Did CBS eliminate the wrong station in 2009?

[wcozBoston]

Should CBS Radio have kept WBCN and eliminated WODS instead in 2009 given that WODS' Oldies format targets an older demographic verses WBCN which targeted a younger audience? Would the Sports Hub have competed for the same listeners as WBCN? Could this have been considered by CBS management in '09?

 

[RedWingCJS278]

WBCN was a shell of its former self, it was time to put it out to pasture. Oldies 103, on the other hand, could still be successful today if they had just remain committed to it and, perhaps, have expanded that ridiculously limited playlist just a bit. Maybe even brought some '50s titles back into the mix. Contrary to what the suits, their laughably flawed methods of research, and their short-sighted advertisers suggest, there are plenty of us in all age groups who enjoy older music. And, more and more, it's the older people who are listening to the radio, and less and less with people under 30. This junk they have on 103 now, it's a loser. Anyone who wants that is already listening to Kiss, or, more likely, they're not listening to the radio at all. Supposedly, this all makes sound business sense, yet the industry continues to choke on its own dust. So, who really knows who has the answers. I don't suspect it's the people who think they have the answers and are in the industry now, however. But I digress ...

 

[ArtSpooner]

I'm an old guy and as one might expect I liked Oldies 103. However my son and daughter, both in their 30s, also miss it. As I remember, when I owned a store, the only station that all of the employees agreed on was Oldies 103. The only ratings I ever see were on this board and I seem to remember them doing fairly well. My problem with them over the years was the limited play list. If you took the top 100 for the 60s and 70s, you'd have 2000 songs. Instead I heard Margaritaville, American Pie, and Brown Eyed Girl every day.

 

[raccoonradio]

It could be a loser but they feel it will make money--even if the younger generation prefers getting music from other sources (maybe they'll tune to 103.3 instead now--or they can lure listeners from Kiss, etc.). Yes the "WBCN Generation" and the classic hits fans of WODS are quite a few (and the latter may well have drifted off to ROR etc) but they feel advertisers will want to
get spots on a station like Amp, just as with similar stations across the country.

A couple prog talkers in the Pacific NW are going sports--KPOJ Portland OR already has (to
CC's Fox Sports) while KFNQ, formerly KPTK, will prob go to CBS Sports on 1/2. On messageboards
fans of libtalk are saying nobody would want to listen to sports, it'll bomb in the ratings. I think they'll be proven wrong. Even if the ratings aren't huge, they will clear a bunch of ads in desirable demos.
Sports reaches a broader audience age-wise and they'd rather advertise to sports fans who
care more about that than politics**...nationwide, the 5 big sports networks may do well in that
respect. Anyway, CHR may not attract our ears but they feel it'll make money. And the quest for the Super Bowl may attract more ears than global warming gab.

**--a post on the Ore. board said the person knew a whole bunch of Democrats. Nobody had heard of KPOJ. He got blank stares. "Well, what do you listen to?," he asked them. --"NPR."

>>that ridiculously limited playlist just a bit.

True that could have helped but I think stations like 60s-70s-80s-WODS (which had the Oldies name for awhile) seemed to do well with the limited playlist. Remember one of their liners?
"You know all the songs." And if you wanted to hear a wider variety, you'd tune in for
Lost 45s. Which has now moved to WROR...along with quite a few of the previous WODS listeners.

I too would have wanted a broader playlist incl. maybe some 50s but the suits felt is was time for a change. And yes some people younger than me (i.e., maybe from 35-49) may have enjoyed
the hits of 60s-70s-80s.

>>Anyone who wants that is already listening to Kiss

That is their theory--going after those listeners. Going after a highly rated station to poach their listeners. Hey, you're the PD of a sleepy station in Cincinnati and you just dumped elevator music for rock and roll. Your nerdy news director points out, "But there are already a lot of rock stations in town"...and you point out, "No, rock and roll is where the money is."

Hence why CBS decided to dump the Beatles and Elton John in favor of Minaj, whomever he,
she, or they are.*

*--No really. I have no idea

 

[raccoonradio]

>> Instead I heard Margaritaville, American Pie, and Brown Eyed Girl every day.

