Daytime Skywave 3 Hours Before Sunset

[Schroedingers Cat]

Noticed a lot of skywave at the upper end of the band up to 3 hours before sunset today. 1610, 1650, and 1690 Toronto were the first three. Later WNDV 1620 booming in. Later WDSS 1680, WQLR 1660, WTDY 1670, WKSH 1640, WVON 1690, and CHIN 1540. Also, a Smooth Jazz or Instrumental R & B on 1560 was heard. Instrumental of "Slipping Into Darkness" was played.

 

[gar hi]

Even here in Tampa in June, I can start to hear 1700 WJCC from Miami late afternoon after 5 pm.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

The Radio Disney fanatics in Lubbock, TX would switch from KMKI 620 Dallas to KKDZ 1690 Denver in the late afternoon. At other times of the year, they would have better luck with KRDY 1160 San Antonio.

Extended band stations start coming in earlier in the evening than lower band, that is for sure. Here in Houston, KVNS does. Unfortunately, so does KKLF so you don't gain much. So does KJRO Monroe LA on 1680 - surprising that I'd like a rhythmic oldies station but they make it work. A little later, WMLB Atlanta starts coming in on 1690, but by that time nighttime patterns are usually well established here. WMLB is a really good station with an unusual music mix you won't hear other places - so nighttime bandscan from 1680 through 1700 in Houston nets some really good musical formats.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Most of my years of DXing, which go back as far as five decades, I don't remember the Critical Hours starting so early, except maybe in Winter, at least as often. Yesterday, at SS-3 Hours, it was into the 1500s. Usually the skywaves are no more than 50 uV/m and don't affect the 0.5 mV/m of local stations.

Anybody have a clue about the 1560 with Instrumental R&B? Would an Urban Gospel station have a daypart with this kind of music? That's the only other 1560s I could find. I thought WQEW had changed, because it was the 10 kW or more powerful stations that were coming in that well, like WNDV.

 

[Tincap]

Most of my years of DXing, which go back as far as five decades, I don't remember the Critical Hours starting so early, except maybe in Winter, at least as often. Yesterday, at SS-3 Hours, it was into the 1500s. Usually the skywaves are no more than 50 uV/m and don't affect the 0.5 mV/m of local stations.

Anybody have a clue about the 1560 with Instrumental R&B? Would an Urban Gospel station have a daypart with this kind of music? That's the only other 1560s I could find. I thought WQEW had changed, because it was the 10 kW or more powerful stations that were coming in that well, like WNDV.

I'd be a happy camper, if WQEW changed back to their earlier standards format! Previous to that, I remember their classical format, which we'd play in the background, around the camp fire at the cottage.

I do enjoy these 'critical hours' period. Yesterday afternoon, Montreal's 1450 CHOU 'Radio Moyen-Orient' was coming in very well, which is quite uncommon. I'm sure there were others out there, but there's something about Arab music on the MW band, which brings along a little nostalgia to me... 8)

~BG

 

[jd]

Extended band stations start coming in earlier in the evening than lower band, that is for sure. Here in Houston, KVNS does. Unfortunately, so does KKLF so you don't gain much. So does KJRO Monroe LA on 1680 - surprising that I'd like a rhythmic oldies station but they make it work.

You're right about the X-banders coming in earlier, and I have similar experiences here in East Texas. I also liked KRJO from Monroe, but note the past tense; the former "Rejoice 1680" switched to news talk last month.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Extended band stations start coming in earlier in the evening than lower band, that is for sure. Here in Houston, KVNS does. Unfortunately, so does KKLF so you don't gain much. So does KJRO Monroe LA on 1680 - surprising that I'd like a rhythmic oldies station but they make it work.

You're right about the X-banders coming in earlier, and I have similar experiences here in East Texas. I also liked KRJO from Monroe, but note the past tense; the former "Rejoice 1680" switched to news talk last month.

Ugh - that explains why I can't find it. It wasn't "rejoice" for a long time, it was rhythmic oldies. The rejoice format was - unwelcome because it was nice to hear the TIS station from Florida on 1680 before Monroe signed on.

 

[jd]

Also, a Smooth Jazz or Instrumental R & B on 1560 was heard. Instrumental of "Slipping Into Darkness" was played.

I'd like to help with ID'ing that one, but here in East Texas it's all KGOW from Houston during critical hours. Up to three hours past sunrise and three hours before sunset during the summer, even longer in the winter. They recently did extensive work to alleviate the daytime skywave problem by shortening one of the six towers and reducing power but I really don't notice that much of a change.

 

[jd]

Ugh - that explains why I can't find it. It wasn't "rejoice" for a long time, it was rhythmic oldies.

Okay, the "onetime Rejoice" instead of the "former." I still thought of it that way after the switch, probably in part because they didn't bother to change the call letters.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Sometimes stations will fill in dead air from studio/computer/satellite problems with music like that.

Last week I thoght I heard WABQ 1460 (WPVL heritage calls) during the daytime playing Urban Gospel. It was consistent with the current call letters but not what was shown on Wikipedia.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Also, a Smooth Jazz or Instrumental R & B on 1560 was heard. Instrumental of "Slipping Into Darkness" was played.

I'd like to help with ID'ing that one, but here in East Texas it's all KGOW from Houston during critical hours. Up to three hours past sunrise and three hours before sunset during the summer, even longer in the winter. They recently did extensive work to alleviate the daytime skywave problem by shortening one of the six towers and reducing power but I really don't notice that much of a change.

How high was the antenna they shortened? Wish WMBD would do that.

Going down to 180 degrees or less is the best. I can see where that might cause problems.

In areas with low conductivity, any height can result in daytime fading and phase modulation.

