Didja ever notice?

[Fenway Frank]

That when a station flips, they go all out with an over the top, massive playlist of the newly designated format. At this point the stations usually sound great. Stunting, vamping whatever you want to call it. They attract some attention and garner listeners. No inane chatter, lots of music and not the same 20 songs over and over.

Then after the first book and see they are gaining a little ground (not enough for corporate america) they get scared and bring in the consultants. These consultants offer tips to change the station and they start cutting back or altering the playlist. And the stations no longer sound like they did. They sound like everyone else and start lose ground again.

Usually listeners start to recieve phone calls from market researchers. "Do you like this song?" and play a short bite of it. (After 30 bites it gets a bit much.... ) The problem with this is that the Market researchers are interns or $5 an hour folks. They call the same people over and over again just to get a contact. My name got on one of these lists and I would get a call once a week for a year asking if I had time to go over the music. But I digress.....

So my point is... when you flip a format, shouldn't it be the way you want (musically speaking) out of the gate? I was really into DAVE FM when it flipped. Really fit my demo and sounded pretty good. I put up with Barnes and everyone else because of the music. Until I heard Norah Jones "Don't know why". OK, change is in the wind and Buh-bye you lost me. I really liked the River too, but enough with the same Elton John songs... You know the Stones did more than just Brown Sugar.

I must really be el stoopido here. Obviously these corporate programming monsters know far about what a listener wants more than the actual listener does. Just look at how great the industry is doing compared to Ipod, CD's, Satellite radio. Radio offers more (immediacy, news, tx, wx concert info etc) than any of them and we are willing to put up with a spot or two, if the music or content is worth my time.

 

[AMCM]

Someone else can come along and remind us all that radio is a business and blah blah blah...

I'm with you about Dave. I used to be a big defender of Dave, even when it started to sound like Michele Angle's iPod. When Wheeler (god bless this beautiful man) took over the station made some subtle changes and my faith returned. I hoped it would last, but it seems Wheeler has decided to destroy the station.

No offense to Zakk, but come on. What is this garbage of a morning show? Bacon eating contests are the biggest thing to happen on the show since its inception? Come with me next time I go to the Majestic and I'll show you a bacon eating contest. Mara seems bored, Sully is barely holding his own, Margot doesn't seem to want to be on the air, and one of the few guys in Atlanta who has any talent is on in the middle of the night! Put Orf back in the mornings or switch him and Sully.

I used to say you guys are crazy to say Dave will flip. Well, now I hope it does and they get a PD in there who gives a d*mn about the music and what listeners want. I said it before, I worked with Wheeler a while back and the guy doesn't give a fart about his employees, just his paycheck. I'd love to see Dave back the way it was at the beginning or even when Angle was let go and Margot was able to change the music up.

 

[jal41]

Music Choice, the commercial free music service for cable and satellite providers, has also begun shrinking their playlists on their channels. It is not common to hear a song one day, and then tune in again the next day to hear the exact same song, and then to hear it again the next day...on the same channel. I have heard that Sirius and XM also have shrunken playlists.

It sounds like there people do prefer smaller playlists with familiar popular hits than large ones with unfamiliar songs. I am sure everyone would love to see the research for themselves. I don't get why people don't like variety...but I guess the research shows otherwise.

 

[Biz Listener]

Someone else can come along and remind us all that radio is a business and blah blah blah...

The thing is, the fact that radio is a business is no excuse for running a station badly. How many times does some hired-gun consultant have to destroy a good station with their over-researched ideas that usually fail before someone in the business of radio comes to the realization that using hired-gun consultants is not necessarily a good business idea?

 

[bnaivar]

Those that cannot do, COACH.

Those that can't make it on the air CONSULT (?)

 

[Biz Listener]

Those that cannot do, COACH.

Those that can't make it on the air CONSULT (?)

Great slogans. They're total hogwash, but they sound good.

The truth is, most of the best coaches in history were not superstar athletes. The best coaches were former players who lacked natural talent, and who instead had to acquire lots of knowledge.

Likewise, the skill set needed to know what selection of songs to put on the air, and in what sequence is one talent. Having a good set of pipes is another. Anyone who has a good speaking voice can be trained to read liner cards.

Knowing how to read a book doesn't mean you can write a book. Just like knowing how to program the music on a radio station doesn't mean you have to know how to sing or play an instrument.

