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jetfli said:
Huh? I learned a long time ago that if you find a formula that works, you stick with it. If WMAK was successful, and people liked the station, then its audience should have willingly transfered to 97.1 the minute the format changed. That's what usually happens, especially if most of the talent migrates as well. They did a huge ad campaign to let people know their friends were in a new place, and the listeners didn't show up. "Create a unique identity?" Are you on crack? It's an Oldies station for God's sake! Just say "We play the hits you grew up with," and you should be fine. There is nothing unique about the format. Compare the most successful stations around the country, and you'll se basically the same formula everywhere. If it worked at WMAK, it should have worked at 97.1. IF it was about the format, and IF it was about these personalities.
EXCEPT that the public felt insulted and hurt that their favorite station had flipped formats on them, and they simply didn't want to shop at a new store that featured the old products. They'd rather not listen to the radio than change stations. A big chunk was hoping that their favorite station would realize they made a mistake, and return to Oldies. But they weren't going to follow the format someplace else. That's what a lot of people said. The ONLY way Oldies will work in Nashville is if 96.3 gives up on Jack, hires the old staff back, and brings back the oldies and the old jingles. Otherwise, it will fail. Mark my words.
jetfli said:
I already addressed that in another post. They discovered what South Central knew, which was that the demo was a loser. It may have made sense when they had an LSA with WSM-AM. But when that ended, the gig was up. They're better with a 1 share playing rock than a 2 share with oldies.
This topic has been discussed so much over the years and it never seems to end. WMAK for the record, was VERY successful from a ratings standpoint. The problem was that the traditional "oldies" demo was attracting an audience that was too old for the 20 something year old media buyers at the New York ad agencies and lots of the formats audience was well beyond the coveted 25-54 demo. The truth is, South Central exited the format "just in time". If Cumulus had re-branded the station, one could argue that it may have lasted a little longer, but the format as it was then, was over. I don't think 97.1 did a good job telling the core 96.3 audience that the format had moved up the dial. Insiders told me that at many 97.1 (Oldies) appearances, some core listeners never made the connection that the station had changed frequencies and referred to the station as Oldies 96.3. I think, especially early on, that lots of WMAK listeners kept listening to 96.3 and didn't realize that their music and station was relocated.
You said 97.1 did a huge campaign to invite the 96.3 audience over.That is totally not true. They may have done something the first month or so, but after that, there was little or no promotion for 97.1. You are also wrong when you say the WMAK audience was loyal to the radio station..again, totally untrue. The audience was loyal to THE FORMAT and had they known about the frequency change, they MAY have followed. 97.1 should have advertised and promoted this format for at least 6 months after the change. It takes that long for the message to sink in.
AND, last but not least, another untruth, if 96.3 brings back tghe old staff, the jingles and the music, it will work in Nashville..what?? the traditional Oldies format is dead in the water. Jet Fli was right on all counts
You said 97.1 did a huge campaign to invite the 96.3 audience over.That is totally not true. They may have done something the first month or so, but after that, there was little or no promotion for 97.1. You are also wrong when you say the WMAK audience was loyal to the radio station..again, totally untrue. The audience was loyal to THE FORMAT and had they known about the frequency change, they MAY have followed. 97.1 should have advertised and promoted this format for at least 6 months after the change. It takes that long for the message to sink in.
AND, last but not least, another untruth, if 96.3 brings back tghe old staff, the jingles and the music, it will work in Nashville..what?? the traditional Oldies format is dead in the water. Jet Fli was right on all counts
At one point, most of the audience would have followed Coyote and Cathy anywhere! Remember that website that they set up, coyoteandcathy.com? There was much discussion on that site about who would hire them next, and would the audience follow them there. This seemed to be regardless of the format. Of course, we all know what happened. The site gave listeners false hope that C&C would eventually return somewhere, which never happened. Eventually the site got spammed with trolls and was finally taken down all together. There was obviously never any real news about where C&C was going, so there was no point in leaving the site up.
I never really thought Coyote was all that great, but at least he played music, which is more than we can say for most morning shows!
I never really thought Coyote was all that great, but at least he played music, which is more than we can say for most morning shows!
Oldies formats are actually having a resurgence in the PPM measured world; WCBS-FM is #1 in the current NY ratings. In a market the size of Nashville, most of the business is local, not national, so 20 year old NewYork buyers shouldn't be a major concern. Like Country, Urban etc. oldies would always benefit from a sales staff who were partisans of the format. Oldies could do well in Nashville again. Of course most succesful Oldies stations include compatible 80s music and not the 50s music they once played.
radiodood said:
I agree. The only way they MIGHT have realized it would be if 96.3 told them. And that wasn't going to happen.
radiodood said:
They did a full TV, billboard, and newspaper campaign. There were articles in the local paper. Coyote and Cathy were guests on the local TV talk shows, and the evening news reported it. The only thing they didn't do is make personal visitation to every WMAK listener and change their stations to 97.1. That might have been the only thing that would have worked.
radiodood said:
You yourself said the listeners stayed with Jack after the flip. That is what our research showed too. That is why I say they could only listen to oldies on 96.3. Someone moved their cheeze, and they continued to go where the cheeze had been.
