• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Did anyone read the comments from Froggy's VP Frank Bell?

B

BillAlexander

Did anyone read the comments from Froggy's VP Frank Bell? His comments are dealing why Froggy 98 is not broadcasting the Duquesne High School championship game. Bell stated that "WOGI will not abandon its country audience to broadcast the Duquesne-Southern Columbia football game this Friday."

I think it is interesting that WJPA, WPTT and WLSW will forgo normal programing to do the games. Some of you will say that WJPA and WLSW are small fringe market stations and that it is understandable why the are doing it. But what about Rhenda's WPTT.... Its ok for them to do it...It is only AM.

What are your thoughts?

If you would like to read the complete article go to http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15700603&BRD=1282&PAG=461&dept_id=182121&rfi=8<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Bill Alexander on 12/07/05 04:06 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> Did anyone read the comments from Froggy's VP Frank Bell?
> His comments are dealing why Froggy 98 is not broadcasting
> the Duquesne High School championship game. Bell stated
> that "WOGI will not abandon its country audience to
> broadcast the Duquesne-Southern Columbia football game this
> Friday."
>
> I think it is interesting that WJPA, WPTT and WLSW will
> forgo normal programing to do the games. Some of you will
> say that WJPA and WLSW are small fringe market stations and
> that it is understandable why the are doing it. But what
> about Rhenda's WPTT.... Its ok for them to do it...It is
> only AM.
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> If you would like to read the complete article go to
http://www.zwire.com/site/ne> ws.cfm?newsid=15700603&BRD=1282&PAG=461&dept_id=182121&rfi=8
>

Here's what Frank Bell meant:

"WOGI isn't gonna waste its time broadcasting a high school football game that we can't sell to our other stations. Come on, I mean, really! We're a Pittsburgh station, you know! Ok, so our COL was moved 30 miles north from the Mon Valley. But we're a big city station. We don't worry about that small-town crap, like high school football. We worry about big-city stuff. You know we have Jimmy Roach. Besides, to take WOGI off-line for a single football game (!) would reek havoc upon our networking systems. We run a very delicate operation of smoke and mirrors, convincing Pittsburghers that we're a full-market station when we need 5 separate stations to cover the metro. Besides, we're in the middle of a book, and I think we can catch Y108 now."

That's what Bell meant.
 
> > Did anyone read the comments from Froggy's VP Frank Bell?
>
> > His comments are dealing why Froggy 98 is not broadcasting
>
> > the Duquesne High School championship game. Bell stated
> > that "WOGI will not abandon its country audience to
> > broadcast the Duquesne-Southern Columbia football game
> this
> > Friday."
> >
> > I think it is interesting that WJPA, WPTT and WLSW will
> > forgo normal programing to do the games. Some of you will
>
> > say that WJPA and WLSW are small fringe market stations
> and
> > that it is understandable why the are doing it. But what
> > about Rhenda's WPTT.... Its ok for them to do it...It is
> > only AM.
> >
> > What are your thoughts?
> >
> > If you would like to read the complete article go to
> http://www.zwire.com/site/ne>
> ws.cfm?newsid=15700603&BRD=1282&PAG=461&dept_id=182121&rfi=8
>
> >
>
> Here's what Frank Bell meant:
>
> "WOGI isn't gonna waste its time broadcasting a high school
> football game that we can't sell to our other stations.
> Come on, I mean, really! We're a Pittsburgh station, you
> know! Ok, so our COL was moved 30 miles north from the Mon
> Valley. But we're a big city station. We don't worry about
> that small-town crap, like high school football. We worry
> about big-city stuff. You know we have Jimmy Roach.
> Besides, to take WOGI off-line for a single football game
> (!) would reek havoc upon our networking systems. We run a
> very delicate operation of smoke and mirrors, convincing
> Pittsburghers that we're a full-market station when we need
> 5 separate stations to cover the metro. Besides, we're in
> the middle of a book, and I think we can catch Y108 now."
>
> That's what Bell meant.
>



You gotta give the people what they want, and Western PA/Tri-State loves it's high school football! <P ID="signature">______________
~Always leave a hole when you go.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.OneVoiceNow.Blogspot.com>Are we really one voice?</a></P>
 
Keymarket emphasizes live and local.