 

[RAD1]

Someone else can come along and remind us all that radio is a business and blah blah blah...

I'm with you about Dave. I used to be a big defender of Dave, even when it started to sound like Michele Angle's iPod. When Wheeler (god bless this beautiful man) took over the station made some subtle changes and my faith returned. I hoped it would last, but it seems Wheeler has decided to destroy the station.

No offense to Zakk, but come on. What is this garbage of a morning show? Bacon eating contests are the biggest thing to happen on the show since its inception? Come with me next time I go to the Majestic and I'll show you a bacon eating contest. Mara seems bored, Sully is barely holding his own, Margot doesn't seem to want to be on the air, and one of the few guys in Atlanta who has any talent is on in the middle of the night! Put Orf back in the mornings or switch him and Sully.

I used to say you guys are crazy to say Dave will flip. Well, now I hope it does and they get a PD in there who gives a d*mn about the music and what listeners want. I said it before, I worked with Wheeler a while back and the guy doesn't give a fart about his employees, just his paycheck. I'd love to see Dave back the way it was at the beginning or even when Angle was let go and Margot was able to change the music up.

Unfortunatley, there are a lot of PDs like that existing in the corporate world. They play with selector, collect a paycheck and go home. Some don't want to, some don't care to AND some aren't allowed to make decisions even in their position. They're content with just implementing the "coporate ideal."

 

[davideduardo]

That when a station flips, they go all out with an over the top, massive playlist of the newly designated format.

Almost every launch I have done and the ones I have heard start with only the very strongest songs, and few of them, and build out over time.

Then after the first book and see they are gaining a little ground (not enough for corporate america) they get scared and bring in the consultants. These consultants offer tips to change the station and they start cutting back or altering the playlist. And the stations no longer sound like they did. They sound like everyone else and start lose ground again.

In my experience, the consultant is hired to help with the launch

Usually listeners start to recieve phone calls from market researchers. "Do you like this song?" and play a short bite of it. (After 30 bites it gets a bit much.... ) The problem with this is that the Market researchers are interns or $5 an hour folks.

A minimum wage person can not play a song and get a score? Does it take a masters to do that?

They call the same people over and over again just to get a contact. My name got on one of these lists and I would get a call once a week for a year asking if I had time to go over the music. But I digress.....

Once a week and 52 times shows a station that has no clue. If a station does callbacks, called a panel they usually only use a certain percent panel each call cycle and usually discard a panelist after 3 to 5 repeats.

So my point is... when you flip a format, shouldn't it be the way you want (musically speaking) out of the gate?

Probably not. Better to only play the top, top songs. Get people to know the core and what you stand for. Then expand a bit.

I must really be el stoopido here. Obviously these corporate programming monsters know far about what a listener wants more than the actual listener does.

Radio stations come in bad, average and good. But most of us know that we ask the listener, and incorporate the listener's wants into what we do.

 

[Biz Listener]

Radio stations come in bad, average and good. But most of us know that we ask the listener, and incorporate the listener's wants into what we do.

The problem is that while consultants might know how to get people who really like tight playlists to switch from one station to another, they don't know how to prevent people from choosing alternatives to radio. Everything I've ever read indicates that overall, total listenership of radio in general is in a steady decline as increasing numbers of people switch to statelite or devices that play listener-selected recorded music. The ratings are cooked in such a way that a station that loses two listeners to iPods and in-dash CD players for every one it gains from a competing station still looks like a winner.

I had to drive to Augusta yesterday. I was able to find some strong stations that played the formats I like, but I was just sick and tired of hearing the same "hits" over and over and over, so I plunked a CD into the slot. I think I'm going to do that more often. I had forgotten how many really good songs were on ZOSO besides just Stairway to Heaven.

 

[Fenway Frank]

Senor Eduardo,

Your comments are most appreciated.

This may be so with stations hiring consultants. But why would you go out, interview many people, ask them what they would do to change the station, hire them and then bring in someone else who know's better? Wouldn't you just hire the guy, whom you believe is knowledgeable on the topic? I mean wouldn't this undermine the new PD from the start and create a bad work relationship. I know that I would feel like I am unwanted if I were just relegated to scheduling manager and hatchet man when you need to fire a jock. No PD's needed. Just hire an Ops Mgr. and a consultant.


