Detroit Radio Ratings: January 2023

[pjc1961]

Covering the survey period from Thu. 1/5/2023 thru Wed. 2/1/2023, age 6+ overall:

Detroit

Nielsen Audio PPM Monthly Ratings Detroit (Market #14) Population: 3,881,600 Black: 842,800 – Hispanic: 203,300 Average Quarter Hour Share for Persons 6+, Mon-Sun 6AM-Mid All ratings are Copyright © 2005-2024 The Nielsen Company. All rights reserved. Nielsen radio audience estimates and data are...

radioinsight.com

Top 5+ demo rankings analysis for ages 25-54, 18-34 + 18-49 -
(scroll down to see Detroit market):

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25-54: 1. WRIF 2. WNIC 3. WXYT-FM 4. WKQI 5. WYCD (up from #7T) 6. WCSX (up from #9T) 7. WJLB (down from #4)
18-34: 1. WKQI (up from #4) 2. WRIF 3. WNIC 4. WCSX 5. WXYT-FM 6. WMGC
18-49: 1. WRIF 2. WKQI (up from #5T) 3T. WNIC 3T. WXYT-FM 5. WCSX 6T. WJLB 6T. WYCD 8. WMGC (down from #5T)

 

[CassChopper96]

WJLB outside of the top 5 in 18-34 wow

 

[MarkW]

Bear in mind 97.1 The Ticket pulls big streaming numbers, but those aren't lumped in with the FM signal for purposes of Nielsen reporting. If streaming and FM were combined, I suspect WXYT-FM would rival if not lead WRIF for A25-54.

New Country 93.1 is a ratings disaster. Whenever the station builds some momentum, the air seems to escape the balloon quickly.

 

[davideduardo]

WJLB outside of the top 5 in 18-34 wow

Not unexpected as rhythmic CHRs and Hip Hop/R&B stations are week nearly everywhere due to the unplayable songs due to lyrics.

 

[MarkW]

WJLB frequently finished in the top 5 in Adults 25-54 and the 18-34 demo in 2022. They have nothing to worry about so long as they make no unforced errors programming wise. They are one of the best performing major market contemporary hip-hip and R&B out there. They've also long been a formidable biller, even if they don't rank quite as high on that scale as they once did (they still outbill the likes of WCSX, WDVD, WDMK and WMGC by a wide margin and probably bill about the same as WKQI and WMXD).

Hot 107.5 on the other hand is a hot mess. The station sometimes cracks the top 5 in 18-34 but not often. They've long underbilled the rest of the market by a longshot, they receive little to zero agency business, and their audio settings sound awful. They've softened their music considerably in the past year or two - the station used to play almost nothing but hardcore hip-hop - but the changes have had zero effect on WJLB, WMGC, etc.

Speaking of WMGC, it would not surprise me if they've lost some share in key demos to WKQI, who is playing a lot of throwback party jam type songs from the 2000s and even 90s these days. A review of WKQI's music log reveals 2Pac, 50 Cent, Dr. Dre, old Kanye West, Nelly, Ginuwine and more. It's as if 95.5 has become a CHR / Rhythm Throwbacks hybrid, although I will say current and recurrent CHR hits still comprise the vast majority of spins.

 

[CassChopper96]

You can listen to WKQI and tell that it is crafted exclusively for detroit

 

[CLTRadio]

Not unexpected as rhythmic CHRs and Hip Hop/R&B stations are week nearly everywhere due to the unplayable songs due to lyrics.

Urban Contemporary stations have had to censor songs since the 90s. It's nothing new, and has nothing to do with UC's decline. The younger demographics are listening to the radio less often, and some stations have adjusted to this, while others haven't. Teens aren't the driver that they once were. WPEG here in Charlotte is frequently #1 18-34.

 

[davideduardo]

Urban Contemporary stations have had to censor songs since the 90s. It's nothing new, and has nothing to do with UC's decline.

It's the number of songs, combined with the fact that in the 90's you could not hear the "forbidden" songs on streams while (mostly since the advent and popularization of the smartphone) you can get those songs easily.

The younger demographics are listening to the radio less often, and some stations have adjusted to this, while others haven't. Teens aren't the driver that they once were. WPEG here in Charlotte is frequently #1 18-34.

Teens have not been a programming driver for decades, ever since the pimple cream accounts dried up.

And look at WPEG's rating... not the share. It is off about 60% in 18-34 compared to when PPM began in the market.

 

[CLTRadio]

It's the number of songs, combined with the fact that in the 90's you could not hear the "forbidden" songs on streams while (mostly since the advent and popularization of the smartphone) you can get those songs easily.

Teens have not been a programming driver for decades, ever since the pimple cream accounts dried up.

And look at WPEG's rating... not the share. It is off about 60% in 18-34 compared to when PPM began in the market.

