Deeper Issues?

[TheBigA]

My only point on this thread is radio has changed. I think we may all agree with that.

We do. It's most obvious to those of us still doing it. But we also see it in the context of the fact that nothing stays the same and we've adapted to the changes in ways that didn't exist a generation ago.

I’m not sure why some insist this isn’t a trend because it most definitely is.

Nobody knows the trends better than those of us who are working amidst them.

 

[gr8oldies]

But once again, if you don't have an HD radio, how can you discover anything? You don't market a product that people can't find. It pisses them off. Then when the product is finally in the store, they've already moved on to streaming. Missed opportunity.

I had that Best Buy experience in Dayton, Ohio sometime in the 90s or early 00s. Went looking for HD radios and the clerk was: "Oh the satellite radios are over there". At that time Clear Channel was at least putting something on the HD2s and giving them some minimal on-air promotion. Mix 107.7 had contemporary Christian, touting crossover hits that had made the playlist at the main Mix. WTUE had a live and longer/deep cut companion to its Classic Rock format. Still, no traction and those HD channels are the "basis" of the Casey Kasem channel and the Smooth Jazz channel. (and, I tell people on Facebook nobody at Mix 107.7 knows why the Classic AT40 channel runs the same handful of episodes.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

My only point on this thread is radio has changed. I think we may all agree with that. In the mid and late 70’s most radio stations had local content and local announcers 24/7.

In the 1970s, the FM station where I started my career was only on the air 6am to 10pm. It wasn't until they joined an SMN format in the mid 80s that they stayed on all night. By the time I worked there, all the music programming originated from SMN (and eventually ABC Radio. Some public affairs type stuff and sports were broadcast locally.

Most of the other places I've worked weren't even licensed in the 70s.

 

[gr8oldies]

In the 1970s, the FM station where I started my career was only on the air 6am to 10pm. It wasn't until they joined an SMN format in the mid 80s that they stayed on all night. By the time I worked there, all the music programming originated from SMN (and eventually ABC Radio. Some public affairs type stuff and sports were broadcast locally.

Most of the other places I've worked weren't even licensed in the 70s.

Most small market stations signed off anywhere from 10pm to 1am. A lot of them may have been AM (often daytimer) with an automated FM. Someone was there, but not jocking in a traditional way.

 

[boombox4]

Not only that, but the last several cars that I have had, have had plastic bumpers. You put a sticker on that, it AIN'T coming off. Paper stickers are the exception, but they wear out and fade rather quickly.

Or it will rip the paint. I'm sure a lot of car owners aren't into that idea, especially when so many cars are leased, and up until recently, they'd trade them in within 5 years or so.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

My only point on this thread is radio has changed. I think we may all agree with that. In the mid and late 70’s most radio stations had local content and local announcers 24/7. This is not what we have today. Even the biggest markets run syndicated programming. Local radio is a lost cause. Yes, there are a few markets where local radio exists, but it is not the norm. I’m not sure why some insist this isn’t a trend because it most definitely is.

Well according to some folks, nothing has changed in the last 40-60 years! Small market stations are almost all owned by mom and pop operators, the airwaves in small towns are filled with local talent, and the kids today? They all listen to the radio just as much as kids ever did, and a lot of them are just dying for a career in broadcasting!

As to why folks insist everything is just fine? I understand the sentiment. You put your entire working life into an industry, and - depending on where you are in the hierarchy - you wanna defend that industry. You read corporate press releases about their latest moves and it's all about "creating synergy" and "maximizing our great properties to deliver content" or hilariously insisting that they'll be "live and local!" They're all invested in keeping the (greatly reduced) money flowing in, so of course they're going to insist that nothing is wrong.

That's part of the larger (or deeper, if you like) issue. People who insist that radio as a business is chugging along just fine, the audiences aren't shrinking, the revenues aren't shrinking, and your average person isn't abandoning radio for streaming nearly as much as you'd think. So they look at medium or large market station that used to have a full-time staff whittle it down to just one guy in the morning and tracking/syndication the rest of the day and say "things haven't changed much since the 70s!" or that "live and local" is still a thing because there's a local person tracking all four midday shows for the cluster.

It reminds me a little bit of the auto industry. I grew up in the Detroit area, where an enormous number of jobs were tied to the "big 3." Everyone you knew had a family member who worked in some capacity in the auto industry. When the Japanese began exporting smaller, cheaper, and better quality cars, they didn't sell very well at all in Detroit. In fact there were radio stations who sponsored "smash the Japanese car" events where you could pay a buck to swing a sledge hammer at a Datsun. It took the auto industry a long time to adapt, in part because the executives were driving around Detroit, seeing nothing but Ford, Chrysler, and GM products on the road and saying "we're doing great! We don't need to change!"