And they did well in the ratings with it...for awhile. Yes, I too wanted more variety. This could be why Mike 93.7 did so well--variety (though it too narrowed its playlist after awhile). But they felt
"you know all the songs" and a very limited playlist would attract people--and advertisers.

Well again if you want their music other stations in town might please you--if you're north of
Boston maybe 104.9 could be a good choice. The suits wanted to trend younger, even if
some in their 30s might enjoy songs from awhile before they were born. (Heck a certain
Boston talk host born in 1952 has said he loved 40s on 4 on SiriusXM... now Holiday Traditions.)

 

[RedWingCJS278]

104.9 is decent. There were more than 250 - 300 songs that were hits in the '60s & '70s that people remember. Problem with the world today is that too many people are fixing what isn't broken. And, maybe they'll make more money in the short-term, but long-term I see the new AMP format failing. You are right about sports, though, hard to go wrong with that format. Though, some have.

 

[ned]

104.9 is decent. There were more than 250 - 300 songs that were hits in the '60s & '70s that people remember. Problem with the world today is that too many people are fixing what isn't broken. And, maybe they'll make more money in the short-term, but long-term I see the new AMP format failing. You are right about sports, though, hard to go wrong with that format. Though, some have.

I agree. North Shore 104.9 is doing classic hits the way it should be. They're not afraid to broaden the playlist while WODS kept it way too tight. WROR could've jumped on the disenfranchised 'ODS listeners but they continue to be BORING...zzzzzzzzz

 

[chitchatjf]

How about a station that plays CHR AND OLDIES?

 

[cjf68]

................Still thought that WZLX should have been changed to the Sports hub (WSHB) and WBCN should have

Survived as a hybrid of classic rock and alternative.....pretty much what WBCN Free form Rock is today.

 

[reelyreal]

... except WZLX is consistently 1 or 2 in men 25-54. It's a cornerstone of the cluster. WBCN was the weakest link. It had sad billing and even worse ratings. It was the logical and correct first station to die.

 

[RedWingCJS278]

Absolutely, it would have been foolish to eliminate WZLX instead of BCN. Theoretically, they could have made some low-key tweaks to ZLX at that time, throwing in some of the more mainstream-sounding, harder-rocking '80s/'90s titles that BCN played. As it is, though, they seem to have done that, to a small extent anyway. I'll hear Guns N' Roses on there while scanning through, and that wasn't the case even just a couple years ago. I wouldn't have a problem with them adding some Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Tool, and other such early '90s in the mix, along with more varied '80s metal titles, but only so as long as their main focus continued to be on the '60s - '70s, and on Zeppelin, Floyd, et al. Furthermore, the early '90s would be the absolute end of the line as far as adding 'new' eras of music. If the day comes when Korn, Creed, and Nickelback are considered 'classic rock,' it'll be time to throw in the towel on the genre. Which isn't to say the rare stray that just fits in - like a 'Seven Nation Army,' a song that could have been released in any era as is - should ever be overlooked, but those type of songs are extremely rare now.

 

[raccoonradio]

>>... except WZLX is consistently 1 or 2 in men 25-54. It's a cornerstone of the cluster. WBCN was the weakest link.

Yes...so what would they have done, put Sports Hub on 100.7 and then told everybody "WZLX
has moved to 104.1!" Instead WBMX was the one chosen to move to 104.1 (ZLX listeners wouldn't have to reset their button), BCN shuttled off to HD subchannels.

Signal range (approx) all fairly good
98.5 : http://radio-locator.com/pats/WBZ_FM_LU.gif off 128 Newton (FM-128)
100.7: http://radio-locator.com/pats/WZLX_FM_LU.gif The Pru
104.1: http://radio-locator.com/pats/WBMX_FM_LU.gif The Pru
and for that matter
103.3: http://radio-locator.com/pats/WODS_FM_LU.gif FM 128 Newton

Newton stick slightly to the west of Pru stick, can give off a bit more to the inland, a bit less
out to the fishies

 

[Uncle Kaimbridge]

I'll hear Guns N' Roses on there while scanning through, and that wasn't the case even just a couple years ago. I wouldn't have a problem with them adding some Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Tool, and other such early '90s in the mix, along with more varied '80s metal titles, but only so as long as their main focus continued to be on the '60s - '70s, and on Zeppelin, Floyd, et al. Furthermore, the early '90s would be the absolute end of the line as far as adding 'new' eras of music. If the day comes when Korn, Creed, and Nickelback are considered 'classic rock,' it'll be time to throw in the towel on the genre.

