does the FCC even consider applications for new AM daytimers anymore?(new stations) and, I hear the FCC may require staffing 24/7 at stations. would this include am-fm-tv? would a person with an FCC operator's license need to be on duty 24/7? (I can see it now-----stations will have the overnight janitor babysit the automation! some stations likely already do it!)
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Daytimers/ Staffing
- Thread starter Clayton Douglas
- Start date
in addition----are am-fm-tv stations required to employ people with FCC operator's licenses or can anyone sign the program and transmitter logs these days? (or are the logs now automated at most stations--- not requiring anyone to sign them? )
Clayton Douglas said:
No. You can modify existing daytimers. (and do so rather extensively - one was recently approved to change frequency and move from Missouri to Ohio!) And you can convert an existing Class B station to a daytimer by reducing night power below 250W. (/equivalent) (occasionally done when it's impractical to maintain a directional antenna) But you can't file for a completely new one.
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bub
Guest
Speaking only from a radio point of view, the old 3rd Class Restricted permits ("Box Tops"), the last known "license" required of operators by the FCC, were phased out (so we think) with Dereg in '96. In response to previous post about staffing, I worked at a station that required an operator on duty at all times the station aired because that was required according to the station's license at the time. Today? That may depend on the wording of the license or the wording of the application for the license.
FWIW: I still have my old 3rd Class ticket. It may be over 20 years old and shopworn but I'll never part with it. You never know.
FWIW: I still have my old 3rd Class ticket. It may be over 20 years old and shopworn but I'll never part with it. You never know.
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bub
Guest
I go back to the days when you had to post a copy of your 3rd class by the transmitter or have it on file. If you've worked at a station that did that, see if you can get the copy.knoxbob said:
Some AM Directionals needed at least one First Phone operator on staff, some with critical directional patterns all the time or all of the hours the station may have been on night pattern. Six week wonder schools abounded at the time so jocks and TV people could memorize the First Class test.
Still got mine, too!bub said:
...>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>easing back on topic:Tuesday the FCC announced issuance of a notice of proposed rule-making that would require, inter alia (among other things), a requirement of 24/7 staffing to provide emergency coverage. The actual proposals will probably emerge in a month or so with specific dates for comments, reply comments, and announcement of the replacements for the present and, by then, recently-removed or departed FCC Commissioners (well, one can hope!).
So, who knows what they mean by "manned?" The big boys won't have a big problem with this, most 6 station or bigger clusters already have someone there overnight on fire watch, emptying wastebaskets and sweeping the floors once the tonight show goes off. Daytimers with flea power might as well shut everything down after 7 or so unless they have a ball game, or something similar that pays to keep someone around.
As others have already pointed out, if 24/7 staffing is imposed, many independent full time stations in small markets will simply shut-down overnight. Even in major markets no-one can sell midnight to 6, so why pay someone to sit around and watch tv, and lose more money overnight? Thereby defeating the stated goal of emergency coverage. At least with unattended automatic relay of EAS, the message would get out, even at 3 in the morning.
The other proposals are for the return of regular community ascertainments, that each station establish a citizens advisory board, the return of specified percentages of news and community affairs programing, a requirement for reports on how music is chosen for the station, and even for the playing of a certain amount of local music. (I'm light rock--in WV. Where the hell am I going to find any other kind of local music besides country???)
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scottwmro
Guest
This will put a MAJOR burdon on "stand alone" AM daytime only stations. These stations are OFF at night, alot of them in small towns. These stations don't have the money to hire people just to sit there and be a "night watchman", let alone a DJ during the day! AM daytimers are struggling and I guess this is Kevin Martin's way of putting another nail into local AM Radio, killing it off so they won't have to deal with it. I was told "off the cuff" that Martin wanted all stations staffed, ON OR OFF!
In my personal opinion, I have no respect for FCC Commissioner Kevin Martin at all. I've consider going to the NAB and other state broadcast associations together to get this guy removed from his office. He has no clue what's going on in the real world. [EDIT]
Now just because the station is to be manned, does not mean the owner or GM has to use them as a jock. We had a situation here in Nashville where a station has a 6 tower directional antenna pattern at night and 2 tower daytime. At Night, the station owner just hired a young lady to just to sit and babysit the automation and do a few office task.
For those of you looking for jock jobs, don't take this as the FCC is telling station owners that have to have live jocks on the air 24/7. Any monkey can run a board. My 4 year old niece can operate a console and a computer. There are stations that have no studio at all. All they have is a rack mount computer, wired to the audio processor and then to the transmitter, which Martin seems to be pissed about. The reason for this rule making is just incase of an emergency in a community. I suspect there will be opposition filed by state broadcaster's associations, and don't be surprised if the NAB starts to voice comments against this rule.