They did eventually adapt and survive, but lost massive amounts of market share in the process, went bankrupt (Ford excepted), had to shut down many brands, ask for huge government bailouts, and of course a lot of people lost their jobs. Will the radio industry wake up, adapt, and survive? It remains to be seen, but if the mind-set of people still inside doesn't change...?

 

[TheBigA]

Will the radio industry wake up, adapt, and survive? It remains to be seen, but if the mind-set of people still inside doesn't change...?

As I said, the reason I'm still working in radio is because I adapted to the changes in the business. Those who didn't were let go. The business is adapting, because it has to. People want podcasts, so radio stations do podcasts. People want to hear radio on demand rather in real time. So that change is made. Every time radio changes to the marketplace, we see a bunch of old timers complain that it's not the same as it used to be. They're right. Nothing is the same as it used to be.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

Every time radio changes to the marketplace, we see a bunch of old timers complain that it's not the same as it used to be. They're right. Nothing is the same as it used to be.

Just up the thread, there's someone insisting that things are in fact the same. That small market radio is still alive, live, local, and other aspects of the business are the same as they were in the 70s.

Oh, and the proper term is not "old timers." It's people who have "aged out of the demo" or "just don't fit the 'sound' of the radio station anymore."

I'm arguing that radio simply didn't change fast enough. Around 15 years ago I was sitting around with some co-workers at happy hour discussing the future of the business. We all agreed that our websites sucked, and the digital sales manager was complaining that he felt like an unwanted stepchild. My opinion was that instead of the online presence being an afterthought, we needed a "digital program director" whose only job was to manage the virtual side. We had an air staff for the OTA side, along with a promotions staff, a marketing director, and a full sales team. Digital? It was one guy selling and basically nobody watching the store.

Finally, a couple years ago they got around to naming a Digital Program Director. Was that his only job? No. He was the APD/MD/Midday person for one of the stations, and then was put in charge of the entire digital presence for every station in the cluster. Oh, and the guy who was actually creating all the video content? He got laid off and all that work got dropped onto the new Digital PD. Last year that Digital PD/APD/MD/Midday talent was laid off, replaced by a VT jock from elsewhere, and his other duties were distributed among other already overworked people. Again, nobody minding the store.

Now you might say "well, the reality is that people have to wear a lot of hats nowadays," and that's true...because that's the reality that the industry created for itself. Rather than put resources into the product, it's cut, cut, cut, and hand out hats to anyone left in the building. Rather than proactively adapt, it's adapt because you have no other choice, and do it on the cheap.

Meanwhile the corporate office is putting out press releases breathlessly talking about "creating new synergies" and "maximizing the potential of our content creators." Radio is not "changing to the marketplace" so much as it is desperately trying to remain relevant in the marketplace.

 

[TheBigA]

Just up the thread, there's someone insisting that things are in fact the same. That small market radio is still alive, live, local, and other aspects of the business are the same as they were in the 70s.

Correct, because radio is not one thing. Depends on which small markets you're talking about, and which radio stations. So it's hard to generalize and say all local talent are gone and small market radio is dead. I've seen posts here from small market owners who say they're keeping radio alive where they are. Good for them.

Now you might say "well, the reality is that people have to wear a lot of hats nowadays," and that's true...because that's the reality that the industry created for itself. Rather than put resources into the product, it's cut, cut, cut, and hand out hats to anyone left in the building. Rather than proactively adapt, it's adapt because you have no other choice, and do it on the cheap.

No other choice? Quit! You can always quit. No one forces anyone to do more with less. It's a choice they make. As for companies not investing resources in the product, that's not what I see. I see talent get raises every year. I see new gear being bought. I see new shows being launched. The investment is happening. What would you like them to do?

Meanwhile the corporate office is putting out press releases breathlessly talking about "creating new synergies" and "maximizing the potential of our content creators." Radio is not "changing to the marketplace" so much as it is desperately trying to remain relevant in the marketplace.

Whatever. It was a lot easier when radio was the only game in town and there was no competition. That's not how it is any more. Anyone and everyone is doing some form of radio. Artists are now hosting radio shows. As if they don't make enough money already. I see people complain that there aren't new jobs in radio, but it depends on what you mean by radio. If you just look at the radio attached to towers, it's not growing. But look at the radio being done by Spotify, Sirius, Pandora, and all the other online groups, it's exploding. They're all hiring! If you want a job, look at Apple Radio. You don't have to move. Just make radio in your spare bedroom, upload it to the server, and you're done! You can complain about how bad things are, or look for opportunity. I prefer the latter. It's why I'm still working, and other people aren't.

 

[gr8oldies]

Correct, because radio is not one thing. Depends on which small markets you're talking about, and which radio stations. So it's hard to generalize and say all local talent are gone and small market radio is dead. I've seen posts here from small market owners who say they're keeping radio alive where they are. Good for them.



