Decoy Processing

[radiorob2.0]

This was mentioned in a post below but what have you used as decoy processing? Perhaps a working Gates Level Devil in a common area rack while the actual wall of sound multiband processing gear and other toys are hidden in another room.

 

[radiosaur]

I once used an internally toasted Optimod 8100 in the fishbowl engineering section (looked out over the lobby) as a decoy because I knew the competition had one and I wanted them to think they could sound as good as us without new gear. The unit was from a friend’s station in another state and only the meters and lights worked thanks to some jerryrigging in the back. Back in those days sales folks from other stations and ad agencies would routinely drop off spots at the front desk. Many years later I heard that little scheme worked just fine…the program director across the street drove the CE crazy insisting their 8100 wasn’t working right. Hee Hee Hee.

 

[Bengalsfan]

I've been asked to do the same thing. Had the retired 8100 in the rack room hooked up to the program line. To make it look real fancy, we hooked up some Prisims feeding it. The output was not hooked up. The "real" processor was tucked away at the transmitter site away from prying eyes....which is where I like them.

 

[satech]

Set up an old CRL component system. Lots of knobs, switches, and trimmers to adjust, as well as plenty of multi-colored blinkenlights.

But the bad thing is, these sound so sweet when adjusted properly, that it'd be shame to relegate a complete, working CRL setup to "decoy" duty.

 

[boiseengineer]

It's the "Ooooo, look at all the pretty lights" ruse.

Read & heard many stories of the dummy processor or EQ in the rack for the express use of a PD/GM/Sales Manager/Owner. Many moons ago there was a PD at KLO in Ogden who would spend hours tweaking a graphics EQ until it sounded just right on his car radio. Wasn’t hooked up but it kept him happy, busy, and out of the owner & Chief’s hair.

 

[Lou_S]

Then there was a certain Top 40 Powerhouse in Market #4 with the obligitory rackfull of processing gear in the studio, tweeked to within an inch of it's life on a regular and ongoing basis ... along with a "more/less" blend control hidden away in the rear of the rack. One side of the blend was the original unprocessed audio - the other was the output from the wall of sound - and you could select how much of either was sent to the final processing at the transmitter.

Most of the time the control was set well towards the unprocessed side.

 

[Fieldtech1]

I once visited a multi tenant site in a very competitive market where all the stations had their processing in cabinets closed under lock and key. One CE had even gone far enough as to put a few peices of that tamper evident packing tape on the doors of his in case another CE knew how to pick the lock. I love processing, to many it is truly an art.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

I love it when some PD or OM wants the processing set with the same numbers their buddy runs in another market. I always obliged. Then when it sounded like ass and they couldn't figure out why I brought up the little things like STL, automation compression, exciter, consoles, and the other variables to consider. Of course it remained the engineer's fault anyway.

 

[boiseengineer]

Digital v.s. analog STL, exciter, consoles, etc...
I'd love to say something here but I would get in trouble, again.
Corporate reads this forum.

 

[WNTIRadio]

With all of the HD delay and digital processing delay, it might be worth taking those CRL etc. decoys and at least using them to feed the studio monitors and talent headphones so they at least get an idea of what the final mix will sound like.

 

[stace]

A station here did this because everyone complained about the delay in the digital processing. An Aphex2020 used to processes the headphones for the announcer and Omnia 6 the air feed. Although they now use an Optimod 8500 so they wired in the headphone feed from the processor

 

[littlejohn]

Very few studios see actual air audio anymore - everything in the chain slows it down and the profanity dely makes it totally unusable for the jocks. And, if the station runs in HD, there's anopther 7-8 second coding delay to contend with. And actually, the coding delay can save you when the talent doesn't hit the DUMP button... kill the transmitter for fifteen seconds and he turn it back on.
We use the little Innovonics procesasors to derive a 'faux air' feed for the Talent. You don't have to limit it as much, but they can do better mixes and talkovers if their headphones have something close to what the air machine is doing.
As to hiding the processors, in this digital age, probably doesn't matter. They're so much more dependant on who set them han who made them, the maker's mark isn't the concern it used to be. Back when Glen was selling them pretty much 'door to door', we hid thePrisms. I've still got a pair at the house with 'magic marker' two digit serial numbers on them. They >did< make a difference and impriove the competitive edge at the time.

