I have not lived in the Dayton market for several years now but do get back in there frequently to visit relatives but , in my opinion (and yes opinions are like.....uh....noses we all have one) the best Dayton Radio days is back when WING was ratings king and Steve Kirk ruled mornings. Sadly, radio of that magnitude is gone.
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Dayton Ratings
- Thread starter lovejamminoldies
- Start date
radio30 said:
As one who fondly remembers those days (I first met Kirkie at the studio on First Street around age 12), and as one who worked on-air for the station in the 80's, I can appreciate your feelings. Though there was much good (and some not-so-good) about WING, the fact is as an AM Top 40 station, WING was a powerhouse for its time, and Steve, though he had both fans, supporters and detractors, was always there for Dayton and did a lot of good things behind the scenes for people which have never been made public.
But, all things come to an end. WING, as a music station with Steve or not would have likely fallen apart the way it was being programmed at the end of its run. The management there at the time had, in my humble opinion, little understanding of why and how WING worked. And their actions late in the 80's and into the early 90's were more brought by financial pressure caused by company debt. (Which was, so we employees heard, in the millions at that time.)
I think Steve saw that coming, and understood how and why he felt that "25 years was enough".
I am glad to see he is enjoying retired life now down in Florida. He's a happy guy, so I hear, and deserves to enjoy his time now that no longer has to get up at "Oh-dark-thirty."
With regards to the discussions about the "current" stations in the market, I think both LJO and Alans are forgetting something you should both consider:
Radio stations are no longer "one size fits all", they are not all alike. All stations in a market are NOT equal in management's eyes. There are "players" and there are "flankers". Each has a different role within a cluster situation.
CHR, for example, is the most expensive format to operate, if it's done right. But, let's look at it through the prizm of management eyeglasses. If a station only has a fairly limited signal, is it worth spending a half or three-quarters of a million dollars, or more annually to go from a 2.0 to a 3.0 in the numbers? Will the resulting advertising be worth it? Maybe...maybe not.
The A/C market in Dayton is now as fractionalized as I have ever seen it. There are now several stations (if you count the fact that WTUE is now an adult male station, though rock, they are now going largely after adults with their "oldies AOR" largely of the 60's and 70's, so they have at least one foot in that adult lane. And, even stations like WZLR, though also playing rock music, are largely playing "oldies" which I define as music that's over 20 years old.) Now add in Lite, Mix, Fly, WROU, Big and to a degree, even K-99.1 (Country is, many would say, today's "A/C" in some respects), and there's a real big traffic jam in the "lane" which leads to adult listeners.
It takes some very careful, well-thought out and researched programming and promotions to achieve the critical mass necessary to get big numbers in this environment. And every station has a limit of what can be achieved when the competition amounts to 2, 3 or more stations.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that, while I agree with some of things you're saying, there are no easy "one size fits all" solutions for any particular station. And all stations are not alike.
Radio stations are no longer "one size fits all", they are not all alike. All stations in a market are NOT equal in management's eyes. There are "players" and there are "flankers". Each has a different role within a cluster situation.
CHR, for example, is the most expensive format to operate, if it's done right. But, let's look at it through the prizm of management eyeglasses. If a station only has a fairly limited signal, is it worth spending a half or three-quarters of a million dollars, or more annually to go from a 2.0 to a 3.0 in the numbers? Will the resulting advertising be worth it? Maybe...maybe not.
The A/C market in Dayton is now as fractionalized as I have ever seen it. There are now several stations (if you count the fact that WTUE is now an adult male station, though rock, they are now going largely after adults with their "oldies AOR" largely of the 60's and 70's, so they have at least one foot in that adult lane. And, even stations like WZLR, though also playing rock music, are largely playing "oldies" which I define as music that's over 20 years old.) Now add in Lite, Mix, Fly, WROU, Big and to a degree, even K-99.1 (Country is, many would say, today's "A/C" in some respects), and there's a real big traffic jam in the "lane" which leads to adult listeners.
It takes some very careful, well-thought out and researched programming and promotions to achieve the critical mass necessary to get big numbers in this environment. And every station has a limit of what can be achieved when the competition amounts to 2, 3 or more stations.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that, while I agree with some of things you're saying, there are no easy "one size fits all" solutions for any particular station. And all stations are not alike.
