Decent low-$ FM processor?

[greg.hahn]

I have a friend with an LPFM, and he needs a processor. He can probably only spend $2k-$3k.

My world is one of high end Omnias and Orbans, so I know nothing of the cheaper stuff. He could probably get a used 8100/XT for that amount of money, but it may be 15 years old right out of the box. Where's it going to be in 5 years?

So what's good? What would compete with that XT and yet have new parts? I see from another thread the Omnia-1 for FM is shipping. That sounds like a definite possibility. Does anyone know the going price for that?

What else is there to choose from?

 

[menotti1]

Omnia one FM street price 2500.00 go for it..great value for the bucks

 

[jboydingram]

David III...Tops...From Inovonics.

 

[Robert Bass]

As much as I love the 8100's, those are somewhat hard to find, and finding parts for them is a whole different ballgame. In this situation, I would probably look for a newer, used model such as the Orban 8200, 8300 or the 2200. At least most of those are still easy to find, and they will probably fit the bill until you can splurge for something you really want at a later time.

R

 

[Chuck]

The DSP-X or the DSP-X Mini from Broadcast Warehouse is a good choice for any LPFM (or even full power) station. They deliver a lot of "bang for the buck" and will easily out-perform many processors in their price range.

 

[easyfm]

He could consider doing it in software for cheap/free and then put something like a Behringer compressor/limiter after that ahead of the tx.

 

[Robert Bass]

He could consider doing it in software for cheap/free and then put something like a Behringer compressor/limiter after that ahead of the tx.

Last I heard Behringer's DSP9024 was discontinued and no replacement was ever introduced on the market.

R

 

[gtomas]

So far, DSPX-FM/HD has been the best-buy in lower price-range category IMO... I'd stay far away from any Behringer or in fact anything that is not designed for broadcast.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[RadioMan203]

Last I heard Behringer's DSP9024 was discontinued and no replacement was ever introduced on the market.

Thank God for that - one of the worse boxes I ever have had the dis-pleasure of working with. An underpowered box that makes a better doorstop than a processor. I wouldn't wish that box on anybody!

The station that had this went to a pair of dbx Quantums and had a unique, ballsy sound. They could have gotten by with one Quantum, but it was a great sound nonetheless.

I think the problem is finding "cheap" (i.e., inexpensive) and "good" (both sonically as well as condition) in the same box. Many older boxes are going to suffer from discontinued parts inside while popular boxes are still demanding bigger bucks than what they should be worth.

 

[pqgeorge]

The Inovonics David II is a very good processor with a built in Stereo generator and the price is very reasonable. I used one for years on my Class D and still have it as backup in case the main 8100A were to ever fail. As for the Orban 8100A, as long as you maintain an 8100A properly, and replace the caps when they "go dry" on you, there's really no reason for it to fail on you. The 8100A I have is 26 years old (has been re-chipped) and is being fed by an Aphex Compellor in front of it. It handles our 50's - 70's Oldies in Stereo format really sounding clean and bright. It's a real workhorse.


Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts

 

[Chuck]

The Inovonics David II is a very good processor with a built in Stereo generator and the price is very reasonable. I used one for years on my Class D and still have it as backup in case the main 8100A were to ever fail. As for the Orban 8100A, as long as you maintain an 8100A properly, and replace the caps when they "go dry" on you, there's really no reason for it to fail on you. The 8100A I have is 26 years old (has been re-chipped) and is being fed by an Aphex Compellor in front of it. It handles our 50's - 70's Oldies in Stereo format really sounding clean and bright. It's a real workhorse.


Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts

The David is OK. A nearby station uses one, and we've been using a DSP-X since they came. It is easy to switch between the two stations top see what each one sounds like, and on occasion, we even play the same type of music. Their station manager called me up one day to ask why we sound so much better than they do. It's not that they sound bad, but we tend to "pop out" on the dial a bit better. The only explanation I can give is the DSP-X.

Of course, there is more to mis-adjust on the DSP-X. You can make it sound bad, but if you start with one of the factory pre-sets, you won't go very far wrong. There isn't a lot to adjust on the David, which in some ways is a good thing.

I will also say that I've heard vintage Orban 8100A's sound really good. The problem is the ones you find on eBay may need work.

 

[Robert Bass]

Last I heard Behringer's DSP9024 was discontinued and no replacement was ever introduced on the market.

Thank God for that - one of the worse boxes I ever have had the dis-pleasure of working with. An underpowered box that makes a better doorstop than a processor. I wouldn't wish that box on anybody!

My experience with the box was different from yours, and I actually liked how it sounded. Probably the major drawback I could see, has more to do with understanding how to configure it. It's not user friendly enough for the inexperienced type, but if you spend some time learning the interface, it can work wonders.

The reason I have heard it was discontinued, was due to some sort of compliance issue with the design. It's been awhile since I researched it, but IIRC the FCC claimed something like 12 of Behringers products were not in compliance with FCC specs for U.S. Operation. The DSP9024 was one of the alleged non-compliant devices. This was in late 2006, so I wouldn't be surprised if Behringer is trying to correct the situation.

R

 

[RadioMan203]

Last I heard Behringer's DSP9024 was discontinued and no replacement was ever introduced on the market.

Thank God for that - one of the worse boxes I ever have had the dis-pleasure of working with. An underpowered box that makes a better doorstop than a processor. I wouldn't wish that box on anybody!

My experience with the box was different from yours, and I actually liked how it sounded. Probably the major drawback I could see, has more to do with understanding how to configure it. It's not user friendly enough for the inexperienced type, but if you spend some time learning the interface, it can work wonders.