[EDIT-offensive content]
In my personal opinion, I have no respect for FCC Commissioner Kevin Martin at all. I've consider going to the NAB and other state broadcast associations together to get this guy removed from his office. He has no clue what's going on in the real world. [EDIT]
Now just because the station is to be manned, does not mean the owner or GM has to use them as a jock. We had a situation here in Nashville where a station has a 6 tower directional antenna pattern at night and 2 tower daytime. At Night, the station owner just hired a young lady to just to sit and babysit the automation and do a few office task.
For those of you looking for jock jobs, don't take this as the FCC is telling station owners that have to have live jocks on the air 24/7. Any monkey can run a board. My 4 year old niece can operate a console and a computer. There are stations that have no studio at all. All they have is a rack mount computer, wired to the audio processor and then to the transmitter, which Martin seems to be pissed about. The reason for this rule making is just incase of an emergency in a community. I suspect there will be opposition filed by state broadcaster's associations, and don't be surprised if the NAB starts to voice comments against this rule.
[EDIT-offensive content]
@
In the old days, the only reason for staffing at all times a station was on the air was not so someone could be there to announce a thunderstorm warning at 3am, or because the FCC wanted a federal jobs program for broadcasting school graduates; it was because broadcast equipment was less stable and reliable than it is now, and particularly AM directonal antena systems could get out of phase and cause interference. Now you really think this is going to create new jock jobs? No way! I can think of a couple of stations that would go dark tommorrow with such a requirement. Do we mandate that stations stay on 24/7? The kid can't announce the tornado warning between video games if the station's not on all night. In "the good old days", many of them signed off at 10pm.
In the old days, the only reason for staffing at all times a station was on the air was not so someone could be there to announce a thunderstorm warning at 3am, or because the FCC wanted a federal jobs program for broadcasting school graduates; it was because broadcast equipment was less stable and reliable than it is now, and particularly AM directonal antena systems could get out of phase and cause interference. Now you really think this is going to create new jock jobs? No way! I can think of a couple of stations that would go dark tommorrow with such a requirement. Do we mandate that stations stay on 24/7? The kid can't announce the tornado warning between video games if the station's not on all night. In "the good old days", many of them signed off at 10pm.
Re: @
I have to agree with groldies on this one. What a pointless waste of station resources to REQUIRE a "jock" or board op to just sit there at whatever rate of $$, simply to announce to the world that the EAS is now active and something might be coming their way? Fellas, the EAS will go off anyways w/a message during any day, overnight or weekend hour, regardless of if there's someone there or not.
The FCC would be better advised to conduct inspections to ensure the public's safety, instead of more rulemaking by the DC lawyers. Please go and check out these stations in the field & make sure those EAS encode/decoders are actually WORKING!!!
gr8oldies said:
I have to agree with groldies on this one. What a pointless waste of station resources to REQUIRE a "jock" or board op to just sit there at whatever rate of $$, simply to announce to the world that the EAS is now active and something might be coming their way? Fellas, the EAS will go off anyways w/a message during any day, overnight or weekend hour, regardless of if there's someone there or not.
The FCC would be better advised to conduct inspections to ensure the public's safety, instead of more rulemaking by the DC lawyers. Please go and check out these stations in the field & make sure those EAS encode/decoders are actually WORKING!!!
Re: @
How about spending some of those resources on an EAS system that actually worked? Like it or not, automation and voice tracking are here to stay. It seems to me that we'd all be better off working on something that recognizes reality and actually provides public benefit. I suppose that is too simple?
radioplayer said:
How about spending some of those resources on an EAS system that actually worked? Like it or not, automation and voice tracking are here to stay. It seems to me that we'd all be better off working on something that recognizes reality and actually provides public benefit. I suppose that is too simple?
Indeed. It may make sense to have the primary relay stations manned 24/7 (and, since most of these stations are already in the larger clusters, they probably are); but the recent flurry of EAS proposals are prime examples of bureaucrats fighting over turf.
Exhibit #1 "MINOT." A prime example of the big lie. Since everyone else involved in the system is "guvmint," in one form or another, broadcasters become the scapegoats.
In a recent NPRM on EAS where the FCC required everyone to incorporate the CAP (common alerting protocol or something like that) into the EAS black box (as soon as homeland security figures out what the CAP protocol should be); the Commission announced that broadcasters shouldn't rely on NWS.
OK, rrrriiiiiigggght!