If your theory was correct, only urban contemporary would be seeing declines. That's not the case. Rating points have been declining across the board for some time, most dramatically in the younger demographics. It's not unique to any one format. People have a lot of options nowadays for music consumption, and radio's "share" has been consistently trending down.

 

[davideduardo]

If your theory was correct, only urban contemporary would be seeing declines. That's not the case. Rating points have been declining across the board for some time, most dramatically in the younger demographics. It's not unique to any one format. People have a lot of options nowadays for music consumption, and radio's "share" has been consistently trending down.

As someone with access to the actual rating data and not just shares going back to the mid-90's, I can say that the greatest deterioration has been in current based Urban, Churban and CHR formats.

While some things have to do with music trends, the number of real hits, and other social factors, it is still clear that the inability of regulated, terrestrial radio to play the "real" versions of many hits became a factor in younger demos as the smartphone (and portable devices like iPads) became prevalent.

As a sidebar, the big decline in ratings points in the "Top 50" markets was caused by the PPM, not actual changes in listening. The precise, minute by minute measurement system of the meter showed actual radio listening per person to be much lower, so markets declined from around and 18 PUR rating to something in the 10 to 12 hour range. Bingo! In one fell swoop, radio lost around 40% of its persons using radio rating.

So, please, let's not blame streaming for all of the decline in radio listening. In fact, the PPM did more to make reality out of what was a diary-based chimera than all the king's ISPs and all the kings streams.

 

[DOB]

Not unexpected as rhythmic CHRs and Hip Hop/R&B stations are week nearly everywhere due to the unplayable songs due to lyrics.

The songs are playable as they always have been, they just need to play edited versions.

Hip hop today is nowhere close to as vulgar or filled with words radio must edit or cut, as it was 20 years ago when hip hop radio played the extremely edited versions of the current hits and people accepted that radio had to play edited versions.

Streaming has taken it's toll on current based formats that target younger demographics and there doesn't seem to be a problem with streaming services that adhere to offerings that are those edited radio versions.

Btw, happy to return the favor David. You don't know where you are at if you don't know where you have been.
The vast amount of knowledge I have obtained from you on radio history is priceless, thank you.

 

[davideduardo]

The songs are playable as they always have been, they just need to play edited versions.

The audience that wants to hear those songs does not want to hear edits. They already know what is real, and edits are fake.

Hip hop today is nowhere close to as vulgar or filled with words radio must edit or cut, as it was 20 years ago when hip hop radio played the extremely edited versions of the current hits and people accepted that radio had to play edited versions.

20 years ago we had no smartphones, not iPads, no streaming services. We could download audio via later closed MP3 sites like Napster or load our Apple device with songs from iTunes. And satellite radio was brand new 20 years ago and had few subscribers and was limited to new cars for the most part.

There was, in other words, no easy and portable listening device that was as easy as today's streaming offerings.

Streaming has taken it's toll on current based formats that target younger demographics and there doesn't seem to be a problem with streaming services that adhere to offerings that are those edited radio versions.

But those services use edited versions by choice, not by regulation. If you want to hear the originals, you can find them via streaming but never over the regulated airwaves.

Btw, happy to return the favor David. You don't know where you are at if you don't know where you have been.
The vast amount of knowledge I have obtained from you on radio history is priceless, thank you.

Much appreciated. And your perspectives bring about worthy discussions. Thanks for some very good posts.

 

[CLTRadio]

As someone with access to the actual rating data and not just shares going back to the mid-90's, I can say that the greatest deterioration has been in current based Urban, Churban and CHR formats.

While some things have to do with music trends, the number of real hits, and other social factors, it is still clear that the inability of regulated, terrestrial radio to play the "real" versions of many hits became a factor in younger demos as the smartphone (and portable devices like iPads) became prevalent.

As a sidebar, the big decline in ratings points in the "Top 50" markets was caused by the PPM, not actual changes in listening. The precise, minute by minute measurement system of the meter showed actual radio listening per person to be much lower, so markets declined from around and 18 PUR rating to something in the 10 to 12 hour range. Bingo! In one fell swoop, radio lost around 40% of its persons using radio rating.

So, please, let's not blame streaming for all of the decline in radio listening. In fact, the PPM did more to make reality out of what was a diary-based chimera than all the king's ISPs and all the kings streams.

At the end of the day you haven't proven your point. What research or data can you point to that backs up your argument that song lyrics are a factor in declining radio listenership? You're speculating, and your assumptions are incorrect.

 

[gr8oldies]

A PD in Canada tried to go with very quick edits of songs, basically the meat not the filler (as in instrumental bridges, overlong intros), so the songs were around 2 1/2 minutes. Verse chorus, verse, chorus, end. The CRTC had an issue because he was cutting Canadian songs, and that was a no-no.....even though he wasn't cutting Canadian songs shorter than U.S./British/wherever. Still a no-go

 

[CassChopper96]

Is CHR top 40 radio in serious trouble for the future

 

[Antruiz]

So, please, let's not blame streaming for all of the decline in radio listening.