No other choice? Quit! You can always quit. No one forces anyone to do more with less. It's a choice they make. As for companies not investing resources in the product, that's not what I see. I see talent get raises every year. I see new gear being bought. I see new shows being launched. The investment is happening. What would you like them to do?



Whatever. It was a lot easier when radio was the only game in town and there was no competition. That's not how it is any more. Anyone and everyone is doing some form of radio. Artists are now hosting radio shows. As if they don't make enough money already. I see people complain that there aren't new jobs in radio, but it depends on what you mean by radio. If you just look at the radio attached to towers, it's not growing. But look at the radio being done by Spotify, Sirius, Pandora, and all the other online groups, it's exploding. They're all hiring! If you want a job, look at Apple Radio. You don't have to move. Just make radio in your spare bedroom, upload it to the server, and you're done! You can complain about how bad things are, or look for opportunity. I prefer the latter. It's why I'm still working, and other people aren't.

Nobody's going to play the hits on the all-night show in Fargo anymore. It's starting a podcast, joining an improv group, doing production from home. There are folks brokering sports talk shows in my town and selling spots. I would dare to bet that when it's all said and done, all of the iHeart cuts in local markets and the jobs added at the hub in Nashville, the head count will probably come out in the wash

 

[TheBigA]

Nobody's going to play the hits on the all-night show in Fargo anymore.

I thought it was interesting to see how radio stations used to put their top talent at night. I was reading about a station in Pittsburgh that lured Jack Armstrong away from another market, and had him do 7 to midnight. That was once prime time on the radio. When Alan Freed left Cleveland for NYC, they put him on at night. Then TV became more competitive, and people starting do more at night. They don't listen to all night radio any more. It's not because of radio, its because people have other things to do. Today, prime time is morning drive. If you're not doing morning drive, nobody cares.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

Whatever. It was a lot easier when radio was the only game in town and there was no competition. That's not how it is any more. Anyone and everyone is doing some form of radio. Artists are now hosting radio shows. As if they don't make enough money already. I see people complain that there aren't new jobs in radio, but it depends on what you mean by radio. If you just look at the radio attached to towers, it's not growing. But look at the radio being done by Spotify, Sirius, Pandora, and all the other online groups, it's exploding. They're all hiring! If you want a job, look at Apple Radio. You don't have to move. Just make radio in your spare bedroom, upload it to the server, and you're done! You can complain about how bad things are, or look for opportunity. I prefer the latter. It's why I'm still working, and other people aren't.

I said in a response to another poster that I understand this mentality. I get it. You're invested. You think the industry is fine, doing the right things, and that the layoffs - sorry - "reductions in force" that are coming in a month or so at iHeart or Audacy are actually another positive development.

What I'm doing is not so much complaining about "how bad things are," but looking at it from the outside and saying "y'all still don't get it, do you?" Oh, and I'm working. Not in radio, but in an industry that's looking five and ten years into the future and planning for that future rather than reacting to changes that have already happened.

 

[TheBigA]

I said in a response to another poster that I understand this mentality. I get it. You're invested. You think the industry is fine, doing the right things, and that the layoffs - sorry - "reductions in force" that are coming in a month or so at iHeart or Audacy are actually another positive development.

That's not my world at all. I'm invested because I invested in myself and my business.

Not in radio, but in an industry that's looking five and ten years into the future and planning for that future rather than reacting to changes that have already happened.

Absolutely, and that applies to people who work in radio. Don't expect your boss or company to plan your career. If you don't plan for your own personal future, if you just go through the motions, you have only yourself to blame when the ax falls. I don't live in that world. I always sought out new projects, new endeavors, new things I could do, and that's why I'm still in the business. I invested in myself, and as a result, I'm in high demand and I only do what I want.

 

[Kelly A]

Nobody's going to play the hits on the all-night show in Fargo anymore.

That's because radio's bread and butter; advertisers, no longer wanted to spend ad dollars on anything later than 10PM. As time marched on, those and other ad dollars went to on-line and social media. Whether Fargo, Fayetteville, or Fresno, no station wants to pay someone to be on the air live in overnights when there is a near zero chance of revenue from those time-slots.

It's starting a podcast, joining an improv group, doing production from home.

For right or wrong, a lot of Gen Z see success in the entertainment industry as measured by how many subscribers your channel has. Bill Maher had an interesting take on just that subject recently. Caution, contains what can be considered foul language:

 

[TheBigA]

For right or wrong, a lot of Gen Z see success in the entertainment industry as measured by how many subscribers your channel has.

Exactly. That's how you get paid. If you create content on your own YouTube channel, and have a million subscribers, and your videos go viral, you're making good money. Google ads make money. You don't need a day job.

This is why radio companies keep talking about digital. No limit to what you can make, and no Nielsen ratings to deal with.

