DID JACK CAME WITH "DON'T LIKE IT RETURN IT BACK"?

[IanMichael]

Hey what's up people?

...well just "a thought" and a share of a good article...

first my short comment:

Yes Jack NY format as any product should have come with that option, listeners don't like it return it back, no questions ask, "here", there is your former station back, dj's with more time allowed for them to express themselves, some short reflexion about whatever comes to their minds, and improved, less commercials and more songs. A block for weekends with really good oldies! As the President Bush said, "that is not acceptable". Hey Hollander what about saying "1.7 that is not acceptable, I accept full responsibility" this is not going to work!

And a big party at a "dance hall" courtesy of CBS-FM alias "Hollander" with all the nostalgia of those glorious times when "songs mean something and were able to romancing the stone"!

IanMichael

Please read this great article, great analysis and insight from someone who knows very well this product called "JACK":

Richard Laermer, is head of RLM Public Relations, one of the country's best PR firms, and if there's anything a format to replace WCBS-FM needed before, during, and after launch it's one of the country's best PR firms.

Richard, it should be noted, has plenty of JACK-xperience since he has offices in New York and LA, and is a native New Yorker.


Read the complete article at this very informative website: "scroll down"...yeah you got it!

http://www.radiomarketingnexus.com/

Jack Has Spoken – And He’s Done a Piss-Poor Job
by Richard Laermer


Jack as a format beats “In the Still of the Night” played every few hours alongside Elvis’ Greatest and a couple of Doo-Wops in rotation. But you can’t pull the plug without thought to consequences. Not in the city of New York.

New Yorkers are big on loyalty; it’s our badge of honor. In a town when a change is made on subtle notions, much media is brought in way before and the public gets the news in an orderly and hint-filled fashion. That’s why G-d put people like me on earth. We know what it takes to slo-o-owly get everyone on board regarding “something new.” We’d never shove something down anyone’s throat. Uh-uh.

CBS and Jack, uh, chucked the ages-old DJ’s (Chuck Leonard died before this) without a thought to a Bronx cheering population who would not stand by idly as one of its old standards bit the dust without real explanation or forethought.

And what an opportunity lost by Jack.

PR is simple, and when done creatively it can be a beautiful thing. You plan and you act strategically. Figure out what you need from the public and then find the media who can bring it to you. All the Jack-ers needed to do was SELL it in a focused manner. And be respectful! Why not create a loud street party honoring work of long-beloved DJ’s, programmers, even living artists…and, naturally, get the fans of CBS-FM to attend in droves.

Hey, a Photo Opportunity for national media.

Get the Mayor’s office involved – gee, Mike comes to anything with an invitation list. Do a 50’s block party and give out Bobbie socks and Hula-Hoops (promotionally-embroidered). And, voila!, inform everyone that now 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and even the current nameless decade, are going to be a part of the mix in a fabulous, much-hyped play list known as Jack. And the piece d’resistance: tell those city denizens that the most of the country is already onto something that’s been sadly missing in the greatest town on earth. Everyone will be apoplectic that they’re last! Their radios will be pre-tuned.


PLEASE READ THE COMPLETE ARTICLE GO TO:
http://www.radiomarketingnexus.com/

 

[Nate Wesley]

Maybe CBS-FM should've been celebrated before axed...

>
> http://www.radiomarketingnexus.com/
>
> Jack Has Spoken – And He’s Done a Piss-Poor Job
> by Richard Laermer
>
>
> Jack as a format beats “In the Still of the Night” played
> every few hours alongside Elvis’ Greatest and a couple of
> Doo-Wops in rotation. But you can’t pull the plug without
> thought to consequences. Not in the city of New York...
>

>
> PLEASE READ THE COMPLETE ARTICLE GO TO:
> http://www.radiomarketingnexus.com/
>
------------------------
I was just about to post the permalink to this article.

It got me to thinking: What if Infinity had segued into Jack differently? Instead of the shocking flip to generate headlines (which actually generated heat and anger), what if Infinity had taken things slowly and celebrated the eventual end of CBS-FM?

Instead of an instant format flip, Infinity could've announced its eventual decision to end the oldies format on CBS-FM at the end of the year, then make public plans of a 'farewell tour' full of promotions, giveaways, and radio shows--really make it a celebration for the listeners and fans. They could've pimped the hell out of CBS-FM online and WCBS-FM, HD2.

One last hurrah for New Year's Eve and all day New Year's Day (Sunday Sept. 1st, 2006), then segue to Jack 10:11 Monday morning.

