DEAR ESPN AND THE REST OF YOUR BROOD..

[PTBoardOp94]

Lots of kids play soccer as well, but I don't forsee MLS ever having a big-time TV contract.

And there are dozens of small race tracks and drag strips where people race cars every Saturday night. There's one just up the road, and I can name another half-dozen within a couple hours' drive. (I do not participate in the sport, for the record). Not as popular as Baseball or Basketball or <insert some other sport here>, but perhaps more popular than you realize BRNout

 

[voicetrack]

It is certainly stalled in its attempts to gain traction in the big markets outside of the South.

Really? I guess you dont consider Indianapolis, Kansas City, Chicago, Phoenix, or Los Angeles to be "big" markets?

 

[landtuna]

Motor racing, in all its various forms, is the most popular non-participant event in the USA. NASCAR, at the moment, is at the top of the heap. A few years ago it was USAC/CHAMPCar open wheelers. But change is inevitable and something else will come along to trump NASCAR one of these days - sooner if NASCAR keeps shooting itself in the foot with its flurry of rules changes.

The NBA has always been a niche sport despite the fact that virtually every grade, middle, high school and college sports a team. The NBA branded itself with not-so-smart spokesmen (read: street thugs) and the whole hip-hop "culture" (now there's an oxymoron!) making itself an urban sport played by unusually tall or large people with minimum brain power and frequent appearances in courtrooms all over America. I mean, really.....how much "talent" does a 6'10" player have to have to put the ball into a net only two feet over his head? Professional basketball was once a game of grace and beauty. No more.

Hockey, on the other hand, is older than most other sports played today and has a national following in Canada, the Northeast and Midwest USA, all of Scandanavia and most of the former East European satellite countries. It takes considerable skill and talent to play well but the cost of equipment and ice time will always be a limiting factor for the introduction of the game to kids who will become eventual fans and players.

Soccer is an ideal game for kids up through high school. After that it becomes a defensive game and big-time boring. It seems to draw large crowds outside the USA because the fans have no other place to drink and fight. It will never become a mainstream American professional sport.

YMMV.

 

[Nate Wesley]

As for the NBA, it's hard to say. It's golden years were definitely the 80s and 90s with stars like Bird, Magic, and Jordan. The league has done a poor job of promoting it in recent years. And, the NCAA has definitely taken some of the wind out of its sails as well - during March madness, few bother with the NBA. However, it could catch fire again someday, remember that lots of kids still play pick-up basketball.

Of the top 15 cable shows last week, the NBA playoffs took up four of the top ten spots:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080508/D90HL92G0.html

NBA basketball may be a lot of things, but a niche sport it is not.

 

[Nate Wesley]

The NBA has always been a niche sport despite the fact that virtually every grade, middle, high school and college sports a team. The NBA branded itself with not-so-smart spokesmen (read: street thugs) and the whole hip-hop "culture" (now there's an oxymoron!) making itself an urban sport played by unusually tall or large people with minimum brain power and frequent appearances in courtrooms all over America. I mean, really.....how much "talent" does a 6'10" player have to have to put the ball into a net only two feet over his head? Professional basketball was once a game of grace and beauty. No more.

Wow, stereotype much? I'm almost disappointed that you didn't note how those 'street thugs' drag their knuckles on the court, causing a potential fire hazard on the wooden floor. :

So let's get this straight: Any tall stiff can play basketball, but it takes 'considerable skill and talent' to play hockey. Do a quick search on the following folks: Manute Bol, Will Perdue, Gheorghe Muresan, Kwame Brown. Come back and tell me how many championships they've won, then try to tell folks how pro basketball sucks. But don't forget to remind folks of years of practice it takes to perfect a close-fisted beatdown of your opponent while not tripping on the ice, okay?

You'd have done better simply posting "I don't like pro basketball" then going back to your nightly Bill O'Reilly telecast.

 

[landtuna]

I challenge you to listen to any NBA player talk for over two minutes then explain to me just what it was they said. That isn't a stereotype, it is fact. The last NBA player speaking good English was Bill Russell.

And jumping two feet in the air can be done by almost anyone - even athletes with ice skates.

Your example of NBA players winning championships is a non sequitur as they compete with each other only and not with athletes in other sports.

Sorry.....you don't like someone pointing out a 'sport' with developmentally-challenged players wearing sloppy getto uniforms and covered in tattoos it won't change the fact that it does exist. And the NFL is catching up very quickly.

 

[dhett]

I challenge you to listen to any NBA player talk for over two minutes then explain to me just what it was they said. That isn't a stereotype, it is fact. The last NBA player speaking good English was Bill Russell.

Hmmm, I guess then (enter NBA player's name here) wasn't an NBA player.

Hometown non-players:

• Kevin Johnson
• Charles Barkley
• Steve Nash
• Shawn Marion
• Grant Hill
• Tom Chambers
• Dan Majerle

Other notable non-players:

• Magic Johnson
• Larry Bird
• Michael Jordan
• Julius Erving
• Kobe Bryant

Please feel free to add other non-players.