 

[cgould]

As to hiding the processors, in this digital age, probably doesn't matter. They're so much more dependant on who set them han who made them, the maker's mark isn't the concern it used to be. Back when Glen was selling them pretty much 'door to door', we hid thePrisms. I've still got a pair at the house with 'magic marker' two digit serial numbers on them. They >did< make a difference and impriove the competitive edge at the time.

Right. With respect to what we do, each Omnia preset has a number of changes "under the hood" associated with it. So to duplicate a particular station's sound, copying down the "dial settings" won't cut it. You'll need to know what preset they originally started with, and THEN make the "dial" changes. Otherwise you'll most likely end up sounding quite different than the station you're trying to copy....

-C

 

[nd2023]

Very few studios see actual air audio anymore - everything in the chain slows it down and the profanity dely makes it totally unusable for the jocks. And, if the station runs in HD, there's anopther 7-8 second coding delay to contend with. And actually, the coding delay can save you when the talent doesn't hit the DUMP button... kill the transmitter for fifteen seconds and he turn it back on.

The 2 people in the market with HD radios would hear the curse word since one of the HD sidebands is not delayed. Since mostly radio geeks listen to HD radio, an FCC complaint is less likely.

 

[littlejohn]

Uh, no. The coding delay is in the HD. The analog is delayed with a delay system so that when the receiver blends, there won't be a time offset.

And as Cornelius will tell you, duplicating the 'other guy' will simply make you a 'me, too' station. The best you can accomplish by copying is second - also known as First Loser.

 

[cgould]

And as Cornelius will tell you, duplicating the 'other guy' will simply make you a 'me, too' station. The best you can accomplish by copying is second - also known as First Loser.

You aren't going to get any corrections from me!

Some of the best stations / Programmers / Engineers I've worked with over the years are the ones who had a clear vision of their programming, and how they want their stations to sound on the dial.

No one wants to fall off the dial, so a certain amount of loudness matching is in order, but that too has to be kept in check.

The ones who want to sound like someone else or always match the loudness of some one else at all times typically spend the majority of their time spinning wheels as the 'competition' is usually very aware of what is going on. Sharp programmers will play mind games on lesser challengers by changing their sound daily to keep those unfocused programmers in town busy...and like clockwork they fall for the bait every time.

In many ways, at the end of the day, you have to give them something worth listening to, and the best audio processing advise is to come up with a sound that matches your brand of music format.

-C

 

[Rich883]

In the 80’s an associate of mine had a rack full of processing, back to back DAPs’, Inovonics multiband, Orban agc, all wired up, but the signal really only went to a simple eq, the 8100, and an early prototype of the CP803…. Loud and open, as the others added more boxes to match what he had they sounded smaller and smaller and smaller…..

Like the others noted with digital processing toda, hiding the box does not do too much for you.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

In the 80’s an associate of mine had a rack full of processing, back to back DAPs’, Inovonics multiband, Orban agc, all wired up, but the signal really only went to a simple eq, the 8100, and an early prototype of the CP803…. Loud and open, as the others added more boxes to match what he had they sounded smaller and smaller and smaller…..

Like the others noted with digital processing toda, hiding the box does not do too much for you.

Having been through many format changes I would be asked if we needed to include new processing, for instance, going from Oldies to Alternative already using a state of the art processor of the day (really not that long ago). I would answer not if you can trust me and give me a week. I don't believe anyone was ever disappointed after I had my week.

 

[Fenris]

We use a brand-new, top-of-the-line, all-digital Optimod 8600 as a decoy processor. The actual processing is done by an old single-band 8100. ;D

 

[richard.vanderveen]

We use a brand-new, top-of-the-line, all-digital Optimod 8600 as a decoy processor. The actual processing is done by an old single-band 8100. ;D

LOL!
And I bet the competition is tweaking their fingers blue!