99.9 has been registered for some time. It's tower is right near where Mr. Martz's towers are, not even a mile away.
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Detroit's Oasis Endangered Already?
- Thread starter DToTheJ
- Start date
Martz Communications, owners of the Oasis, have an update concerning its dispute with Clear Channel's WIOT, on its website. They assert that the F.C.C. should dismiss their interference complaints. Martz claims that of the 28 WIOT fans who filed complaints, they have "resolved the interference concerns of those nine WIOT listeners that were willing to meet with us. The remaining 19 complaints are considered resolved since they either refused to cooperate, did not provide name and/or contact information, no longer listen to WIOT, did not accept our offer of assistance, or did not respond at all."
It will be interesting to hear whether Clear Channel will continue to fight this, and whether the F.C.C. will buy this argument. This could serve as a precedent for other situations where translators face going off the air, due to interference complaints.
It will be interesting to hear whether Clear Channel will continue to fight this, and whether the F.C.C. will buy this argument. This could serve as a precedent for other situations where translators face going off the air, due to interference complaints.
Clear Channel's just mad that they can't get their own 106.3 translator on the air in New York, so they're taking it away from others.
Martz could have put WIOT on 107.5-HD4 and then offered HD radios to the complainers. I would like to see the FCC's justification for rejecting that proposal, especially after seeing how they rejected the smartphone offer.
Martz could have put WIOT on 107.5-HD4 and then offered HD radios to the complainers. I would like to see the FCC's justification for rejecting that proposal, especially after seeing how they rejected the smartphone offer.
Not that I'm a fan of Clear Channel or the programming on WIOT, but I think it's a big problem to allocate "translator" frequencies within a few miles of an adjacent market's signal contour. If they were trying to use 93.5, 102.3 or 105.5, which are "class A" Toledo area stations (ie, less power, less coverage area), it might work OK. But not on top of a 50kw signal 50 miles away.
I hope this precedent makes it possible to get many of the Calvary Chapel "translator" stations that do likewise booted off the air. Contrary to what one clueless FCC member said awhile ago, they don't have the right tobe on the air, as a defacto national station on every little open space they can squeeze thru paperwork loopholes, much to the detriment of "Class B" stations in adjacent markets who not only should still be audible 50 or 60 miles away, but won't have to experience more signal degradation as close as 30 miles from their transmitter site, which these translator stations can cause, especially in hilly terrain.
I hope this precedent makes it possible to get many of the Calvary Chapel "translator" stations that do likewise booted off the air. Contrary to what one clueless FCC member said awhile ago, they don't have the right tobe on the air, as a defacto national station on every little open space they can squeeze thru paperwork loopholes, much to the detriment of "Class B" stations in adjacent markets who not only should still be audible 50 or 60 miles away, but won't have to experience more signal degradation as close as 30 miles from their transmitter site, which these translator stations can cause, especially in hilly terrain.
Hopefully what this will lead to is a re-evaluation of contours in light of the crowding on the FM dial. It's simply not reasonable for WIOT to be able to claim Detroit and its immediate suburbs as a service area and denying desired content a place on the dial. The FCC decision is right per the current rules but hopefully these broad contours, for all except those designated as clear channel (no, not the radio company, I mean stations designated as such like WJR) should be reduced to better reflect their location of service and not be able to infringe on a major market, like Detroit, while paying the lower rent a small market, like Toledo, offers.
As OhioMediaWatch pointed out in another thread, a translator station (or otherwise) cannot cause interference to a co-channel station within it's protected 54 dBu contour which, for WIOT, happens to include some of the southern suburbs of Detroit and is what happened with 104.7 the Oasis. Putting a translator on 99.9 or 101.5 with the same power/location as the Oasis would have a similar result with co-channel stations in Toledo.
If only it were that simple. Everything I've read about this story and the CC translator issue in NYC is that stations CAN and DO complain about interference outside their 60/54 dBu contours and that's good enough to shut a translator off.
That just really rubs me the wrong way. The "protected contour" is called that for a reason. Anything outside of that is gravy and subject to interference in my world. But that's not the way it works.
"Allegedly-reportedly" we have a nearby silent translator that is off because the owner can't sell it. It's co-channel with a station that's about 70 miles away. That station doesn't even put a 40 dBu signal into this area, but it's strong enough to be received on good car radios. That said, the translator is well outside the coverage of the co-channel full power station, and could probably be maximized to 99 or 250 watts. But it's guaranteed that if that happened the station 3 counties away would squawk and get it cut off.
The translator isn't in the stations primary contour (even outside the "fringe" blue line on Radio-Locator's map) and certainly is nowhere near their market boundaries or metro area. But they would still complain, "just because".
Howintheheck is that fair?
That just really rubs me the wrong way. The "protected contour" is called that for a reason. Anything outside of that is gravy and subject to interference in my world. But that's not the way it works.
"Allegedly-reportedly" we have a nearby silent translator that is off because the owner can't sell it. It's co-channel with a station that's about 70 miles away. That station doesn't even put a 40 dBu signal into this area, but it's strong enough to be received on good car radios. That said, the translator is well outside the coverage of the co-channel full power station, and could probably be maximized to 99 or 250 watts. But it's guaranteed that if that happened the station 3 counties away would squawk and get it cut off.
The translator isn't in the stations primary contour (even outside the "fringe" blue line on Radio-Locator's map) and certainly is nowhere near their market boundaries or metro area. But they would still complain, "just because".
Howintheheck is that fair?
The answer is an expanded FM band, making use of the nearly abandoned 54-88 MHz spectrum.
There are plenty of other stations on second adjacents that can be heard in Metro Detroit, even Class As, some with protected contours reaching the Detroit market. This not only includes stations in Toledo, but stations in the Flint, Lansing, and Port Huron areas.