That probably would've taken way too long for Infinity's tastes, so adjustments to my time are probably needed to prevent another station/company from making the move first. But since there was always a possibility that 101.1 would move to another younger skewing format, any transition would've gone over much better than the cold turkey approach they did use. As Mr. Laermer spelled out, CBS-FM was a very special case and Infinity didn't handle things as best they could. <P ID="signature">______________
"Not fixing [New Orleans'] levees before Katrina struck will now cost us untold billions. Not resolving the nation's issues of race and class has and will cost us so much more."
--Wynton Marsalis
</P>

 

[FMRadio1]

OK, for the sake of this discussion let's say that Infinity brought back all the old timers for one last shift. Let them wax poetic about the good old days, say their self-indulgent goodbyes, give them all gold watches then pull the plug on oldies. Guess what, the 45+ crowd still would have been upset. It would have changed nothing. Would this audience have given Jack a chance? Of course not. They want to hear the Beatles, three motown songs and Sonny & Cher every hour.

The reason Jack is experiencing the slow start is that Infinity branded WCBS-FM too well over the years. They made the decision way back when to age with the baby boomers and it worked well for many years. However, now that much of that audience has aged out of the 25-54 demo, with more leaving every year and profits dropping along with them, they had to do something drastic. Sugar-coating it would not have made it more palatable. The new format is looking for a completely different demographic of listener. Trying to sell the oldsters on the Jack concept would have been an exercise in futility.

I keep reading on these boards about how Infinity bungled this up, didn't respect the old format and mostly, made a mistake and shouldn't have changed a thing. One question I keep throwing out there that none of the anti-Jack people have successfully answered is this...If Oldies is such a successful format and CBS-FM was so popular, why is it that no other station in the market has picked it up? WPLJ could become WABC-FM tomorrow. Scott Shannon could have retro jingles cut, bring in Harry Harrison, Dan Ingram and Cousin Brucie and resurrect the old WABC of the 60's and 70's. I bet the the ratings would spike into the upper threes 12+, maybe higher. Older New Yorkers would LOVE it! However, it will never happen because they CAN'T SELL IT!!! That's why WPLJ is still a two share Hot AC playing much of the same music as Jack-FM is.

Oldies is a dead format in terms of mainstream radio airplay. All the PR spin in the world would not have softened this blow. Big Band, Beautiful Music and Standards fans have all heard their favorite music disappear from the airwaves once they hit 55. It's now the baby boomer's turn. Once they've all finished with their temper tantrum, things will settle in and Jack will find it's groove. It may sound different in the coming months but the Jack format is here to stay.

--Mike Thomas

> Richard Laermer, is head of RLM Public Relations, one of the
> country's best PR firms, and if there's anything a format to
> replace WCBS-FM needed before, during, and after launch it's
> one of the country's best PR firms.
>
> Richard, it should be noted, has plenty of JACK-xperience
> since he has offices in New York and LA, and is a native New
> Yorker.
>
>
> Jack Has Spoken – And He’s Done a Piss-Poor Job
> by Richard Laermer
>
>
> Jack as a format beats “In the Still of the Night” played
> every few hours alongside Elvis’ Greatest and a couple of
> Doo-Wops in rotation. But you can’t pull the plug without
> thought to consequences. Not in the city of New York.
>
> New Yorkers are big on loyalty; it’s our badge of honor. In
> a town when a change is made on subtle notions, much media
> is brought in way before and the public gets the news in an
> orderly and hint-filled fashion. That’s why G-d put people
> like me on earth. We know what it takes to slo-o-owly get
> everyone on board regarding “something new.” We’d never
> shove something down anyone’s throat. Uh-uh.
>
> CBS and Jack, uh, chucked the ages-old DJ’s (Chuck Leonard
> died before this) without a thought to a Bronx cheering
> population who would not stand by idly as one of its old
> standards bit the dust without real explanation or
> forethought.
>
> And what an opportunity lost by Jack.
>
> PR is simple, and when done creatively it can be a beautiful
> thing. You plan and you act strategically. Figure out what
> you need from the public and then find the media who can
> bring it to you. All the Jack-ers needed to do was SELL it
> in a focused manner. And be respectful! Why not create a
> loud street party honoring work of long-beloved DJ’s,
> programmers, even living artists…and, naturally, get the
> fans of CBS-FM to attend in droves.
>
> Hey, a Photo Opportunity for national media.
>
> Get the Mayor’s office involved – gee, Mike comes to
> anything with an invitation list. Do a 50’s block party and
> give out Bobbie socks and Hula-Hoops
> (promotionally-embroidered). And, voila!, inform everyone
> that now 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and even the current nameless
> decade, are going to be a part of the mix in a fabulous,
> much-hyped play list known as Jack. And the piece
> d’resistance: tell those city denizens that the most of the
> country is already onto something that’s been sadly missing
> in the greatest town on earth. Everyone will be apoplectic
> that they’re last! Their radios will be pre-tuned.
>

