Dick Morris should be fired from WPHT

[FredLeonard]

McClendon played a major role in the creation and development of top 40 as well as all news and all sports/sports talk.

How did you want Armstrong to compromise? RCA set out purposefully to thwart FM radio - with legions of lawyers and lobbyists and the company's ties to the FCC and its disposal.

I had planned to take a little time and compose a list of people in broadcasting I admire but you insist on pushing with "nastiness" of your own. So, cool your jets and I'll give you some names. But if you actually do read my posts, you will notice I have made admiring comments. I am somewhat more selective with my admiration than you seem to be.

 

[Art Landing]

This thread is being hijacked from its original topic of Dick Morris - but the diversion is interesting. I for one have no idea who Mr. Armstrong was and would appreciate knowing more.

I do know that Paley in both radio and television had to play "catch-up" in procuring O&O affiliates and lost out in defining color television technology, but was great at entrusting programming operations to talented surrogates. Sarnoff on the other hand thought talent was secondary to technology, even after Paley's great "talent raid" of the late forties which laid the foundation for the "Tiffany network" of the fifties and sixties. Not even Huntley/Brinkley had the freedom in news of Ed Morrow and Walter Cronkite. I believe that Sylvester "Pat" Weaver was the NBC programming genius who invented the Today and Tonight shows as well as radio's Monitor but Sarnoff let him go - Paley would not have made such an error. Weaver went on to try establishing a version of pay tv that eventually developed into cable.

 

[frankberry]

Armstrong was the inventor of frequency modulation.

 

[FredLeonard]

I admire Pat Weaver for the Today Show, Monitor, the Fred Allen program and the "magazine concept" to TV advertising. In all fairness, he really does not deserve most of the credit for the Tonight Show. NBC had an earlier late night show. Steve Allen had done local shows with the same format he used on the Tonight Show. And Godfrey had pioneered the format even earlier in daytime on CBS. Weaver had originally envisioned more of a Today Show in the evening format (it even had newscast segments early on). Allen quickly departed from that. And Allen's Tonight Show format is very different from late night today.

But Weaver did a lot for NBC and Sarnoff screwed him.

Paley made a smart move in the talent raid. Cronkite never tried to "advocate" the way Murrow did, so freedom was not really an issue. Cronkite was more a politician and he knew how far to go. On the other hand, Paley ultimately cracked down on Murrow and then marginalized him. CBS News' standards of "objectivity" came from Paul White, not Murrow. Murrow did not come out of journalism and was always more of a crusader, or he might say "educator."

Paley sometimes intervened in operations and sometimes did not. He often seemed capricious and people at CBS sometimes referred to the network as Paley's "candy store."

Sarnoff was an idiot to put his son in charge (who later managed to destroy RCA). In all fairness, however, CBS was dominating prime time and daytime and it was not reasonable for NBC to feel the need to make major changes in programming. They should have treated Weaver better but NBC was right to bring in Bob Kintner, who had done much to build up ABC's schedule. Kintner built up NBC News to a dominant position for a decade. Most people think everybody was watching CBS after Kennedy was shot but they weren't.

 

[davideduardo]

McClendon played a major role in the creation and development of top 40 as well as all news and all sports/sports talk.

It's McLendon, not "McClendon". And while he added his own flair to the format, he did not create it. He simply hired one of the two co-creators and even then he hesitated for nearly two years to fully implement the format. While Storz jumped in with a full implementation, McLendon took time changing his block programmed independent station into a full Top 40.

McLendon went on a vacation to Cuba in the late 50's. He heard Goar Mestre's "Reloj Nacional" all-news station, which began in 1948. He copied it on XETRA, Tijuana, Mexico. He didn't create it.

McLendon was out of radio when Emmis did the first all-sports station in New York City. That was 1987. Gordon McLendon had died the year before.

How did you want Armstrong to compromise? RCA set out purposefully to thwart FM radio - with legions of lawyers and lobbyists and the company's ties to the FCC and its disposal.

I did not say he did not compromise with RCA. You are reading stuff into my post. Instead of settling the early patent issues with De Forest regarding the Audion, he chose to litigate with a professional litigator. He fought De Forest at every step, and when De Forest eventually won a major decision, Armstong spent a fortune appealing. It was not until after his death that Armstrong's position prevailed.

I had planned to take a little time and compose a list of people in broadcasting I admire but you insist on pushing with "nastiness" of your own.

The only one calling people "ho" and such is you. I'm kept pretty busy correcting your errors of fact... things like saying Scott Shannon was an AOR jock with no AM Top 40 experience and thus had no right to be on CBS-FM.

So, cool your jets and I'll give you some names. But if you actually do read my posts, you will notice I have made admiring comments.

I have not seen any... generally, you practice the concept of "damn by faint praise".

I am somewhat more selective with my admiration than you seem to be.