 

[davideduardo]

Well according to some folks, nothing has changed in the last 40-60 years! Small market stations are almost all owned by mom and pop operators, the airwaves in small towns are filled with local talent, and the kids today? They all listen to the radio just as much as kids ever did, and a lot of them are just dying for a career in broadcasting!

You are oversimplifying everything to prove your own conclusion.

The forced development of FM starting in the late 60's increased the viable competitive stations in each market by as much as 200%. No revenue increase was to be had, and the ad revenue as well as shares fragmented.

Stations had to cut costs. FCC changes in technical requirements allowed fewer engineers. Cart machines and early automation reduced on-air and production costs by cutting staff. And automated formats let stations focus on sales while they got major market radio programming in exchange for a few spots an hour.

So those small market stations that were marginal to begin with opted for outside programming and tried to automate traffic, billing and other internal functions.

Docket 80-90 around 1990 allowed moves, upgrades and many, many new FMs. Some markets that had one or two profitable stations suddenly had five or six unprofitable ones.

The 2008 recession cut radio revenue by about a third. But stations could economize by doing more shared things thanks to the Internet. Traffic was consoilidated by group owners, and often o was accounting and production.

The pandemic cut it by a third again. We've already cut nearly as much as we could due to technology. Now we have many stations losing money because there is no revenue to be had.

This is a vastly more complex issue than the way teens listen to music. This is about fundamental changes in the underlying economics of radio, the ad industry and the overall economy.

Oh, and when the FCC decided to allow consolidation, a great deal had to do with studies that showed that over half of all US radio stations were not profitable. That was long before streaming, smart phones, satellite radio and podcasts.

 

[davideduardo]

That's because radio's bread and butter; advertisers, no longer wanted to spend ad dollars on anything later than 10PM.

With very few exceptions, late night and overnight radio never made money for the majority of stations, even going back to the 60's.

Yes, there were a few like KOMA that got tour and movie biz for much of the Great Plains at night, but for every KOMA there were hundreds of smaller stations that could not make a dime after 8 PM or so.

This is nothing new. In the 80's I handled sales management for a Top 15 market station that had double the shares of the next station and got the same numbers in overnights. We did all kinds of special promotions and packages for all-night ads, and focused on areas like trade schools and the like. We always spent more trying than what we ever billed, and finally just gave up.

As time marched on, those and other ad dollars went to on-line and social media. Whether Fargo, Fayetteville, or Fresno, no station wants to pay someone to be on the air live in overnights when there is a near zero chance of revenue from those time-slots.

And that was true decades before the Internet came on the scene.

 

[TheBigA]

Oh, and when the FCC decided to allow consolidation, a great deal had to do with studies that showed that over half of all US radio stations were not profitable. That was long before streaming, smart phones, satellite radio and podcasts.

The funny thing is critics were so angry about the number of radio stations Clear Channel owned. But today, they have thousands of stations on their streaming platform. There are no ownership rules for streaming radio. Own as many as you want. No ownership limits on websites. Start as many as you want. No ownership limits on podcasts. Start as many as you want. People don't understand why radio companies are investing in digital. The answer is simple: No limits.

 

[Kelly A]

This is a vastly more complex issue than the way teens listen to music. This is about fundamental changes in the underlying economics of radio, the ad industry and the overall economy.

Spot on statement. The whole premise that if only radio could keep teens listening, then everything would be the same as it was in the 1960's, is a cop out argument. It doesn't take into account how consumers and their technology have changed. When technology changes, allowing for a device which amounts to a handheld supercomputer that can store hundreds of hours of audio, video, games, internal camera and video recorder, how does a traditional industry compete? Play more hits? Have on air talent swear more and talk about sexual topics?
It's like saying horse and buggies were fine for transportation, and if the buggy industry would have just done a better job keeping up with Henry Ford, they wouldn't have been replaced by the automobile.

Oh, and when the FCC decided to allow consolidation, a great deal had to do with studies that showed that over half of all US radio stations were not profitable. That was long before streaming, smart phones, satellite radio and podcasts.

Yep, 1996 to be exact.

 

[TheBigA]

When technology changes, allowing for a device which amounts to a handheld supercomputer that can store hundreds of hours of audio, video, games, internal camera and video recorder, how does a traditional industry compete? Play more hits?

People talk about declining TSL, but the fact is that TSL for radio has been declining since the 80s. Once people had other devices to play with, from Walkmen to Gameboys, they listened less to radio. This is not a new problem. The only real solutions are diversify, and budget for declining TSL. Because there's nothing you can do to get people to throw away their other devices.

For example, right now I'm watching football on TV. That means I'm not listening to the radio. There's no local DJ or hit music that is going to get me to shut off the TV. That's simply a reality radio has to deal with.