You can't get much more local than the high school football team of your C.O.L., even if it goes with your format like night and day.

I'd recommend that they broadcast it live. The Duquense game is Friday at 1pm. The Froggy stations are local from 1pm-3pm anyhow. Just go 12:52pm-3:38pm on 98.3 and you're gold.

The other three Froggy's can still be local while the Duquense game is on 98.3. And, the afternoon drive show would still air on all four stations, with 98.3 jumping in a half-hour late.<P ID="signature">______________
...Steel City Spin...</P>
 
It does?? I live in Western PA. I can't STAND high school football and I think it's the dumbest thing ever put on television. I go APE-SHAT when the news ends at 11:15 on Friday nights to cover what...? possibly the most insignificant thing I can think of in all of Pittsburgh? WHO would watch this CRAP? MY GOD, now you tell me its LIVE ON RADIO TOO??? I had no idea. GOD you people are DESPERATE to watch football in Pittsburgh. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Steelers but you people will apparently watch ANYTHING if it involves a football! You would probably watch MIDDLE SCHOOL football if they put it on huh. You would probably watch high school football coverage from Podunk, Iowa too wouldn't you! High school football... don't get me started. How is is POSSIBLE that ANYONE other than actual dads of actual kids in actual games is watching/listening to this?? And why are those dads watching anyway, why aren't they AT THE GAME with their kids?

I HATE country and I'm ready to start listening to Froggy RIGHT NOW Just on principle. This Bell guy sounds like a man after my own heart. FINALLY someone who realizes NO ONE CARES about CHILDREN playing BAD football for teams no one has ever heard of or cares about.

Who THE HELL is the Beaver Blackhawks and just WHY should I care. Where I'm from we don't waste valuable airtime on this. High school football gets a results page (no graphics) buried deep within the Sports section of the paper. As it should be. I wouldn't even care how MY OWN high school football team does. That ended about my senior year when I graduated and left the other children behind.

Hey!! I just heard the elementary school near me, they're going to play Tiddly-Winks on the playground after school!! Someone call Fedko and gas up the Chopper!!! Wooo!!!!


>
>
> You gotta give the people what they want, and Western
> PA/Tri-State loves it's high school football!
>
 
Anyone who actually thought Keymarket would seriously replace their 12-in-a-row sweeps for high school football are only fooling themselves. Keymarket has some pie-in-the-sky dreams of one day overtaking the "400 lb. gorilla" that is Y108, and will someday come to the realization that it just won't happen. But the article was tounge-in-cheek, I don't really think that Frank Bell or anyone from Keymarket have ever thought of airing high school football on ANY of their stations. At least not the FMs. I know the AMs in OH have done HS football, but that's about as far as they'll go. I know 1 of their New Castle holdings airs the Steelers, but that was because the previous owners had the original deal, and Keymarket may just be playing out the string before they add their "12-in-a-row" there as well.

As for the asnine comments from Barry: TV stations actually GAIN from the extensive HS football coverage. True, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but since Western PA people, in general, are more provincial than people in other parts of the country, allegiances to their communities are more common. And where else does that exist more than their local school, especially when they're successful. So, people like to root on their HS team, then run home to see the highlights, if possible. Fox Sports Pittsburgh has shown gains when they air the WPIAL football & basketball finals, and I'm sure PCN will spike this weekend seeing that all 4 Western teams in the finals are from WPIAL.

But if anyone actually thought Froggy would drop their music for sports are the ones who still hold out for a Steelers Super Bowl appearance this year.
 
Provincial, I like that. A fancy way of saying western PA'ians don't get out much. Hey, at least you're honest about it. You're OK in my book.