I named two people I admire, Tom Rounds and Todd Storz. That's pretty selective out of all the possible people in the industry.

But I can add names like
Ward Quaal
Elmo Ellis
Edwin Armstrong
Jeff Smulyan
Sol Taishoff
Bob Wilson
Bill Gavin
Jerry Blum
Goar Mestre
Emilio Azcárraga Vidaurreta
Howard Kalmenson
Francisco Aguirre, Sr.
John Kluge.... and many more of equal or greater importance. I only named two because they directly affected me and my life.

 

[davideduardo]

Armstrong was the inventor of frequency modulation.

But even more important, he discovered why De Forest's Audion worked and improved it, via regeneration, so that it amplified much better and figured out how to make it transmit as well. Then he developed the superheterodyne receiver which allowed broadcast signals to be much more widely received.

Marconi invented the wireless. De Forest discovered the triode vacuum tube that made broadcast of speech practical. Armstrong's inventions made broadcasting to a mass audience viable.

 

[FredLeonard]

McLendon was out of radio when Emmis did the first all-sports station in New York City. That was 1987. Gordon McLendon had died the year before.

I was referring to the Liberty Broadcasting System, the predecessor to FAN and to ESPN.

Again, your list includes people with notable accomplishments but my list of heroes (which I will get to) is also based on personal qualities.

Ward Quaal is an alumnus of the University of Michigan and therefore not eligible for my list. I will consider Jim Quello.

 

[davideduardo]

I was referring to the Liberty Broadcasting System, the predecessor to FAN and to ESPN

Not quite. McLendon, like others such as George Mooney, created a network around the recreation of sports events, mostly baseball. He used the Western Union inning by inning summaries to dramatize the action with essentially no rights payments (around $1000 a year).

The Liberty Network was fundamentally just those baseball recreations. It had a couple of other shows, notably a dance band program, but few affiliates carried the other stuff. When MLB raised the fees to a quarter million a year, and excluded all markets with a major league or minor league farm team, the network folded in 1952 after making little or no money for the prior 4 years.

Liberty was not sports talk at all. It was not all sports. It was about 400 hours a year of baseball with little pre and post game shows.

Again, your list includes people with notable accomplishments but my list of heroes (which I will get to) is also based on personal qualities.

Many of the people who accomplished the most were not given to the most refined social graces.

Ward Quaal is an alumnus of the University of Michigan and therefore not eligible for my list. I will consider Jim Quello.

Hmm. I forgot to add one of my more respected "hero" candidates: Waldo Abbot, head of the communications department at the University of Michigan, founder of the FM station there, and writer of what for decades was the most respected radio textbook at the college level, "Handbook of Broadcasting". He was also my next-door neighbor part of the year and I dated his granddaughter, Brenda.

Of course, my alliances lean to East Lansing where I did pre-Freshman journalism courses and was on the summer staff of the campus paper.

 

[FredLeonard]

Of course, my alliances lean to East Lansing where I did pre-Freshman journalism courses and was on the summer staff of the campus paper.

Good for you. The Daily was/is a joke. WKAR was a full-fledged public radio station from Day 1 and for years after while WUOM signed on at midday and played classical music and occasional lectures and roundtable discussions by professors, not realizing the era of "educational radio" had ended. It eventually became the department of communication but back in Abbot's day it was Speech and Theater.

As you may know, the chairman of MSU's television and radio department wrote a respected text book on broadcast management with Ward Quaal.

Founders of the FM station at UNC: Chapel Hill - Carl Kasell and Charles Kuralt.
Founders of the FM station at American University - Ed Walker and Willard Scott.

Ed Walker may qualify as a true "hero." In addition to helping start what is now a leading public radio station, he was half of a ground-breaking local radio comedy team and continues to broadcast at 82. And he has been blind his whole life.

It takes more than making a lot of money to make a hero.

______________

OK, here are some names of "heroes," just for you David and beginning with those once associated with the station we started discussing here.

Bob Menefee
Taylor Grant
John Facenda
Brad Crandall
Howard Stern
Don Imus
Ken Draper
Nick Orkin
Jack Benny
Stan Freberg
Mickey Schorr
Lou Gordon
Fran Striker
Elmer Knopf

 

[davideduardo]

WKAR was a full-fledged public radio station from Day 1 and for years after while WUOM signed on at midday and played classical music and occasional lectures and roundtable discussions by professors, not realizing the era of "educational radio" had ended. It eventually became the department of communication but back in Abbot's day it was Speech and Theater.

But your comparison is one of apples and artichokes. WKAR went on the air in 1922 while WUOM came on in 1940. WKAR evolved over the next 36 years to 1948 to be a totally different station. WKAR added an FM simulcast in 1948 as well, and the intent was in no small part to make up for the daytime nature of the AM license.