I'm pretty familiar with flankers and players in the Dayton market. The players are WGTZ, WHIO AM/FM, WHKO, WLQT, WDHT, WXEG, WTUE, and WMMX. The rest are flankers.KevinFodor said:
Kevin, you're right, the market for Adult music is logjammed. What I am trying to get at is that WMMX needs to change with the times. They should immediately dump the 80s. If they were more current-based, or hell, 90s-2000s-Today, they could even move Seacrest over to 'MMX since it's a bigger signal(I believe there is also a Hot AC version of "On Air" as well). They could keep their staff at current levels, which wouldn't cost them any more $$$.
Right now, WGTZ/Fly 92.9 sounds better than it has in quite some time. No slow crap like 'MMX likes to sneak in("Open Arms" anyone?). My guess is if Mix doesn't make any adjustments, Fly will eventually steal even more of their listeners and overtake them in the ratings. Let's face it, Mix's audience is abandoning ship in droves. They don't like what they're hearing. For years, CC used 'DKF as a thorn in Z-93's side, most likely to keep Mix at or near the top. Now that Z-93 is history, 'DKF serves little purpose IMO(Not to mention getting their clock cleaned by Hot 102.9). CC has failed to change with the market, and their cockiness is catching up to them. Looks like the Titanic is starting to sink at 101 Pine Street. Uh-oh. :-\
I agree 120%. Main Line is the ones running things in Dayton.
WROU - #1 AC station in the market.
WDHT - #1 CHR/Rhythmic
WGTZ - points away from beating Mix
And I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN was beating WONE too.
Now for WKSW.... yeah, that's their flanker. ;D
And yes, they do have a Hot AC version for On-Air
WROU - #1 AC station in the market.
WDHT - #1 CHR/Rhythmic
WGTZ - points away from beating Mix
And I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN was beating WONE too.
Now for WKSW.... yeah, that's their flanker. ;D
And yes, they do have a Hot AC version for On-Air
WING-AM has always beaten up on WONE. I thought it was a stupid move to get rid of Adult Standards for Sports back in '03. The move hasn't paid off.lovejamminoldies said:
WGTZ WILL beat Mix...it's not if, it's when...remember they have done it once, in their first book after they launched...I believe it was 5.5-5.3. Sorry Mix, but Fly sounds consistently better. Mix is sleepy, Fly is upbeat and movin'.
IMO, whenever Mainline finally moves 101.7 to 101.5, I think a wise move would to be to put ESPN Radio on 101.5 as WING-FM...it has worked beautifully for WBNS-FM/Columbus. Hopefully they move to 101.5 soon no matter what so I can finally pick up Q102 without all that lousy 101.7 interference!
K
kirkiefan
Guest
After several years of CC leaving us in the lurch of which Dayton station to sell and the smokescreen "aloha trust" hype. I think it is high time to sell off 107.7....perhaps back to what it used to be....... WDAO.
WDAO since selling off its original FM has never been quite the same since it was forced to move to AM which I thought was unfair. I have to applaud Michael Ecton,Pam Byrd and Stan The Man for keeping it going since then. I still remember their original studio location on Cincinnati St. clearly visible off I-75.
Make AM 1210 an urban talker with soul gospel and bring back classic R&B to 107.7 ...with a "Wild 93.9" sound.
(Are you listening Jim Johnson?)
WDAO since selling off its original FM has never been quite the same since it was forced to move to AM which I thought was unfair. I have to applaud Michael Ecton,Pam Byrd and Stan The Man for keeping it going since then. I still remember their original studio location on Cincinnati St. clearly visible off I-75.
Make AM 1210 an urban talker with soul gospel and bring back classic R&B to 107.7 ...with a "Wild 93.9" sound.
(Are you listening Jim Johnson?)
kirkiefan said:
Kirkie-Fan:
While I don't think that's ever going to happen, I do agree with you that I would love to see Jim Johnson get an FM frequency and bring WDAO back on an FM channel.
Matter of fact...Turk Logan's retired from WCSU now, and is promoting his own "soul" internet station...wouldn't it be interesting if the two could be brought back together?
Just thinkin'...
K
kirkiefan
Guest
(....in early 70s hip lingo
SOLID!!!!!!!
SOLID!!!!!!!
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