> Anyone who actually thought Keymarket would seriously
> replace their 12-in-a-row sweeps for high school football
> are only fooling themselves. Keymarket has some
> pie-in-the-sky dreams of one day overtaking the "400 lb.
> gorilla" that is Y108, and will someday come to the
> realization that it just won't happen. But the article was
> tounge-in-cheek, I don't really think that Frank Bell or
> anyone from Keymarket have ever thought of airing high
> school football on ANY of their stations. At least not the
> FMs. I know the AMs in OH have done HS football, but that's
> about as far as they'll go. I know 1 of their New Castle
> holdings airs the Steelers, but that was because the
> previous owners had the original deal, and Keymarket may
> just be playing out the string before they add their
> "12-in-a-row" there as well.
>
> As for the asnine comments from Barry: TV stations actually
> GAIN from the extensive HS football coverage. True, it's
> not everyone's cup of tea, but since Western PA people, in
> general, are more provincial than people in other parts of
> the country, allegiances to their communities are more
> common. And where else does that exist more than their
> local school, especially when they're successful. So,
> people like to root on their HS team, then run home to see
> the highlights, if possible. Fox Sports Pittsburgh has
> shown gains when they air the WPIAL football & basketball
> finals, and I'm sure PCN will spike this weekend seeing that
> all 4 Western teams in the finals are from WPIAL.
>
> But if anyone actually thought Froggy would drop their music
> for sports are the ones who still hold out for a Steelers
> Super Bowl appearance this year.
>
 
Mr. Bell is maintaining the integrity of the format.
I wouldn't air high school football on a major market
FM either. It's a tune out factor. Besides, would the
Duquesne game benefit the "majority" of the audience?
How many medium/large/major market "country" programmers
would allow high school football to be aired on their
stations?

Pittsburgh and its suburbs may love high school football,
but they love Perogies too. And I don't see McDonald's,
Burger King or Pizza Hut selling them!
 
> Keymarket emphasizes live and local.
>
> You can't get much more local than the high school football
> team of your C.O.L., even if it goes with your format like
> night and day.
>
> I'd recommend that they broadcast it live. The Duquense
> game is Friday at 1pm. The Froggy stations are local from
> 1pm-3pm anyhow. Just go 12:52pm-3:38pm on 98.3 and you're
> gold.
>
> The other three Froggy's can still be local while the
> Duquense game is on 98.3. And, the afternoon drive show
> would still air on all four stations, with 98.3 jumping in a
> half-hour late.
>
You're preachin' to the choir!!!! "Amen!...and pass the loote!"..Rt. Rev. Billy Saul Hargus, DelRio, Texas.
 
Re: High School Football on the Radio in Pittsburgh

As someone else stated Froggy claims to be "Live and Local", Which is farthest from the truth. However, that's a story for another time.

I don't care what the programing is as long as I can make a profit airing it. For example, If I could have the chance I would put POLKA on the on the air 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And trust me it could make money if it was marketed and sold right. Just because you personally don't like something does not mean that it won't work (Programers handbook lesson #1).

I remember a few years ago, someone said that Steeler Football would not work on a FM station in Pittsburgh. And if it doesn't work why is WDVE still the flagship station for the Steelers?

Pittsburgh Radio needs to take a risk here and there.

One more thing, If there isn't money in it, why is there a website devote to just high school sport broadcasting in the region (www.msasportsnetwork.com)?


> It does?? I live in Western PA. I can't STAND high school
> football and I think it's the dumbest thing ever put on
> television. I go APE-SHAT when the news ends at 11:15 on
> Friday nights to cover what...? possibly the most
> insignificant thing I can think of in all of Pittsburgh? WHO
> would watch this CRAP? MY GOD, now you tell me its LIVE ON
> RADIO TOO??? I had no idea. GOD you people are DESPERATE to
> watch football in Pittsburgh. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the
> Steelers but you people will apparently watch ANYTHING if it
> involves a football! You would probably watch MIDDLE SCHOOL
> football if they put it on huh. You would probably watch
> high school football coverage from Podunk, Iowa too wouldn't
> you! High school football... don't get me started. How is is
> POSSIBLE that ANYONE other than actual dads of actual kids
> in actual games is watching/listening to this?? And why are
> those dads watching anyway, why aren't they AT THE GAME with
> their kids?
>
> I HATE country and I'm ready to start listening to Froggy
> RIGHT NOW Just on principle. This Bell guy sounds like a man
> after my own heart. FINALLY someone who realizes NO ONE
> CARES about CHILDREN playing BAD football for teams no one
> has ever heard of or cares about.
>
> Who THE HELL is the Beaver Blackhawks and just WHY should I
> care. Where I'm from we don't waste valuable airtime on
> this. High school football gets a results page (no graphics)
> buried deep within the Sports section of the paper. As it
> should be. I wouldn't even care how MY OWN high school
> football team does. That ended about my senior year when I
> graduated and left the other children behind.
>
> Hey!! I just heard the elementary school near me, they're
> going to play Tiddly-Winks on the playground after school!!
> Someone call Fedko and gas up the Chopper!!! Wooo!!!!
>
>
> >
> >
> > You gotta give the people what they want, and Western
> > PA/Tri-State loves it's high school football!
> >
>
 