It isn’t so much the age, it’s the sound: GN'R may be an 80s-90s band, but their sound is pure, rock-solid (sorry, couldn’t resist ;D) late 60s-80s, Hair Band/Power Ballad/Arena Rock ——Led Zepplin, Aerosmith, Boston, Def Leppard, Whitesnake, Journey, etc.——“Classic Rock”.
In contrast, I would consider New Wave/Punk/Grunge——Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, B-52s, The Knack, The Cars——“Classic Alternative”.

 

[wprt949]

The real question is should greater media have brought WBCN in 2009 ?

 

[wcozBoston]

It is unfortunate that WBOQ can not compete for listeners who used to listen to WODS for oldies due to their signal only serving a portion of the market. Their music selection is extensive and most of the music formally played on 103.3 is heard on 104.9. WBOQ could easily greatly expand the playlist and bring some of the same personalities formally with WODS to the air on 104.9. Now if WRBB went to another frequency, maybe they could get a little more wiggle room to move their antenna a little closer to town.

 

[reelyreal]

Now if WRBB went to another frequency, maybe they could get a little more wiggle room to move their antenna a little closer to town.

As a Class D station, WRBB gets no protection. The big station keeping WBOQ from moving closer to Boston is 1st-adjacent WWLI Providence. They're already short-spaced, and the CP to move WBOQ a little more inland with more power and less height is about the best the station will be able to improve.

 

[CTListener]

Their music selection is extensive and most of the music formally played on 103.3 is heard on 104.9. WBOQ could easily greatly expand the playlist and bring some of the same personalities formally with WODS to the air on 104.9.

WBOQ only has two personalities as it is, and they just work weekdays. Nights and weekends are autopilot, not even voicetracked. How do you propose that WBOQ pay the major-market talent you want it to bring in? The station doesn't even show up in the Boston Arbitrons! (I love WBOQ, too, and listen to it whenever I'm up that way, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking it has the potential to be a big player in the Boston market, or even outside its core communities. Deep-playlist oldies is an obsession of oldies geeks and nobody else. The average listener doesn't care how many songs are on the playlist, just as long as he/she knows and likes those songs.)

 

[raccoonradio]

They prob make a modest profit on low cost (for talent). Billboards for the station, and their site, showed nautical scenes with the slogan "fish where the fishes are". In other words, they want north shore businesses to advertise on the station that has Sox baseball (yeah so does 93.7) and "good time favorites". They could do OK just sticking to the North Shore (and how much of that signal,
with a stick in Manchester-by-the-money, goes OUT to the fishes?)

http://www.northshore1049.com/advertising.html

TV ad, maybe for local cable? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YBxtDoGPFUc

It may not show up in ratings but they can do OK (just OK) as a smaller north shore outlet (again to use a fish analogy, big fish in a small pond). Previous formats were classical (the one man Geller operation,
then with the Tangers and maybe an improved signal and presentation) and a kind of swing-jazz
before they settled on 60s-80s...and they probably got a small uptick when WODS went Christmas
each year.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

How do you propose that WBOQ pay the major-market talent you want it to bring in? The station doesn't even show up in the Boston Arbitrons!

It has shown up, on the low end, at certain times of the year, mainly (seemingly) due to bringing Red Sox games to a local FM for the North Shore. Since 93.7 became WEEI-FM with Red Sox and covers the North Shore very well from their Peabody transmitter, that's now redundant.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

The real question is should greater media have brought WBCN in 2009 ?

Couldn't have happened. Greater Media owned the maximum of five stations per band (FM) in the market. WBOS, WTKK, WKLB, WROR and WMJX. And, they wouldn't have wanted to spin any of those off for acquiring WBCN, all of those stations were more successful than the declined WBCN had become by 2009.