 

[cyberdad]

Most of my years of DXing, which go back as far as five decades, I don't remember the Critical Hours starting so early, except maybe in Winter, at least as often. Yesterday, at SS-3 Hours, it was into the 1500s. Usually the skywaves are no more than 50 uV/m and don't affect the 0.5 mV/m of local stations.

Anybody have a clue about the 1560 with Instrumental R&B? Would an Urban Gospel station have a daypart with this kind of music? That's the only other 1560s I could find. I thought WQEW had changed, because it was the 10 kW or more powerful stations that were coming in that well, like WNDV.

I'd be a happy camper, if WQEW changed back to their earlier standards format! Previous to that, I remember their classical format, which we'd play in the background, around the camp fire at the cottage.

I do enjoy these 'critical hours' period. Yesterday afternoon, Montreal's 1450 CHOU 'Radio Moyen-Orient' was coming in very well, which is quite uncommon. I'm sure there were others out there, but there's something about Arab music on the MW band, which brings along a little nostalgia to me...

~BG

As posted in other threads, WQEW used to be solid daytimes during my business trips driving the Ottawa-Montreal-Toronto. Very reliable....especially in winter, but not bad sometimes in warmer weather months as well. And a good listen to boot....both as classical and standards.

And as for 1450, it wouldn't be unusual for CHUC to roll in on top of the channel here northwest of Chicago, 2-3 hours before sunset. There's a 1450 in Chicago, but the stick is about 50 mi/80km from where I am. I beleive CHUC migrated to FM several years ago.

 

[MarioMania]

Is that normal ..or not??

 

[cyberdad]

Is that normal ..or not??

Is your question for me? If so...is what normal?

If you're talking about WQEW daytime skywave into Eastern Ontario and adjacent Quebec, it's not at all unusual....especially common in winter. Migration of AM stations to FM? Very much a trend in Canada and probably the majority of countries on the planet. For various reasons, that hasn't happened much here....although a number of AMs with coverage issues have been permitted to launch low-powered FM translators or have been permitted to simulcast on FM.

(If your question was indeed for me, I hope I understood it correctly and was able to answer.)

 

[stormy01]

re: Daytime Skywave 3 Hours Before Sunset (WMBD)

How high was the antenna they shortened? Wish WMBD would do that.

Going down to 180 degrees or less is the best. I can see where that might cause problems.

In areas with low conductivity, any height can result in daytime fading and phase modulation.

I find it quite odd WMBD has a 230 degree #1 tower, and their other 3 towers are 90 degrees in height.
The picture of this site looks odd too: https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=40.57278,+-89.53333+(WMBD-AM)&om=1
The taller tower is supporting a communications antenna, I'm guessing it's the STL.

How does the much taller tower interact with the shorter towers? In electrical height the taller tower is 2 1/2 times taller than the shorter towers. One would think that at some height above the shorter towers,the taller tower acts like an omnidirectional tower (?) I'm not surprised that we usually get a nice skywave from WMBD at night in the Chicago area!

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

At a certain height around 35 degrees above horizontal, the tower disappears from the pattern of WMBD. The other three towers produce the pattern at that elevation. The null to the ENE is deep in the horizontal, but very shallow at this elevation.

If it's the original tower, it was either used or intended to be used for WMBD-TV when it first signed on, and may have been used for their FM station.

 

[crainbebo]

DX 45 min before sunset tonight, Bellevue, WA.

800 CKOR Penticton, BC
810 KTBI Ephrata, WA signing off
840 Dave Ramsey, likely KMAX Colfax, WA
930 CJCA Edmonton, AB
970 a mess
1060 CKMX Calgary, AB
1120 KPNW Eugene
1290 KGVO Missoula on top, one or two under [likely KUMA/KPAY]
1300 KAPL Jacksonville, OR tearing up local KKOL
1310 KLIX Twin Falls, ID
1550 KKOV Vancouver, WA

-crainbebo

 

[w9wi]

Re: re: Daytime Skywave 3 Hours Before Sunset (WMBD)

I find it quite odd WMBD has a 230 degree #1 tower, and their other 3 towers are 90 degrees in height.

It's not enormously unusual to find dissimilar towers. My theory... is that the station went on the air with the single 230deg. tower as a non-directional operation at lower power. The additional towers were added when WMBD increased power & needed to go directional to protect other stations on the frequency.

I've seen similar arrays at stations that signed on as daytimers and later added a directional night facility.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Your theory explains why the tower is 230 degrees and not 225 degrees. As you are undoubtably aware, effieciency goes down above 225 degrees, and the minor vertical lobe becomes bigger to the point of causing a lot of fading problems.

WMBD was on 1440 before NARBA changed it to 1470 in 1941. It would have been 225 degrees at 1440.

Other stations have used a taller tower for an FM. WTRX put up a three tower with the north tower at 370 feet and the other two around 200 feet. Their chief engineer told me that they had intended to put an FM antenna on the straight top section shortly after they went on the air as WBBC in 1947. There is a record online of a CP for WBBC-FM in the late 1940s or early 1950s, but it never went on. Just a couple of years ago, the plan finally came into reality when Citadel/Cumulus coowned WFBE moved to the tower when they needed to find a new site. The different height towers also allowed some null filling in the horizontal direction in the night theoretical pattern. The zero theoretical null occurs about 30 degrees above the horizon, protecting low NIF stations 200-250 miles away.

 

[FreddyE1977]

An AM station here in the Pittsburgh area on 1130 went dark about a month ago.
Ever since that happened I have noticed that WRVA will come booming in here
as early as 1PM on some days.

Other regular afternoon catches include WPHT in Philadelphia, WBBR from New York
(used to interfere with the former local, WASP), WWKB, Buffalo, WHAM, Rochester,
and occasionally WFED Washington. WABC used to be a regular but a local AM moved to 770 a few years back.