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Detroit's Bizarro Ratings

G

Gregg

All those years that stations like WJR and WJLB were at the top of the ratings apparently were flukes. Now that Detroit has People Meters, the ratings of the diary era appear completely wrong. We now know:

1) Detroit is a Country Music market. Who would have ever thought that WYCD would be the #1 station in Detroit? All those years WWWW was a mid-level country station, or when WYCD chased them out of the format, who could ever have predicted WYCD would someday be #1? (Remember when those call letters refered to Young Country Detroit, contrasting with WWWW's older-skewing format?)

2) Detroit radio listeners would rather hear Sports (WXYT-FM) or All-News (WWJ) than Talk (WJR). WJR is now the third-ranked non-music station. So why is Sports Talk so hot? The Pistons and Red Wings aren't doing so well as to drive casual sports fans to WXYT. The Super Bowl had nothing to do with The Lions. OK, maybe winter weather increases listenership for All-News WWJ. But shouldn't WJR also share some of that snowstorm listenership too? And why is WXYT-FM #2 while sports rival WDFN is only #26? Is being on FM really that much of an advantage?

3) Detroit is not much of an Urban market. That's the biggest surprise of all. During diary days, WJLB and WMXD would vie with WJR in the top 3. Usually a couple of other stations aimed at the African-American community and Smooth Jazz WVMV, with a sizable black audience, would all be in the top 10. Now WJLB is tied for #6, WMXD is #10 and WVMV is #11 as a Top 40 station, no longer playing Smooth Jazz.

4) Detroit is not much of a Rock market. WRIF is #9. When was the last time they were ranked so low? WCSX, one of the forerunners of the Classic Rock format, is #17. Where did the rock listeners go?

5) What happened to WNIC? After being a Giant #1 during the holidays with its all-Chrstmas format, WNIC and fellow Soft AC WMGC are tied for #12. When was the last time WNIC was ranked so low? Meanwhile WDVD, a low-ranked Hot AC station during diary days, is now consistantly in the Top 3.

Makes you wonder, were the diary numbers so wrong? Or do People Meters also have their own inaccuracies?


Gregg
[email protected]
 
I enjoyed reading your post but the Detroit PPM results seem more typical than bizarro to me.

I don't think it's fair to say Detroit is a country market and not an urban market. Even if urban is down from the diary (which it is everywhere) if you add the shares together urban is still the more popular format. Part of the reason WYCD is #1 is they are format exclusive and don't have to fragment the audience witha direct competitor. Not to take anything away from them, being #1 is impressive. I believe Detroit is the only major market where country is currently #1 12+.

Regarding WNIC I seem to recall them always taking a big hit after Christmas every year long before PPM. Of course this is not unique to Detroit..It happens everywhere..although Chicago and Detrot seem to be the two markets with the largest rank decline each year. I also wouldn't call either WNIC and WMGC soft AC, it's rare to find truly soft ACs anywhere these days. WNIC has the variety position most common in AC while WMGC seems a little brighter, If one of these two did go soft AC I think they would have a clear and consistent lead over the harder competitor (which would be poorly positoned between WDVD and the soft AC) ...but the demos would be older so it won't happen. Speaking of WDVD, once again it's not unique to Detroit..Hot AC does better in PPM than diary.
 
12+ ratings are merely a beauty contest... please don't look too deeply into them.

WJR is in decline more due to the copy. Yes, they still have Paul W., Frank and Mitch... but it's not as powerful a lineup as in the past. Plus they've cut back on local news output and brokered out a good deal of the weekend lineup. The imaging also needs updating (while I too like the "Super-station 760" jingle package... it's what? 15 years old?)... I believe they can freshen up their image without needing to be completely aggressive and in-your-face.

I'm also not sure clearing Sean live in afternoon drive on a station like WJR is THAT necessary. But that's just me.
 
I think lamenting about a station being a "loser" if it's only ranking #12 in the 12+ numbers for one month is a bit of a stretch in a market with more than 50 signals. And Detroit ain't Dixie, despite what certain suburbs are like, so ultra right wing spew really doesn't cut it for all but the 'chosen few' in a market like Detroit. WJR's decision to go to ultra-conservative syndicated fare made it lose its distinctiveness, and convinced people who were migrating away from AM anyway, that it no longer was the station that reflected the world they lived in.

It's the only station my parents listened to "back in the day," and it was supposed to be the kind of station that as we get older and want more information and convivial personalities and conversation, the next generation would make it their own, too. Glad it apparently still does some local news on the hour, but apart from having a massive signal in a region where AMs tend to be highly directional or low power, what's there to make it a primary station to "default" to?

If commercial radio moghuls could learn to program more than five or six formats, and not fret if they're only "#12" in a large market, then I think there might be some excitement over what stations have to offer -- at least among the difference slices of the population (not just age and gender) that the programming is aimed at. Otherwise, no matter what city you're in, it's all turned into the aural equivalent of fast food row with the same minor variations on fried beef and potatoes, and stuff that if you consume enough of it will end up killing you. Yet, instead of a hamburger and fries, some of us born and bred in the Great Lake would rather have perch and cole slaw.
 