As far as the state of the industry.....
Radio used to be a funny, quirky little business that made some money. While the piece of advertising dollar pie changed from year to year, you still made some money and had good cash flow. It was never about 20% growth which Wall St. needs to have to be considered successful. IMHO, The downfall of this business has been public trading. It's all about profit. This means cutting expenses. Not generating a better product. Cut talent, hire cheaper guys, voice track, cut promotions and advertising all to be profitable. How about making better french fries to go with that hamburger?

I think some companies are figuring out that the Stockholders are holding a larger share of control than they would like. Consider that ClearChannel and Cumulus guys sure have figured this out. With the attempts to go private all over again.

 

[agentUrge]

I work in interactive development so I have to ask if radio station track the number of hits they get on their "Listen Live" links? Obviously it's not going to be the be-all-end-all of reporting since you can only count office workers, students, etc with that. But it should tell them something. What's the average hit count on this station at 11am compared to another...how long are they listening? It can all be tracked..and many sites have the min-survey that tells stations how old they are, their zip code, etc.

Further, if a station isn't doing all that well...what causes management to go experimental? For example, 99x or JackFM. Based on the 99x story, they changed the format almost right before they went on the air (much to the dismay of the administration)..but it worked, albeit for a few years. With that in mind, do things have to be desperate for the station that's circling the drain or do things have to be really good with the sister stations in order to take such a risk?

 

[davideduardo]

The problem is that while consultants might know how to get people who really like tight playlists to switch from one station to another, they don't know how to prevent people from choosing alternatives to radio.

There have always been alterntives to radio; the "death of radio" predicted after the TV freeze was lifted in 1952 was based on an alternative way of spending leisure time. Of course, in 1952 Top 40 was created and radio survived TV.

There is a lot more than TV out there today, and it's only loigical that radio will lose more audience now than, let's say, when the cassete recorder was developed. But radio usage is still very strong. But we can't necessarily stop people from doing things that radio can not provide for.

Everything I've ever read indicates that overall, total listenership of radio in general is in a steady decline as increasing numbers of people switch to statelite or devices that play listener-selected recorded music.

It's a very slow decline, not an "over the cliff" sort of thing, and it started in 1988 or 1989... way before satellite and iPods. Think 500 channels of cable, gaming, etc.

The ratings are cooked in such a way that a station that loses two listeners to iPods and in-dash CD players for every one it gains from a competing station still looks like a winner.

You are right and you are wrong. Programmers, and thus, these boards, focus on share; we shouldn't do that any more. Buyers focus on ratings points, so they see instantly if radio usage or particular stations are losing ground. Rates are based on points for agency sales, so you can say the advertisers look at what we have, not what we do not have.

I had to drive to Augusta yesterday. I was able to find some strong stations that played the formats I like, but I was just sick and tired of hearing the same "hits" over and over and over, so I plunked a CD into the slot.

There are people like you (and me, too!) who do enjoy depth. Unfortunately, most people react to deep lists in the PPM world by changing stations when the less familiar or less powerful cuts come on. Radio is a mass medium, and in most cases and most markets can not provide service to the more open to unfamiliarity listener.

 

[Kabrich]

I work in interactive development so I have to ask if radio station track the number of hits they get on their "Listen Live" links? Obviously it's not going to be the be-all-end-all of reporting since you can only count office workers, students, etc with that. But it should tell them something. What's the average hit count on this station at 11am compared to another...how long are they listening? It can all be tracked..and many sites have the min-survey that tells stations how old they are, their zip code, etc.

Yes, of course this all is tracked. It has to be to pay the required performance fees.

 

[agentUrge]

Please tell me that they use it to determine listenership.

 

[davideduardo]

Please tell me that they use it to determine listenership.

In the PPM markets, Arbitron determines listenership to any medium (on air, HD-1, HD-2, HD-3, streams, etc) by encoding each one so the Portable People meter can detect them. As of next week, "other" (meaning non-terrestrial analog transmitters) will be reported in the PPM data.

Almost no web (or iPhone or whatever) streams qualify for addition to the terrestrial station stream, so they will be reported separately, if, as I assume, they meet the MRS threshold.

 

[agentUrge]

Almost no web (or iPhone or whatever) streams qualify for addition to the terrestrial station stream, so they will be reported separately, if, as I assume, they meet the MRS threshold.

A smart GM would probably want to make use of the ability to track online listeners.

I'd be interested to see the numbers for online listenership.