Exhibit #1 "MINOT." A prime example of the big lie. Since everyone else involved in the system is "guvmint," in one form or another, broadcasters become the scapegoats.
In a recent NPRM on EAS where the FCC required everyone to incorporate the CAP (common alerting protocol or something like that) into the EAS black box (as soon as homeland security figures out what the CAP protocol should be); the Commission announced that broadcasters shouldn't rely on NWS.
OK, rrrriiiiiigggght!
Reminds me of the silly stuff corporate brought to us before the holiday.
By law, we're not suppose to ask a job applicant of their race or other matters.
However, we're suppose to accurately report on all race, sex, and other factors, as part of our accountability of hiring minorities.
Is this what is called "mutual exclusive" applications?
By law, we're not suppose to ask a job applicant of their race or other matters.
However, we're suppose to accurately report on all race, sex, and other factors, as part of our accountability of hiring minorities.
Is this what is called "mutual exclusive" applications?
TomT said:
Tom,
I don't know if you know this, but all stations are required to monitor at least TWO different sources regarding the CAP and almost everyone that I know is hooked up into 3 or more. We're not talking about just over the air signals either. A lot of stations have their systems tied to AP/UPI or other services on the wire as well.
As for operators, again if you aren't the Primary station, it's really a waste of $$ resources. It would be better to plan along the lines of the intial system to announce, then depending on the severity of the emergency to call in personnel at a later point.
The current EAS broadcast system does work well when those in charge at the broadcast stations in your area take it seriously. It also helps to have a good EAS State plan along with one in the local community that is tested and used in the event that something does happen. Are you involved in your state's plan? I am and my station is as well.
This really gets down to a case of tweaking the system and making some minor adjustments, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater folks.
In my state, one large company (local--not he whose name we must not speak) controls the state broadcasting association as well as EAS. Never hear of EAS meetings until after they are over.
The CAP--Common Alerting Protocol--is not officially in use because Homeland Security has to approve it first.
Once approved, all EAS participants will have 180 days to install whatever magical black boxes will be required to use it.
I'm well aware of the requirement to monitor two sources. Indeed, Commission use to all but require one to be NWS. That's why I thought it was interesting that they dissed NWS so much in the recent NPRM. We monitor 4 sources--two NWS offices & two primary relays. We don't have a "wire" machine, haven't for years. AP got too greedy.
The CAP--Common Alerting Protocol--is not officially in use because Homeland Security has to approve it first.
Once approved, all EAS participants will have 180 days to install whatever magical black boxes will be required to use it.
I'm well aware of the requirement to monitor two sources. Indeed, Commission use to all but require one to be NWS. That's why I thought it was interesting that they dissed NWS so much in the recent NPRM. We monitor 4 sources--two NWS offices & two primary relays. We don't have a "wire" machine, haven't for years. AP got too greedy.
Tom T,
You've made some good points. I think the reason this works in my area and not so well in yours apparently, is because this whole thing has been run more on a state-to-state level and even just more regional, not collective throughout the country. As I pointed out to you in my earlier post, the system does needs some tweaking. What it does not need however is a over-zealous approach.
My fear is that the FCC's going to ram-through a heavy dose of new nonsense regs just because they screwed it up themselves the first time up and they now want to cover their behinds by dumping this entire issue on local radio.
The system for the most part is "working". Can it be better? Absolutely. But at what cost and how crazy does it need to get? The latest proposal is nothing short of driving good broadcasters under.....and what about all those so-called broadcast "translators" out there? They'll be exempt I'm sure.....but the real educationals and the smaller local guys are going to have to foot this one too. Both in time and expense. You watch.
I'm afraid that being reasonable in the area of dayparts, staffing and the EAS is fast becoming a lost art.
You've made some good points. I think the reason this works in my area and not so well in yours apparently, is because this whole thing has been run more on a state-to-state level and even just more regional, not collective throughout the country. As I pointed out to you in my earlier post, the system does needs some tweaking. What it does not need however is a over-zealous approach.
My fear is that the FCC's going to ram-through a heavy dose of new nonsense regs just because they screwed it up themselves the first time up and they now want to cover their behinds by dumping this entire issue on local radio.
The system for the most part is "working". Can it be better? Absolutely. But at what cost and how crazy does it need to get? The latest proposal is nothing short of driving good broadcasters under.....and what about all those so-called broadcast "translators" out there? They'll be exempt I'm sure.....but the real educationals and the smaller local guys are going to have to foot this one too. Both in time and expense. You watch.
I'm afraid that being reasonable in the area of dayparts, staffing and the EAS is fast becoming a lost art.
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