 

[RobertGoldberg]

> OK, for the sake of this discussion let's say that Infinity
> brought back all the old timers for one last shift. Let
> them wax poetic about the good old days, say their
> self-indulgent goodbyes, give them all gold watches then
> pull the plug on oldies. Guess what, the 45+ crowd still
> would have been upset. It would have changed nothing.
> Would this audience have given Jack a chance? Of course
> not. They want to hear the Beatles, three motown songs and
> Sonny & Cher every hour.


YES!!! This talk about how badly these well off DJ's were treated is a red herring. These people would still be upset no matter who well they DJ's were treated because their station would still be gone. And this hatred for Jack would have been felt for just about any format that replaced their oldies and their DJ's.

 

[Garrett]

It's not the format, it's the formatic.

I think you need to read my previous post:
http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=546332&Board=nyc



> > OK, for the sake of this discussion let's say that
> Infinity
> > brought back all the old timers for one last shift. Let
> > them wax poetic about the good old days, say their
> > self-indulgent goodbyes, give them all gold watches then
> > pull the plug on oldies. Guess what, the 45+ crowd still
> > would have been upset. It would have changed nothing.
> > Would this audience have given Jack a chance? Of course
> > not. They want to hear the Beatles, three motown songs
> and
> > Sonny & Cher every hour.
>
>
> YES!!! This talk about how badly these well off DJ's were
> treated is a red herring. These people would still be upset
> no matter who well they DJ's were treated because their
> station would still be gone. And this hatred for Jack would
> have been felt for just about any format that replaced their
> oldies and their DJ's.
>

 

[RobertGoldberg]

Re: It's not the format, it's the formatic.

> I think you need to read my previous post:
> http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=546332&Board=nyc

I read your post yesterday. I believe these people who are so upset with Jack would be upset with anything that replaced their oldies and DJ's. Formatics may add to their unhappiness but they would not like Jack anymore if they had dj's and other traditional elements. If Jack replaced all the CBS FM DJ's with other DJ's, these people who still not like it. Cousin Brucie would still be gone as would all the other Oldies DJ's. The Oldies would still be gone. They would still be unhappy.

 

[DjJosB05]

> OK, for the sake of this discussion let's say that Infinity
> brought back all the old timers for one last shift. Let
> them wax poetic about the good old days, say their
> self-indulgent goodbyes, give them all gold watches then
> pull the plug on oldies. Guess what, the 45+ crowd still
> would have been upset. It would have changed nothing.
> Would this audience have given Jack a chance? Of course
> not. They want to hear the Beatles, three motown songs and
> Sonny & Cher every hour.
>
> The reason Jack is experiencing the slow start is that
> Infinity branded WCBS-FM too well over the years. They made
> the decision way back when to age with the baby boomers and
> it worked well for many years. However, now that much of
> that audience has aged out of the 25-54 demo, with more
> leaving every year and profits dropping along with them,
> they had to do something drastic. Sugar-coating it would
> not have made it more palatable. The new format is looking
> for a completely different demographic of listener. Trying
> to sell the oldsters on the Jack concept would have been an
> exercise in futility.
>
> I keep reading on these boards about how Infinity bungled
> this up, didn't respect the old format and mostly, made a
> mistake and shouldn't have changed a thing. One question I
> keep throwing out there that none of the anti-Jack people
> have successfully answered is this...If Oldies is such a
> successful format and CBS-FM was so popular, why is it that
> no other station in the market has picked it up? WPLJ could
> become WABC-FM tomorrow. Scott Shannon could have retro
> jingles cut, bring in Harry Harrison, Dan Ingram and Cousin
> Brucie and resurrect the old WABC of the 60's and 70's. I
> bet the the ratings would spike into the upper threes 12+,
> maybe higher. Older New Yorkers would LOVE it! However, it
> will never happen because they CAN'T SELL IT!!! That's why
> WPLJ is still a two share Hot AC playing much of the same
> music as Jack-FM is.
>
> Oldies is a dead format in terms of mainstream radio
> airplay. All the PR spin in the world would not have
> softened this blow. Big Band, Beautiful Music and Standards
> fans have all heard their favorite music disappear from the
> airwaves once they hit 55. It's now the baby boomer's turn.
> Once they've all finished with their temper tantrum, things
> will settle in and Jack will find it's groove. It may sound
> different in the coming months but the Jack format is here
> to stay.
>
> --Mike Thomas
>

AMEN BROTHER!!! People don't get it, CBS-FM is over DEAL WITH IT!