Explain to me what 97.1 needed to do to let them know. Because they did every possible thing a radio station can do, other than jam the 96.3 frequency with interference.
radiodood said:
I agree the format is dead, and that's why South Central won't bring it back. But no other station will do it either, because it costs too much to change the habits of the Oldies audience. All the money and time that was spent to attempt to change their habit from 96.3 to 97.1 was wasted. Advertisers saw this too, and it reinforced their view that advertising is not effective in changing the buying habits of this audience.
My main point, however, that the problem with 97.1 was NOT that it didn't have a unique identity. The audience would not have accepted a unique identity. It wanted its old station back, at its old location. That was the only thing they'd accept.
What? "It's a totally oldies weekend on 96.3!?" With old jingles, recordings and everything? Throw that in for a weekend every month or so. Mix it up. See what happens. Isn't Jack supposed to be "unpredictable" and play what they want? If nothing else it'll be good publicity for Jack and satisfy an oldies fever for some, without hearing it over and over and over.
B
beatlenut
Guest
Ed Salamon said:
Is WCBS making enough in sales to justify the format? That seems to be the main concern about creating another Oldies station in Nashville.
I believe it could work well (ratings), but it's not just about not playing 50's music anymore - it's about picking the right music from the era for today's Oldies listener. When the younger demo is introduced to Oldies, they generally like it, and it's a refreshing change from today's music, which to most of us, all sounds the same. Had Oldies 97.1 put more money into promoting the station, its image, its personalities, ITS NEW FREQUENCY (along with a delay in format flip as Tibbs suggested), they would have had a better chance. But because the format has not done as well since Dave LaBrozie programmed it here, the concensus is that it's a dying format, and no one will take the chance on it.
beatlenut said:
They rank #16 in revenues, about the same as stations getting a 2 share.
As the former PD of WMAK said in another thread, the reason South Central dropped Oldies as a format was because of declining revenues, attributed to rising median age of the audience.
It was logical for Cumulus to pick up the format at the time, because they had an LSA with WSM-AM. But once that ended, they were faced with the same problem that WMAK had, which was an aging audience.
Big A ? Do you friggin ever sleep? I don't. ;D FTR, lets get Beatlenut (aka...) to answer the question --- why did Lostulus pick up Oldies? I don't believe that anyone that suggested (in mgmt) that they flip to oldies ever considered "a tie in" with WSM-AM. Where'd that logic come from? (To obvious) ???
Hmm! Gotta re-think what you guys said above. Would ya rather rank #16 in rev in NYC or have a 2 share in #44? Hehehe. Seriously, I think everyone that has ever logged onto the Nashville board has read that ratings don't mean squat to revenues in many cases. Like the V-103 posts in ATL. Would you rather be B? or V? Here: rather be Beat or Jack?
Answer as ya will.
Hmm! Gotta re-think what you guys said above. Would ya rather rank #16 in rev in NYC or have a 2 share in #44? Hehehe. Seriously, I think everyone that has ever logged onto the Nashville board has read that ratings don't mean squat to revenues in many cases. Like the V-103 posts in ATL. Would you rather be B? or V? Here: rather be Beat or Jack?
Answer as ya will.
Tibbs2 said:
I don't think the WSM-AM tie in was the reason. The clock was ticking on the LSA. I think they seriously expected to attract a large portion of WMAK's audience. It was a huge opportunity for a station that needed a hit format. That was the primary reason. But there were demographic synergies with WSM and WWTN. Neither Clear Channel nor Citadel have those synergies. Another reason why no FM signal will flip to Oldies.
I can't believe people couldn't find their oldies right next door ...one station over! Don't most people turn the dial or "button push" the seek/scan button? If they couldn't figure out that 97.1 was playing the exact same music as 96.3 the next day, then too bad. Don't think they had to go overboard advertising about it! Anyway, I would be more than happy if they'd just move WKOM into Franklin and let it be heard in Nashville Metro ...better. Move or downgrade whatever is preventing that from happening! Problem solved. Well, for some.
The Christian music community had these same issues about 10 years ago. Remember "the One" from 1999-2001? They were on a full-power FM station at the time, but that didn't last. Then they were "born again" as "the FISH" (actually two "minnows" ;D) on two smaller frequencies, and have been there ever since 2002. Oldies could do the same thing. Oldies will likely never be on a full-power frequency ever again, but I don't see any reason why an already underperforming FM station (or several of them) couldn't try oldies. (106.7 seems like one obvious choice (maybe for a flagship station), but they are also a "come-in-last" station, and "come-in-last" already had their shot at oldies, and blew it big time!) Of course, I know that this will never happen, but just thought I'd throw it out there for discussion.
At the same time, it's been five years since Oldies 96.3 left the air, so the pressure to create another Oldies 96.3 clone won't be there now.
At the same time, it's been five years since Oldies 96.3 left the air, so the pressure to create another Oldies 96.3 clone won't be there now.
I fully agree. It's pure bunk to suggest that they couldn't find it. It was well advertised and well publicized. It's just that "come-in-last" blew it, just like they have done with all their other frequencies.roadrunner said:
I agree with that, too. I get my "oldies fix" on 101.7. They don't always come in very well here (Bellevue/Pegram) but other times, they come in like they are right next door!
I am right at the very fringe of their coverage area.- Status