There was a movement way back in the early 70's with WDEE to be a country station in Detroit and they did a very good job of it. There has always been a market in Detroit for a country station with all the folks from the south that moved north to work in the auto plants. WDEE could have been a tad ahead of it's time but had some really good talent and some awesome jingles. Anybody remember Deano Day? There was Frank Gentry in news who came from KLIF in Dallas and Dave Dials on Sports from ABC Television. Detroit was a much more aggressive radio market during those days.
 
One thing that stands out about the Detroit ratings is that CBS is unusually strong. It has to be one of their best markets.
 
lmao i think its funny i hear so many folks say "wow look at the black radio trends how they changed" in so many markets since PPM.
first, its distribution of the PPM's can be biased from the start. so unless we track the whole city, we will never TRULY know the 100% completely accurate ratings IMO. the D is a chocolate city, not a country city, sorry!
 
Good posts here. What I know about Detroit radio comes from hearing CKLW (The Big Eight) and WJR smashing into Buffalo from across the lake and WDRQ as a Top 40 doing the same before the FM band became littered with Docket 80-90s and translators. Also, Dick Purtan grew up in Buffalo and Tom Shannon made a name for himself in both markets, another Six Degrees of Separation things. As to the observations already made, IHMO the PPM has re-defined the landscape and not necessarily for the better. Like moving the left field wall back another 30 feet, it might require us to hit singles and doubles rather than going for the home run. It's also impossible to make an accurate assessment of ratings based on Persons 12+. More than a few stations with a 4 share 12+ have ranked top 5 Persons 25-54.
 
Radio Potato said:
The Detroit radio market extends just a tad further than the city limits of Detroit.
Click to expand...

Indeed. The Arbitron Metro Survey area consists of the counties of Lapeer, Livingston, Macomb, Monroe, Oakland, St. Claire as well as Wayne. In fact, nearly 60% of the market population is not in Wayne County. The overall population is 22% African American and 4% Hispanic.
 
Word! said:
Detroit
RACE
White 116,599 12.3 %
Black or African American 775,772 81.6 %
Click to expand...

Are you quoting city or market stats here? Detroit isn't just the city...

You have to consider the outlying areas which make up the Metro and then, if you'd like,
add in the melting pot of listeners across the river in Windsor before you have a good view of what "Detroit" is like as an actual market. Word!
 
I'll speak on the urban stations in the Detroit market from what exposure I've had to them via visiting the region. Detroit's urban radio station are bland, plain and simple. WJLB is unique as it is heritage, but it offer nothing of interest because having an all live and local staff. WMXD is the typical urban AC, but I did Frankie Darcell on the air. However, WJLB & WMXD is owned by Clear Channel, who is general hasn't put much effort in most urbans they obtained from the AM/FM merger like those 2. The Radio One cluster is a bore to the point I won't even elaborate on at all. Their only markets they put effort in is their base market Washington DC, Baltimore, and Atlanta.
 
I'm hoping someone will be willing to educate me on radio ratings. WNIC has a cume of 1 million+ listeners but is ranked roughly 11th in the April report but WXYT-FM has just over 900,000 yet has the highest percentage. What is the disconnect here? Why aren't 12+ ratings based upon cume and what exactly does the percentage mean?

I realize only 12+ ratings are provided to the public and that advertisers look for other age groups when deciding where to advertise and what rates to pay. I'd greatly appreciate being able to de-cipher the 12+ ratings though.
 
umfan said:
I'm hoping someone will be willing to educate me on radio ratings. WNIC has a cume of 1 million+ listeners but is ranked roughly 11th in the April report but WXYT-FM has just over 900,000 yet has the highest percentage. What is the disconnect here? Why aren't 12+ ratings based upon cume and what exactly does the percentage mean?

I realize only 12+ ratings are provided to the public and that advertisers look for other age groups when deciding where to advertise and what rates to pay. I'd greatly appreciate being able to de-cipher the 12+ ratings though.
Click to expand...

Besides cume,TSL (time spent listening) is part of the formula for ratings. WXYT-FM must have a very high TSL, not surprising considering the format. Many sports fans live, eat, and breathe sports. WXYT-FM in particular must be doing something right as well. FM sports hasn't caught on to the same degree in the other markets it's being tried.
 
A station's AQH Share is based on how many people and how long they listen! Actually a tad more involved than that but that is basically the formula. A recent PPM training session indicated that PPM is based on the same kind of formular / how many people listen and how long do they listen! A huge cume and a low share indicates a low time spent listening. People are attempting to listen and do turn on the station however something is forcing them to turn out. That tune out could be the presentation (music/talk/interruptions/etc) and it could have something to do with the actual processing of the radio station. Arbitron has some good basic training sessions on line that are often very informative.
 
Word! said:
Detroit
RACE
White 116,599 12.3 %
Black or African American 775,772 81.6 %
Click to expand...

SO, WITH THIS BEING SAID, I have a question:

Lets say that this breakdown is accurate. If Detroit has that high of a black population, then how come all those rhythmics and chr's are thriving there IN ADDITION TO also featuring electro dance & urban dance within their programming, BUT the same "can't happen" in Atlanta? I'm baffled... and need an explanation to why Detroit can do it, but Atlanta "can't".
 
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