He really said that. lol.

 

[CLTRadio]

He really said that. lol.

He did. LOL. Even Nielsen agrees that streaming is taking share from radio, especially in the younger demos. Granted that isn’t the only factor, but it is a factor.

He still hasn’t provided anything to back up his conspiracy theory that hip hop lyrics are driving declines in urban radio.

 

[davideduardo]

At the end of the day you haven't proven your point. What research or data can you point to that backs up your argument that song lyrics are a factor in declining radio listenership? You're speculating, and your assumptions are incorrect.

I am analyzing based on a lot of experience researching actual listeners in formats that play or did play Urban, hip´hop, CHR type formats. In one-on-ones and focus groups, we started seeing listeners make comments about "radio does not play the right songs" or "they play dud versions of songs" and the like going back to the first years of the new Millennium and increased as more and more streaming alternatives showed listeners the difference.

Since the advent of smartphones and the creation of more and easily accessible streams, this has turned into "radio does not play the real hits". We saw this more with urban and churban leaning stations than straight traditional top 40, but in all current based formats of that kind, it's the among the top 3 reasons for going away from radio to streaming; those reasons are "no commercials", "no stupid DJs", and "missing songs / cut down songs".

Over those years, we did over a thousand music tests and hundreds and hundreds of perceptuals in all kinds of formats, ranging from Regional Mexican to Hip Hop to AOR/Classic Rock to Classic Hits to CHR to Country, both in-house and for other owners.

Of course, the fourth reason mentioned is "it's not as easy to get those stations via streams on my iPhone/Galaxy/etc. as it is to use (insert name of one of the big streamers)".

And... you are ignoring my point that the bulk of listening decline in the top 50 markets in the last 20 years is due to the introduction of the PPM, which, alone, caused PUR (Persons Using Radio) to decline by over 30% in the 2008-2010 period as each market was rolled out.

There are other factors, too. In the 90's we saw aggregate declines in youth formats in the 10% to 15% range, and that was due, based on research, to the huge growth in video games in that decade.

 

[CLTRadio]

I am analyzing based on a lot of experience researching actual listeners in formats that play or did play Urban, hip´hop, CHR type formats. In one-on-ones and focus groups, we started seeing listeners make comments about "radio does not play the right songs" or "they play dud versions of songs" and the like going back to the first years of the new Millennium and increased as more and more streaming alternatives showed listeners the difference.

Since the advent of smartphones and the creation of more and easily accessible streams, this has turned into "radio does not play the real hits". We saw this more with urban and churban leaning stations than straight traditional top 40, but in all current based formats of that kind, it's the among the top 3 reasons for going away from radio to streaming; those reasons are "no commercials", "no stupid DJs", and "missing songs / cut down songs".

Over those years, we did over a thousand music tests and hundreds and hundreds of perceptuals in all kinds of formats, ranging from Regional Mexican to Hip Hop to AOR/Classic Rock to Classic Hits to CHR to Country, both in-house and for other owners.

Of course, the fourth reason mentioned is "it's not as easy to get those stations via streams on my iPhone/Galaxy/etc. as it is to use (insert name of one of the big streamers)".

And... you are ignoring my point that the bulk of listening decline in the top 50 markets in the last 20 years is due to the introduction of the PPM, which, alone, caused PUR (Persons Using Radio) to decline by over 30% in the 2008-2010 period as each market was rolled out.

There are other factors, too. In the 90's we saw aggregate declines in youth formats in the 10% to 15% range, and that was due, based on research, to the huge growth in video games in that decade.

You said all that, and didn't mention hip hop lyrics one time. Playing the wrong songs or wrong version of songs doesn't translate to hip hop lyrics are causing a decline in urban radio. You're jumping to conclusions, and your assumptions are wrong. If a radio station is not playing the music that their listeners want, that's a programming issue, and the focus should be on researching better music that the audience will actually like.

For the record, I was born in 1989. I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s. I'm in every major demo. I'm not on the outside looking in. I am a P1 urban listener. I'm not an old guy who has to study what millennials want.

Again, radio listening continues to decline in PPM markets. It didn't bottom out in 2008 to 2010. It continues to decline in PPM and every other type of market.

 

[Antruiz]

It's not complicated. If I want to hear Foreigner, I can say, "Alexa, play Foreigner." I don't need to sit through 20 minutes of commercials, the weather (sponsored), the traffic (sponsored), and the top of the hour ID (you guessed it, sponsored) - to hear it.

The bottom line, no matter how much older people who grew up with it insist it isn't happening, the internet has killed it - and it's less and less relevant by the minute. It's just not hard to figure that out.

Furthermore, radio hasn't done ONE thing to up it's game. It's doing the same old thing it's done since the 80's. EXACTLY the same thing. People are bored to tears with it.