The strange thing is, if this were a station or translator in Canada, as long as it conformed to the treaty, there would be nothing that could be done about it. This is the situation in Windsor, where there is a huge push to put more Canadian FMs on the air. There are no fewer than 15 signals operating or proposed that serve Essex County, the County where Windsor is located, just across the border from Detroit. The 2006 population is less than 400,000, less than 10% of the 2010 Detroit Metro population, and Essex County also listens heavily to Detroit stations.
There are plenty of other stations on second adjacents that can be heard in Metro Detroit, even Class As, some with protected contours reaching the Detroit market. This not only includes stations in Toledo, but stations in the Flint, Lansing, and Port Huron areas.
The strange thing is, if this were a station or translator in Canada, as long as it conformed to the treaty, there would be nothing that could be done about it. This is the situation in Windsor, where there is a huge push to put more Canadian FMs on the air. There are no fewer than 15 signals operating or proposed that serve Essex County, the County where Windsor is located, just across the border from Detroit. The 2006 population is less than 400,000, less than 10% of the 2010 Detroit Metro population, and Essex County also listens heavily to Detroit stations.
Second that, but I'd rather keep it to 76-88 as a translator/class A band... also having a portion of that noncom only. As for 54-72 (72-76 are for paging services, etc.), I'd like some new amateur, experimental or military bands perhapsSchroedingers Cat said:
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chokesman-review
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Thirded, however I'm not confident such a radical idea as an expanded FM broadcast band would fly. Pretty sure the NAB would come out against it as would the larger conglomerates. Anything that threatens to fragment listenership more...
The transition for consumer radios would be a bear too. Receivers that worked with the expanded band would take awhile to replace the old band. Stations fighting for attention on the expanded band would have tough slugging for some time.
FCC seems more interested in selling off chunks of the spectrum to wireless phone providers anyway.
The transition for consumer radios would be a bear too. Receivers that worked with the expanded band would take awhile to replace the old band. Stations fighting for attention on the expanded band would have tough slugging for some time.
FCC seems more interested in selling off chunks of the spectrum to wireless phone providers anyway.
danikayser84 said:Second that, but I'd rather keep it to 76-88 as a translator/class A band... also having a portion of that noncom only. As for 54-72 (72-76 are for paging services, etc.), I'd like some new amateur, experimental or military bands perhapsSchroedingers Cat said:
Protected contour or no - and I very well could have been wrong in that assumption re: WIOT's northern reach:
WIOT has listeners in those areas, and those listeners complained when The Oasis started up.
A class A local station here, WNIR/100.1 Kent, was able to forestall a translator move on first adjacent 100.3, by having listeners complain in areas far afield from Kent...near the area where the translator would be located.
As it turns out, the station produced listeners in that very area, and encouraged them to write the FCC - which said "sorry, translator".
That's basically what happened here, except the translator, in this case, already was on the air. (The local translator, the former 100.3 Lorain, was bought by Clear Channel and is in the midst of a move to 99.1 Cleveland, so WNIR wasn't involved.)
The end result is - if you have an established service, a new translator (apparently not even within the protected corridor) can't stomp on existing listeners.
99.9 may be a different story. It's my understanding that WKKO has a slight null to the north, at least compared to WIOT's signal in that area. It'll be interesting to watch if WKKO can get Southeast Michigan country fans involved if there's any interference...
WIOT has listeners in those areas, and those listeners complained when The Oasis started up.
A class A local station here, WNIR/100.1 Kent, was able to forestall a translator move on first adjacent 100.3, by having listeners complain in areas far afield from Kent...near the area where the translator would be located.
As it turns out, the station produced listeners in that very area, and encouraged them to write the FCC - which said "sorry, translator".
That's basically what happened here, except the translator, in this case, already was on the air. (The local translator, the former 100.3 Lorain, was bought by Clear Channel and is in the midst of a move to 99.1 Cleveland, so WNIR wasn't involved.)
The end result is - if you have an established service, a new translator (apparently not even within the protected corridor) can't stomp on existing listeners.
99.9 may be a different story. It's my understanding that WKKO has a slight null to the north, at least compared to WIOT's signal in that area. It'll be interesting to watch if WKKO can get Southeast Michigan country fans involved if there's any interference...
OhioMediaWatch said:
How close to Lorain were these WNIR listeners? I find that 100.1 in Lorain or even a bit east of Lorain is always a mixture of WNIR and WSWR/Shelby, OH. I wonder if there are as many WIOT listeners in the southern suburbs of Detroit as there are WRIF listeners in the northern suburbs of Toledo such as Luna Pier? I know when the Zone in Toledo moved from 100.7 to 100.9 it generated lots of complaints from WRIF listeners in the area.
Buckeyes2001 said:
The problem wasn't with W262BN's licensed(-and-silent) facility on 100.3 in the immediate Lorain area.
The problem was when Edgewater Broadcasting ("translator storehouse") filed to move it on that same channel to North Ridgeville, on a cell phone tower along the Ohio Turnpike, on behalf of would-be/and unsuccessful buyer Radio One.
THAT is what got WNIR going. The Akron market talker started running on-air announcements, soliciting listeners in THAT new area (North Ridgeville, etc.) to write if they'd like to stop a new station from interfering with WNIR.
They compiled enough letters to convince the FCC to scotch the move. The translator eventually tested a CP on 99.7 FM - by that point, CC owned it, and a one night-or-whatever test was not a problem for now-co-owned first adjacent WGAR/99.5.
Some technical reason has held up the final move, to 99.1 Cleveland with a 250w facility on the WMJI/105.7 tower.
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