> It does?? I live in Western PA. I can't STAND high school
> football and I think it's the dumbest thing ever put on
> television.

But I gather that you didn't grow up here. That's just a guess.

Having said that, there's NO WAY i would put a high school game on a metro FM. Maybe WJPA, maybe Butler, maybe Connelsville, not Froggy.

And what happened to the network that was doing the games on 970, aren't they doing them this year?<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
 
Re: High School Football on the Radio in Pittsburgh

> Just because you personally don't like something does not mean that it won't > work

Nor does the fact that it sometimes works for some people in some markets mean that it will work well for a station as part of a long-term, well-planned strategy.

And, on the subject of what people like, could it be that audience research testing showed that fans of country music in Western Pennsylvania tend to be less interested in local high school football than the public at large? Or that even if Froggy did manage to sell a big chunk of airtime to the same advertisers who buy space in high school yearbooks (and for the same reason), that one time stunt wouldn't translate into any continuing success? Or that what it would cost to do a live remote, including hiring play-by-play talent, wouldn't be covered by the profits from the commercials sold?

> One more thing, If there isn't money in it, why is there
> a website devote to just high school sport broadcasting in
> the region (www.msasportsnetwork.com)?

I'm not disputing that there's money to be made by airing local football games. However, the fact that there is a website devoted to something does not prove that fact. All the existence of a website proves is that one person was willing to go to the trouble and expense of starting one. And it isn't all that much trouble, nor does it cost all that much.
 
> Mr. Bell is maintaining the integrity of the format.
> I wouldn't air high school football on a major market
> FM either. It's a tune out factor. Besides, would the
> Duquesne game benefit the "majority" of the audience?
> How many medium/large/major market "country" programmers
> would allow high school football to be aired on their
> stations?
>
> Pittsburgh and its suburbs may love high school football,
> but they love Perogies too. And I don't see McDonald's,
> Burger King or Pizza Hut selling them!

The poster is the former PD of WOGI.
 
Re: High School Football on the Radio in Pittsburgh

> I'm not disputing that there's money to be made by airing
> local football games. However, the fact that there is a
> website devoted to something does not prove that fact. All
> the existence of a website proves is that one person was
> willing to go to the trouble and expense of starting one.
> And it isn't all that much trouble, nor does it cost all
> that much.
>

It's all relative.

If you're WTYM in Kittanning, the $5 spots you can get from 30 local advertisers for a taped high school sporting event (because you're 3 watts at night) represent good money.

If you're a full-market FM signal (close enough, for this conversation)in market 22, with a full spot load two Fridays before Christmas, you would simply be flushing money down the toilet running a high school football game. Frankly even 970 wouldn't want it at 1PM on a Friday. With all the agency people on this board, I'm sure someone can share with us what the Frogs get for a :30 mid-days...

It's NOT about the audience in this case (and anymore, is it ever?)

<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
 
Gotta Agree With The Frog, Here...

> But if anyone actually thought Froggy would drop their music
> for sports are the ones who still hold out for a Steelers
> Super Bowl appearance this year.

There's a fault in the article that started all this.

It made the mistaken impression that the COL for WOGI *means* anything. It doesn't. It's just the Wide Spot In The Road which got Keymarket a Pittsburgh-market FM signal. Period. And that's all it is.