JC<P ID="signature">______________
"George Bush doesn't like Midgets"
NYC & CT Radio Lover
"KTU needs to change to a current dance format"
<IMG SRC=http://www.staticfiends.com/images/beavis-butthead.jpg width=200 height=170></P>

 

[Garrett]

Re: It's not the format, it's the formatic.

> > I think you need to read my previous post:
> > http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=546332&Board=nyc
>
>
> I read your post yesterday. I believe these people who are
> so upset with Jack would be upset with anything that
> replaced their oldies and DJ's. Formatics may add to their
> unhappiness but they would not like Jack anymore if they had
> dj's and other traditional elements. If Jack replaced all
> the CBS FM DJ's with other DJ's, these people who still not
> like it. Cousin Brucie would still be gone as would all
> the other Oldies DJ's. The Oldies would still be gone.
> They would still be unhappy.
>
Well said, and those people are going to be waiting a very long time.
It goes to show the true colors of the issue.
The Oldies stations that survive sound like CBS FM with a JACK FM Playlist. KOOL 98 in Lubbock TX is a good example. Lots of 70s tunes, a few 60s, and an 80s song every now and then. If you're trying to restore a great name and radio station, I'm with you, and there's a fighting chance.

But if you are simply itchy because there's no 50's and 60's oldies station in NYC, than you are going to be waiting a long time. The 50's and 60's version of that format is OVER, as is Adult Standards. It's done done done, stick a fork in it, finished over and done. And in that case, I really wish those people would step aside. But they have the right to their opinion.

 

[peppertree]

Re: Maybe CBS-FM should've been celebrated before axed...

I heard that Jack was started on competing stations in three markets one day before the format was to be changed because word got out. What you say worked with WABC in 1982. WABC had an all oldies weekend celebrating their years as musicradio 77. Then on Tuesday morning, Ron Lundy and Dan Ingram did a farewell show.

That kind of stuff will not work today.

> >
> > http://www.radiomarketingnexus.com/
> >
> > Jack Has Spoken – And He’s Done a Piss-Poor Job
> > by Richard Laermer
> >
> >
> > Jack as a format beats “In the Still of the Night” played
> > every few hours alongside Elvis’ Greatest and a couple of
> > Doo-Wops in rotation. But you can’t pull the plug without
> > thought to consequences. Not in the city of New York...
> >
>
> >
> > PLEASE READ THE COMPLETE ARTICLE GO TO:
> > http://www.radiomarketingnexus.com/
> >
> ------------------------
> I was just about to post the permalink to this article.
>
> It got me to thinking: What if Infinity had segued into Jack
> differently? Instead of the shocking flip to generate
> headlines (which actually generated heat and anger), what if
> Infinity had taken things slowly and celebrated the eventual
> end of CBS-FM?
>
> Instead of an instant format flip, Infinity could've
> announced its eventual decision to end the oldies format on
> CBS-FM at the end of the year, then make public plans of a
> 'farewell tour' full of promotions, giveaways, and radio
> shows--really make it a celebration for the listeners and
> fans. They could've pimped the hell out of CBS-FM online
> and WCBS-FM, HD2.
>
> One last hurrah for New Year's Eve and all day New Year's
> Day (Sunday Sept. 1st, 2006), then segue to Jack 10:11
> Monday morning.
>
> That probably would've taken way too long for Infinity's
> tastes, so adjustments to my time are probably needed to
> prevent another station/company from making the move first.
> But since there was always a possibility that 101.1 would
> move to another younger skewing format, any transition
> would've gone over much better than the cold turkey approach
> they did use. As Mr. Laermer spelled out, CBS-FM was a
> very special case and Infinity didn't handle things as best
> they could.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[BruceS8852]

Re: Maybe CBS-FM should've been celebrated before axed...

On an interview on CNBC in June Joel Hollander said that the format flip was a stealth operation and thus there could not be any farewell show. Since the DJs were being paid until the end of June, the station could have broken format for a few hours for a farewell show. When the country music ended on 103.5 FM in 1996, everyone was grateful for the farewell show. If the format change was done with dignity and class, many former CBS-FM listeners in the prized 25-54 demo would have at least sampled the Jack format.
They may have listened to the station as their second or third station. I would say that very few former WCBS-FM people listen to Jack. This is one of the reasons for the low ratings. They had to start out from scratch. It took Infinity years to build WNEW-FM to a 2.1 rating. When will they pull the plug on Jack?

Bruce
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bw on 09/25/05 11:17 PM.</FONT></P>