WUOM was on a band with few listeners. It was perceived to have as an objective that of furthering the fine arts, as well as being a training ground for students. And in 1948, speech and drama were important parts of radio, commercial and non-commercial. I recall mentioning to Waldo that I was building FMs in about 1966, and he was somewhat shocked that I would do a pop music format on the "cultural" band. Had the FCC not ended simulcasting the next year, he might have been right.

As you may know, the chairman of MSU's television and radio department wrote a respected text book on broadcast management with Ward Quaal.

Yes, I know. It is in the public domain now, and I have a copy on my website as does The Internet Archive.

OK, here are some names of "heroes," just for you David and beginning with those once associated with the station we started discussing here.

Bob Menefee
Taylor Grant
John Facenda
Brad Crandall
Howard Stern
Don Imus
Ken Draper
Nick Orkin
Jack Benny
Stan Freberg
Mickey Schorr
Lou Gordon
Fran Striker
Elmer Knopf

I agree with you on a most of these. A few I am not familiar enough with to make my own judgment.

I'd only disagree with Stern and possibly Imus. Stern pushed the envelope in the wrong way. I don't think he did anything positive, and in some ways he hurt the image of radio. He was successful, but as you say, it's not all about just making money. I feel the same way about Imus in his pre-WFAN years, both NYC and particularly Cleveland.

 

[FredLeonard]

I'd only disagree with Stern and possibly Imus. Stern pushed the envelope in the wrong way. I don't think he did anything positive, and in some ways he hurt the image of radio. He was successful, but as you say, it's not all about just making money. I feel the same way about Imus in his pre-WFAN years, both NYC and particularly Cleveland.

I don't think it was about money for Howard, either. But if you exclude Howard and Imus (who may have stayed too long at the party), you have to exclude all of radio's "bad boys" back to Godfrey. From all I've read about them, Imus fought his demons. And Howard is a decent and caring guy.

WKAR was the same kind of educational radio station prior to CPB and NPR as WUOM. The point is they recognized what was happening, they embraced it and ran with it. The station simulcast during the educational radio era, so it was one station and hardly anybody was listening in either band. Unfortunately, since the college of communication arts took it over, it has gone downhill - way downhill. Go figure.

I'll add John Charles Patrick Croghan Daly. Unfortunately, all anybody remembers is What's My Line but in addition as a news broadcaster he bought a level of depth, intellectual rigor and erudition to the job his competitors lacked.

There a moments in radio when everything fell into place and the result was phenomenal "must hear" radio. I don't know all the names behind the "magic" and for those I do know, I don't know much about them. So I will allow for a category of Unknown Heroes. Sad part is the "magic" or "chemistry" of those stations lasted a few years and seemed to dissipate. Excellence seldom lasts.

 

[Jul]

I'm getting tired of people saying to me that 1210 should not change format, because there's no option. 1210 should change formats or shut the station down because they shouldn't be held hostage with a failing format, period.

 

[FredLeonard]

I'm getting tired of people saying to me that 1210 should not change format, because there's no option. 1210 should change formats or shut the station down because they shouldn't be held hostage with a failing format, period.

Julius, has it ever occurred to you those people are tired of you saying 1210 should change its format? You're beating a dead horse. Maybe they will change at some point. Maybe not. Either way, you saying the same thing over and over on a message board won't make it happen.

Besides, I haven't seen you offer any better alternative. Right-wing talk radio is sinking all over the country. The problem isn't 1210. And I can't think of any instances in the past decade when an AM station has flipped and not ended up in any better market position - and usually a worse one. AM stations can not build an audience any more and they'd just be throwing away the audience (and the clients) they have.

Find another station to worry about.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm getting tired of people saying to me that 1210 should not change format, because there's no option. 1210 should change formats or shut the station down because they shouldn't be held hostage with a failing format, period.

Julius,

The station makes money, and it has value. They are not going to change format as there is no alternative format that is viable for an AM and they are not going to turn it off as that means walking away from a valuable stick.

Suggest changes to the existing format. Criticize the talk hosts. But do not suggest the absurd.

 

[FredLeonard]

Let's keep in mind that everything Julius has suggested has been done and every time the station was worse off and never came back to its previous levels.

1976: Flips to Newsradio88 all news format.
1980: Flips back to Talk.
1990: Flips to Oldies.
1993: Flips to Sports Talk
1996: Flips back to Talk.

However bad things are now, flipping will make it worse.

 

[Jul]

Let's keep in mind that everything Julius has suggested has been done and every time the station was worse off and never came back to its previous levels.

1976: Flips to Newsradio88 all news format.
1980: Flips back to Talk.
1990: Flips to Oldies.
1993: Flips to Sports Talk
1996: Flips back to Talk.

However bad things are now, flipping will make it worse.

anything at this point would be better than political talk. They need to go with a format that will make the station money, 24/7. Sports is one of those formats.