What obligation does WOGI have to carry high school football games from the school that serves its COL? Why should it?

The "local service" fiction horse broke free of the barn long ago. Does this mean that WPTT should be REQUIRED to carry McKeesport games, even though it has a signal that serves a few dozen communities throughout the Pittsburgh market? How about tiny little WURP...should they be forced to carry games out of Braddock?

You get the idea.

Now, it'd be cool if the Local Station carried the Local Games, but...COL notwithstanding, WOGI is a Pittsburgh market country station. It is not even the "historic Duquesne station", as it hasn't been there for more than a handful of years.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>
 
Basically he's saying, "We ran the numbers on this and we wouldn't gain a dime from carrying the football game."






> > Did anyone read the comments from Froggy's VP Frank Bell?
>
> > His comments are dealing why Froggy 98 is not broadcasting
>
> > the Duquesne High School championship game. Bell stated
> > that "WOGI will not abandon its country audience to
> > broadcast the Duquesne-Southern Columbia football game
> this
> > Friday."
> >
> > I think it is interesting that WJPA, WPTT and WLSW will
> > forgo normal programing to do the games. Some of you will
>
> > say that WJPA and WLSW are small fringe market stations
> and
> > that it is understandable why the are doing it. But what
> > about Rhenda's WPTT.... Its ok for them to do it...It is
> > only AM.
> >
> > What are your thoughts?
> >
> > If you would like to read the complete article go to
> http://www.zwire.com/site/ne>
> ws.cfm?newsid=15700603&BRD=1282&PAG=461&dept_id=182121&rfi=8
>
> >
>
> Here's what Frank Bell meant:
>
> "WOGI isn't gonna waste its time broadcasting a high school
> football game that we can't sell to our other stations.
> Come on, I mean, really! We're a Pittsburgh station, you
> know! Ok, so our COL was moved 30 miles north from the Mon
> Valley. But we're a big city station. We don't worry about
> that small-town crap, like high school football. We worry
> about big-city stuff. You know we have Jimmy Roach.
> Besides, to take WOGI off-line for a single football game
> (!) would reek havoc upon our networking systems. We run a
> very delicate operation of smoke and mirrors, convincing
> Pittsburghers that we're a full-market station when we need
> 5 separate stations to cover the metro. Besides, we're in
> the middle of a book, and I think we can catch Y108 now."
>
> That's what Bell meant.
>
 
Another nail for the COL coffin

What if the politicians in Allegheny County installed a unified metropolitan government across the entire county, as many large cities in America have already done? If that were to happen, then places like McKeesport, Duquense, Braddock, etc. would simply be neighborhoods within one single city.

> There's a fault in the article that started all this.
>
> It made the mistaken impression that the COL for WOGI
> *means* anything. It doesn't. It's just the Wide Spot In
> The Road which got Keymarket a Pittsburgh-market FM signal.
> Period. And that's all it is.
>
> What obligation does WOGI have to carry high school football
> games from the school that serves its COL? Why should it?
>
> The "local service" fiction horse broke free of the barn
> long ago. Does this mean that WPTT should be REQUIRED to
> carry McKeesport games, even though it has a signal that
> serves a few dozen communities throughout the Pittsburgh
> market? How about tiny little WURP...should they be forced
> to carry games out of Braddock?
>
> You get the idea.
>
> Now, it'd be cool if the Local Station carried the Local
> Games, but...COL notwithstanding, WOGI is a Pittsburgh
> market country station. It is not even the "historic
> Duquesne station", as it hasn't been there for more than a
> handful of years.
>
> -OA
>
 
Re: Gotta Agree With The Frog, Here...

It all comes down to $s anymore......

Here's your situation: do you drop your music sweeps, where your stop sets could run as many as 6 :60s, all paid for somehow, in each stopset where there are 2 per hour, or high school football, where there are few timeouts and even then run just :30 (in-game). Also, ad rates for HS football probably run cheaper than regular ROS spots, and you also eliminate any chance of airing a live remote paid for by a client as well. It's a no-brainer from a dollars-and-cents perspective. Smaller stations clamouring for money will go after the sure money, but bigger stations that can easily get bigger money from the regular programming will opt for that every time. That's why Froggy won't air HS football, and the same for CC, Infinity, SCM, or any other Keymarket FM station. They've got bigger fish to fry.