You're kidding, right? I've dealt with over 40 years of different broadcast audio processing equipment and the Ultradyne 9024 is just plain underpowered, plain and simple. I suppose if you're using the thing for a non-critical use it's fine, especially since it's designed to be a musician's toy instead of being a real processor. I've diddled with firmware re-write mods on some of the newer boxes and re-worked older analog boxes with compoment changes so I do know my way around audio and the 9024 is far from a serious contender. If it worked for you my only guess was that you were probably using it as a gentle processor as there isn't enough DSP power under the hood to keep up with anything resembling aggressive. The limiter was the biggest joke of all.

Getting back to the thread at hand, you can always look on ebay or on the radio-classifieds board to see if anybody has something that will fit the bill for the station. Don't be surprised if you see utter junk going for big bucks, as I see 40 year old Audimaxes and Volumaxes going for more than $200 for the mono units on ebay - I think this is too excessive given the technology and the age of these devices.

 

[SoxFan04]

I saw an Omnia Turbo listed on ebay earlier today, might fit your budget???

Jon

 

[stace]

If I were you I'd go for an Optimod 2200. I upgraded a station running a David II onto one years ago and they just about creamed their jeans. Then it was up against 8200's and Omnia.fm's and sounded reasonable, just lacked a little brightness control. If they're a similar structure to the 8100 (but digital) and THEY sounded so good with Prisms. Would the 2200 sound good with a set of these sound good too?

 

[menotti1]

2200,nah, i replaced one with the omnia 3 turbo and it stomped it.if you can pay the 2500 for the new omnia one fm that will be the way to go,or a used omnia3 turbo or dsp-x..and for gosh sakes stay away from behringer,it is crap...My stations run the omnia 6 and the dsp-extra.both great units but probably way out of reach for a lpfm..the dsp-mini is good but it's not a loudness box. imho

ps i checked the one on ebay.listed too high 1500 is about what it's worth.before i would pay the buy it now price,i would get the new omnia one fm(4band) .i have ordered one to back up my 6,should i ever have to do that.i believe in redundantcy, xmtrs, processors, sound cards, etc...

 

[Robert Bass]

Last I heard Behringer's DSP9024 was discontinued and no replacement was ever introduced on the market.

Thank God for that - one of the worse boxes I ever have had the dis-pleasure of working with. An underpowered box that makes a better doorstop than a processor. I wouldn't wish that box on anybody!

My experience with the box was different from yours, and I actually liked how it sounded. Probably the major drawback I could see, has more to do with understanding how to configure it. It's not user friendly enough for the inexperienced type, but if you spend some time learning the interface, it can work wonders.

You're kidding, right? I've dealt with over 40 years of different broadcast audio processing equipment and the Ultradyne 9024 is just plain underpowered, plain and simple. I suppose if you're using the thing for a non-critical use it's fine, especially since it's designed to be a musician's toy instead of being a real processor. I've diddled with firmware re-write mods on some of the newer boxes and re-worked older analog boxes with compoment changes so I do know my way around audio and the 9024 is far from a serious contender. If it worked for you my only guess was that you were probably using it as a gentle processor as there isn't enough DSP power under the hood to keep up with anything resembling aggressive. The limiter was the biggest joke of all.

Nope, not kidding. It all depends on the entire design of the airchain. I have heard some LPFM stations use it as well.

I do agree the 9024's limiter is trash, and I didn't use it. But a decent multiband limiter after the 9024 can solve that problem.

What firmware version did your 9024 use?


R

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

The Orban 8300 won't do you wrong.

Good box for the price.

 

[RadioMan203]

I do agree the 9024's limiter is trash, and I didn't use it. But a decent multiband limiter after the 9024 can solve that problem.

With all due respect, it sounds like you're more air-talent than a broadcast engineer. A multiband limiter after the 9024? Why bother?!? If the end result is using the 9024 as a gain rider you could pick most any box from a 40 year old Audimax to a Compellor to Prisms to most anything in-between. Behringer equipment has no business being in a modern and professional broadcast plant.

What firmware version did your 9024 use?

From what I remember, it was the latest revision available due to the box already being out of production. I know the early version firmware had it's issues which is why I advised the station to upgrade the firmware since they were financially strapped for any sort of processor upgrade. But Robert, even with the firmware update the box is still garbo. I know after the dual Quantums they replaced the chain with a used Aphex 2020 with a compellor in front as it was something that fit their budget at that point in their development. It sounded 1000% better than the Behringer. Personally, I would be embarassed to even have a 9024 in an airchain in any of the stations I maintain. The stations I maintain have a 2020 MK III (which sounds ok, but you can't push that damn thing without it getting harsh) and an Optimod 6200. The Orban sounds better than the Aphex but both sound great given the formats. I have an older 2020 MKI that I use for exciter testing and as an emergency backup should somebody get tanked due to a lightning strike. I never got it upgraded since I doubted I would ever get a return on my investment if I tried to sell it.

 

[canucksfan71]

Agreed-not only is the 9024's limiter trash-the whole (%$#!) thing is trash.

Right now, until our station gets some extra $$$ for a decent hardware box, I am using an Aphex 204 exciter into a Behringer DSP1424P, into a PC loaded with and running John Burnill's Sonos III(this can send a composite MPX signal to the transmitter with a 192kHz soundcard) Seems to work ok if adjusted correctly.

The 1424P is an ok pre-processor if used lightly...works ok for an LPFM. We are using it to add a bit (a SMALL bit)of spatial depth.