 

[BRNout]

It is certainly stalled in its attempts to gain traction in the big markets outside of the South.

Really? I guess you dont consider Indianapolis, Kansas City, Chicago, Phoenix, or Los Angeles to be "big" markets?

Define "popular" in LA or Chicago please. Last time I checked, NASCAR was not all that "popular" in either place when compared with other sports. About NASCAR in Phoenix, I can't say - though there are a lot of trailer parks there (tee hee ;D)

None of the others would be considered big markets unless you also count Hartford and Buffalo as "big." Do that and we're 2 for 4 when it comes to popularity for NASCAR.

 

[landtuna]

If you read my post very carefully you will notice I didn't make the obvious, obvious as doing so would provoke a major flame war and I would be declared a racist - which I am absolutely not.

But as far as my earlier statement goes it does not apply just to black NBA players. Look through your "hometown" list and one name should pop out at you.

That is the end of my participation in this discussion.

 

[landtuna]

About NASCAR in Phoenix, I can't say

NASCAR sells out two races per year at Phoenix International Raceway. As events here go they are each larger than the Stupidbowl.

But I don't have to defend NASCAR. The numbers speak for themselves. Any other motor racing organization, and most other sports in general, would kill for the numbers and revenue that NASCAR generates.

I'm not saying it is my favorite type of racing or that it is the world's finest but there are obviously a lot of people who do. And as far as fans.....the attendees at the various NASCAR tracks I have visited since the 70's have been much better behaved and far less obnoxious than in any NFL stadium (or NBA gym for that matter).

Maybe they can just hold their liquor better. ;D

 

[dhett]

If you read my post very carefully you will notice I didn't make the obvious, obvious as doing so would provoke a major flame war and I would be declared a racist - which I am absolutely not.

But as far as my earlier statement goes it does not apply just to black NBA players. Look through your "hometown" list and one name should pop out at you.

That is the end of my participation in this discussion.

It was your statement that the last NBA player to speak good English was Bill Russell that I found ludicrous. There have been so many well-spoken players since Russell, including all of those I listed. If you look at my list again, you'll see that it was race-neutral; I didn't assume that you had been referring to race. Of course, I left out the foreign players, as they do take a bit of translation effort sometimes.

I don't like the thug element in the NBA either, but there are many more players not involved in that. It's the nature of news that "man bites dog" gets covered, not "dog bites man", so it's easy to assume that those being covered in the news are more representative than they actually are.

 

[N_D_Radioguy]

• Charles Barkley
• Magic Johnson
• Larry Bird

I'm totally with you on your point, but none of these three is particularly well-spoken.

I have personally interviewed all three multiple times; all are intelligent with a deep understanding of the game, but none is all that effective as a communicator.

I honestly don't understand how Barkley stays on TV.

Erudite NBAers worth adding to your list:

• Oscar Robertson
• Reggie Miller
• David Robinson
• Bill Bradley
• Patrick Ewing (taciturn, indeed, but well-spoken when he chooses to speak)
• Hakeem Olajuwon
• George Mikan
• Wilt Chamberlain (aside from bragging about his sexploits)
• Kareem Adbul-Jabbar (again, not the warmest but...)
• George Gervin

 

[dhett]

• Charles Barkley
• Magic Johnson
• Larry Bird

I'm totally with you on your point, but none of these three is particularly well-spoken.

I have personally interviewed all three multiple times; all are intelligent with a deep understanding of the game, but none is all that effective as a communicator.

I honestly don't understand how Barkley stays on TV.

Point well taken. I guess I was just thinking that in the case of all three, I never had a problem understanding what they were saying. In Barkley's case, my difficulty was in understanding why he said it. ;D

As for why Barkley is on TV: colorful personality. Always prone to say something outrageous that will stir ratings.

Just curious: does the N_D_ stand for Notre Dame, or North Dakota, or neither?

 

[N_D_Radioguy]

Just curious: does the N_D_ stand for Notre Dame, or North Dakota, or neither?

How about "Not Divulging"?

;D

 

[BRNout]

About NASCAR in Phoenix, I can't say

NASCAR sells out two races per year at Phoenix International Raceway. As events here go they are each larger than the Stupidbowl.

But I don't have to defend NASCAR. The numbers speak for themselves.

Add those totals together and compare them to the annual admission figures for the D-Backs or Cardinals and see how they compare.

To cite a recent example, just because 110,000 tickets were sold in London last year for an NFL game between the Giants and Dolphins doesn't mean that the sport is popular there. It was a one-off deal.

Just like selling out a six-figure track twice a year still does not even come close to adding up to the collective attendance at a (much smaller) baseball stadium over the period of a season. Not even for lowly teams like the Marlins or Rays. So let's be careful about how we define "popular" - one huge event does not necessarily indicate that a given sport is hugely popular. It's the overall following that matters.

Go to a place like Chicago or LA and most people who are talking sports are discussing the Cubs or White Sox or Bears or Dodgers or Lakers or Bulls, etc. NASCAR comes in way down the list. That's not true in Charlotte or Atlanta where the sport IS hugely popular. Hence my comment about it not being popular in the big markets and it's being a niche sport.

 

[landtuna]

Add those totals together and compare them to the annual admission figures for the D-Backs or Cardinals and see how they compare.

You are comparing 7 home games (Cahdnulls) and 40 home games (D'backs) to TWO NASCAR events? Where did you learn math?

To cite a recent example, just because 110,000 tickets were sold in London last year for an NFL game between the Giants and Dolphins doesn't mean that the sport is popular there. It was a one-off deal.

Agreed....sort of. However, 'American' football is now being broadcast all over Europe on a regular basis. There are several leagues playing in major European cities. It does have a large following although nothing like their domestic sports.

Go to a place like Chicago or LA and most people who are talking sports are discussing the Cubs or White Sox or Bears or Dodgers or Lakers or Bulls, etc. NASCAR comes in way down the list. That's not true in Charlotte or Atlanta where the sport IS hugely popular. Hence my comment about it not being popular in the big markets and it's being a niche sport.

Again, you're partially correct. But making an assumption that NASCAR is niche outside the Deep South is completely erroneous. Doubt me? Listen to any NASCAR call-in show and note where the calls are coming from. Also note where NASCAR (and its undercard series) have expanded over the past decade. Baseball, football, hockey and basketball have all had substantially more time to become ingrained in American culture. NASCAR has been around only since 1950.

But you also ignored one important point. My post referred to "motor racing" and not just NASCAR.

Again, I don't have to defend NASCAR. Every sports organization with the exception of the NFL are envious. That's the bottom line.

 

[BRNout]

You are comparing 7 home games (Cahdnulls) and 40 home games (D'backs) to TWO NASCAR events? Where did you learn math?

You missed my point entirely. Selling out a huge stadium twice a year does not necessarily mean that a sporting event is hugely popular. It's supply and demand. That's why I made the point of comparing the annual attendance of other sports versus NASCAR. All of the NASCAR fans are fond of pointing out how their tracks pack in 100,000+ fans and the sport is thus popular. And my answer to that is that it is not necessarily indicative of anything. Add up the annual attendance figures and the point becomes moot.

Go to a place like Chicago or LA and most people who are talking sports are discussing the Cubs or White Sox or Bears or Dodgers or Lakers or Bulls, etc. NASCAR comes in way down the list. That's not true in Charlotte or Atlanta where the sport IS hugely popular. Hence my comment about it not being popular in the big markets and it's being a niche sport.

Again, you're partially correct. But making an assumption that NASCAR is niche outside the Deep South is completely erroneous. Doubt me? Listen to any NASCAR call-in show and note where the calls are coming from. Also note where NASCAR (and its undercard series) have expanded over the past decade. Baseball, football, hockey and basketball have all had substantially more time to become ingrained in American culture. NASCAR has been around only since 1950.

Counting call-ins doesn't prove anything. Call screeners can easily pick and choose where the callers are from to make the show sound "balanced." You should know that if you hang around this board long enough. Are there fans in New York and Chicago? Sure - probably a lot of them. But as a percentage of the overall audience (market share), it's low in those places. Conversely, NASCAR's market share is relatively high in the South (not necessarily the 'deep' south) and in parts of the midwest. But it is NOT a national sport like baseball or football or basketball.

By the way, we're talking NASCAR because that was the point of the original post. And, you can't really compare the popularity of all motor sports that easily - there is a wide variety out there and the additive popularity of all of them would be tough to ascertain.

Again, I don't have to defend NASCAR. Every sports organization with the exception of the NFL are envious. That's the bottom line.

Yet here we are. I seriously doubt that "every sports organization" except the NFL are envious. I would doubt that the MLB is sweating much and the NBA generally caters to a different crowd anyhow. They have work to do - but auto racing has nothing to do with that. If the NHL and the NBA are envious of any other venue, I would imagine that it's the NFL. That is the juggernaut and competes more directly with their products.

 

[landtuna]

Shoot Dave Despain an email and ask him how his producers screen calls. He will tell you they do it primarily by relevance to the topic at hand and not geography. He is just as likely to get a call from New Hampshire or San Francisco as from Tennessee or South Carolina.

 

[BRNout]

Any producer worth his salt will try to mix callers geographically and by gender. For example, a female caller to a political talk program usually ends up on-air a lot more quickly than a male caller (because most are male). Of course it's a bit more complicated than that for that format, but it happens. If this guy has 8 callers from the Carolinas and one from New York, you can bet the ranch that the New Yorker will get mixed in and quickly. As long as his topic aligns with the host's wishes.

A national show will get tons of calls - the screeners have a lot to pick and choose from. That is how it works and you cannot draw inferences from such a show. If you could then New York and San Francisco would be two of the most conservative cities in the US because their respective conservative talk stations do very well. Clearly that is not the case.

 

[landtuna]

We were talking specifically about NASCAR, not hate talk radio in general.