerto Rico often visited Cleveland, Ohio. They had an 80 foot wire antenna hung from a communications tower on the base."

Sorry, but for the details provided that possibility is not supported by Physics even for one occurrence, let alone "often" ...

That station was well-heard by DXers in the Northeastern United States in that era. Two friends in Cleveland, Tom Arko and Ed Krejny (a senior design engineer at TRW) also heard it and had it verified by the station. Ed and I both used Hammarlund HQ-180 receivers with tuned loop antennas.

I have written verification of that one, along with 1 kw WUNO-1320, 500 watt WITA 1140 and 250 watt WHOA from San Juan / Río Piedras as well as 500 watt WABA 850 from Aguadilla, 1 kw WIVV-1370 from Vieques, 1 kw WISA-1390 from Isabella and several other low power stations from Puerto Rico all from around 1961 to 1962.

In Cleveland we also had 250 watt KIKI 830 from Honolulu quite often. But we did not have the opportunity, due to congested channels, to hear 100 watt stations from New Zealand and Australia and Oceania such as Eastern DXers in the 30's and 40's and even early 50's had a chance to hear.

In the reverse direction, I put my own HCRM1, licensed to 570, on 565 for a series of Monday morning DX tests and heard from over 30 US DXers everywhere from New England to Ohio to Illinois to Colorado to California as well as New Zealand. Because of being off-channel, we only ran 500 watts for that set of tests.

When I bought HCSP1 in San Pedro de Amaguaña, Ecuador in 1967 and moved it to Quito, I found a bunch of reception reports from the USA and Europe. It had been running about 100 to 200 watts into a 100 foot longwire (inverted L) only about 60 feet above ground on 595 kcs, a total clear channel everywhere.

As a DXer from Quito in the 1964-1969 period I had a number of openings that allowed US Class IV stations with 250 watts to be heard from Minnesota, the Dakotas and Montana as well as many more that were not as far away. Some were nearly 4,000 miles away and many were 100% intelligible.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

When the revolt is actually going on, rebels will try to take over important radio stations and issue a call to arms, asking the people to join in and get rid of the oppressive existing government.

Conservative talk radio has been operating in this manner under cover of legitimacy for many years and it culminated with calls to action like this:

Glenn Beck, two days before the Jan. 6 insurrection: “It is time to fight,” “It is time to go to war, as the left went to war four years ago.”

Mark Levin: “Crush them, crush them. We need to kick their ass.”

Sean Hannity: “There’s no doubt this was stolen. No doubt whatsoever.”

I've been "in country" for a variety of attempted coups, abortive "calls to arms" and successful overthrows. The successful ones were planned intricately in advance, with the assistance of military and police forces.

You have been in the United States for an attempted coup.

Over 50 active or retired military, law enforcement, former elected officials and U.S. government service employees were arrested after Jan. 6 and they have faced some of the most significant and violent charges brought so far in connection with the insurrection.

There are now investigations into why the U.S. Secret Service erased text messages from Jan. 6 after receiving a congressional subpoena.

Sadly, the majority of successful ones were backed by the US Government, US Military or supported by the training of the leaders in the US training camps in Panama and elsewhere.

It's not something that just happens in other countries anymore. Big, mainstream Conservative talk radio in the United States is still urging its audience to join in and get rid of the oppressive Democratic government every single day.

 

[gr8oldies]

Conservative talk radio has been operating in this manner under cover of legitimacy for many years and it culminated with calls to action like this:

Glenn Beck, two days before the Jan. 6 insurrection: “It is time to fight,” “It is time to go to war, as the left went to war four years ago.”

Mark Levin: “Crush them, crush them. We need to kick their ass.”

Sean Hannity: “There’s no doubt this was stolen. No doubt whatsoever.”



You have been in the United States for an attempted coup.

Over 50 active or retired military, law enforcement, former elected officials and U.S. government service employees were arrested after Jan. 6 and they have faced some of the most significant and violent charges brought so far in connection with the insurrection.

There are now investigations into why the U.S. Secret Service erased text messages from Jan. 6 after receiving a congressional subpoena.



It's not something that just happens in other countries anymore. Big, mainstream Conservative talk radio in the United States is still urging its audience to join in and get rid of the oppressive Democratic government every single day.

The coup continues as a slow motion coup. We have counties refusing to certify their election results.

 

[rfry]

"In the early 60's, when Chicago was off 780 for maintenance on Monday morning, the 50 watt AFRTS station at Ramey AFB, Puerto Rico often visited Cleveland, Ohio. They had an 80 foot wire antenna hung from a communications tower on the base."

Sorry, but for the details provided that possibility is not supported by Physics even for one occurrence, let alone "often" ...

To elaborate — below using the data and methodology of the FCC is a graphic showing the 100 µV/m nighttime skywave field intensity contour of WTTM using a 1000W transmitter from a site in New Jersey.

Note that:

• A 100 µV/m e-m field on and near 1710 kHz is well below the ambient r-f noise level in that spectrum at most receive sites
• The 100 µV/m nighttime skywave field of WTTM falls far short of reaching any place in eastern Iowa
• The distance to the 100 µV/m daytime (groundwave) field contour of KTTM is less than the distance for their 100 µV/m nighttime skywave
• The New Jersey TIS station on 1710 kHz uses a transmitter power of 10 watts or less, day and night

Conclusion: It is "unlikely" that the NJ TIS station is the source of the signal in eastern Iowa that is being discussed in this thread.