From a programming viewpoint, not very many people outside a community will care who's in the HS finals. People in Pine, Hampton, Beaver Falls, et al, will not care much if Franklin Regional or South Park is playing, so there's very little interest regionally to support airing the games on a big FM station.
I know provincinality reigns here in WestPA, but it doesn't really matter to a programmer who has to make everyone in the region happy.

COL nowadays refers just to where the stick is, not the community it represents. Public files are just to keep a smile on the face of some FCC ham-and-egger who comes around to inspect every so often. And it gives the lawyers something to fall back on when it's license renewal time.
 
> > It does?? I live in Western PA. I can't STAND high school
> > football and I think it's the dumbest thing ever put on
> > television.
>
> But I gather that you didn't grow up here. That's just a
> guess.
>
> Having said that, there's NO WAY i would put a high school
> game on a metro FM. Maybe WJPA, maybe Butler, maybe
> Connelsville, not Froggy.
>
> And what happened to the network that was doing the games on
> 970, aren't they doing them this year?
>
MSA is streaming all four games. It will feed McKeesport Area-Bethlehem Liberty to WPTT and had fed McKeesport Area's previous PIAA games to WPTT and WBGG, respectively.
 
Re: Gotta Agree With The Frog, Here...

> It all comes down to $s anymore......
>
> Here's your situation: do you drop your music sweeps, where
> your stop sets could run as many as 6 :60s, all paid for
> somehow, in each stopset where there are 2 per hour, or high
> school football, where there are few timeouts and even then
> run just :30 (in-game). Also, ad rates for HS football
> probably run cheaper than regular ROS spots, and you also
> eliminate any chance of airing a live remote paid for by a
> client as well. It's a no-brainer from a dollars-and-cents
> perspective. Smaller stations clamouring for money will go
> after the sure money, but bigger stations that can easily
> get bigger money from the regular programming will opt for
> that every time. That's why Froggy won't air HS football,
> and the same for CC, Infinity, SCM, or any other Keymarket
> FM station. They've got bigger fish to fry.
>
> From a programming viewpoint, not very many people outside a
> community will care who's in the HS finals. People in Pine,
> Hampton, Beaver Falls, et al, will not care much if Franklin
> Regional or South Park is playing, so there's very little
> interest regionally to support airing the games on a big FM
> station.
> I know provincinality reigns here in WestPA, but it doesn't
> really matter to a programmer who has to make everyone in
> the region happy.
>
> COL nowadays refers just to where the stick is, not the
> community it represents. Public files are just to keep a
> smile on the face of some FCC ham-and-egger who comes around
> to inspect every so often. And it gives the lawyers
> something to fall back on when it's license renewal time.

I'm very sympathetic to the business arguments, including the format interruption and "whole market" idea.

But let's not forget that Keymarket moved-in to Duquesne, from thirty miles out--and, in the process, took away the Mid Mon Valley's only commercial FM station, as well as its high school football broadcasts (Charleroi Cougars) and community service. It was a fiction invented to permit the move-in. As part of that application, Keymarket had to put forth a facially valid reason for the move: that Duquesne was lacking in local service (the same type of argument they have to make to let 104.3 move-in to Moon).

Now, we all know how laughable that is--Duquesne is more lacking in service than Shadyside. But the FCC granted the application. I think this is just the community saying--"Hey, we went along with this farce. You (Keymarket) said that Duquesne was lacking in local service. High school football is important. So, come one--SERVE US!"

What this probably shows is that Keymarket's not that interested in actually serving Duquesne. Ever been there? Do they seem like country fans?

Unless Keymarket has some pretty good statistics to back up the claim that their local service area (Duquesne) doesn't like high school football on the radio, this may be a pretty good argument for the community come renewal time.

And all it takes is a change in the Commission make-up to stop this type of move-in crap. Public interest is statutory--and the interpretation of same can change with the political winds.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom